Why Xbox Live isn't free?

[Angel Blue01]

The fact that Xbox Live isn't free is why I eventually sold it.

I don't want to play online, but without the service the machine is useless.

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

i prefer the fee of XBL, if it was free, then there would be alot more problems, both with the playerbase/network

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

i prefer the fee of XBL, if it was free, then there would be alot more problems, both with the playerbase/network

I'm interested to hear what problems you think there would be?

[Ayepecks]

I'm pretty sure one of them is fairly obvious -- he's implying that if someone is paying for something they're more likely to want to actually use it and not abuse the program or simply pay to grief people. If there is no price, then people could just be jerks and grief for no reason, as it would be no problem to them.

As for the network, I think he means there'd be slowdowns with Xbox Live download services and such. Not sure if that'd actually be true.

[magik]

The fact that Xbox Live isn't free is why I eventually sold it.

I don't want to play online, but without the service the machine is useless.

How does that make any sense? If you don't want to play online, then you're all set with everything else with a basic Silver membership. :huh:

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

I'm pretty sure one of them is fairly obvious -- he's implying that if someone is paying for something they're more likely to want to actually use it and not abuse the program or simply pay to grief people. If there is no price, then people could just be jerks and grief for no reason, as it would be no problem to them.

As for the network, I think he means there'd be slowdowns with Xbox Live download services and such. Not sure if that'd actually be true.

Oh cmon, the place is ridden with griefers as it is. That shouldn't be a reason to keep charging. They exist and will exist everywhere. Heck there was a topic in here recently showing off warning ratings on Live, and people were saying they haven't done one thing wrong yet people have been rating them down because they're idiots (or annoyed they got beat in a game, stuff like that).

However I blame the matchmaking system for that personally - Putting me with random people each time increases my chances of coming across 5 year olds with potty mouths. As opposed to being able to regular on specific servers.

That's the PC gamer in me though. I've played about 150 hours on TF2 now, and that probably spans over 2-4 servers with frequent regulars.

It's ok though if you have plently of 360 friends to fill a team with though...

MS can easily cope with expanding the network if it gets more popular. They would be loving that, more downloading = more people buying things.

[Ayepecks]

I have only encountered one griefer throughout my entire Xbox Live experience. When I was at college, I didn't pay for Xbox Live because I didn't use it at all. Over the summer, sure I'll pay for it because I have more time and it's a good environment. I don't think the cost is outrageous in any matter of thinking. It's not like you're paying for one game, as with an MMO -- which costs just as much, and normally more.

The rating system really doesn't matter on Live, so I don't see the big deal. People rate me down for no reason, but it doesn't matter because all my friends rated me up, and in the end the rating system doesn't do a single thing except avoid users you prefer or avoid. It's a nice feature. I avoid people who quit on me, so I don't see them again.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

I have only encountered one griefer throughout my entire Xbox Live experience. When I was at college, I didn't pay for Xbox Live because I didn't use it at all. Over the summer, sure I'll pay for it because I have more time and it's a good environment. I don't think the cost is outrageous in any matter of thinking. It's not like you're paying for one game, as with an MMO -- which costs just as much, and normally more.

The rating system really doesn't matter on Live, so I don't see the big deal. People rate me down for no reason, but it doesn't matter because all my friends rated me up, and in the end the rating system doesn't do a single thing except avoid users you prefer or avoid. It's a nice feature. I avoid people who quit on me, so I don't see them again.

So you've just said you've hardly come across griefers and the rating system doesn't really matter.... :blink:

But above you were saying they should keep charging to prevent griefers? :/

Am I picking up something you've said wrongly?

[Coldgunner]

maybe they should introduce a feature that only allows matchmaking with players of a certain rating and above.

that way tards are with tards and gamers with gamers

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Putting me with random people each time increases my chances of coming across 5 year olds with potty mouths. As opposed to being able to regular on specific servers.

That's not how match making works, you are set up with people of equal or similar ranks for instance or have similar gaming groups (pro, underground etc). It would be perfectly possible to create a server browser which allows you to choose and join specific servers, but there is obviously a reason behind choosing match making..

maybe they should introduce a feature that only allows matchmaking with players of a certain rating and above.

that way tards are with tards and gamers with gamers

That is already the case now

[CY:G]

They should let people run their own servers, that works out just dandy on the PC, high speed computers with solid internet connections, its free, the owners and donators pay for the server, it works out great. Sometimes i get pings of 10 on dedicated servers, thats almost the speed of a local connection. (LAN)

Either that or use dedicated servers for the games, i just don't feel like paying for live when i know it all works in P2P. What the hell am i paying for, match making??? i get that for free with Xfire/Steam, i also get stats, profiles, clan making, etc.

[Xero]

says the man with an apple and ps3 logo in his sig...SMH

Obviously, I think my opinions reflect why I use the hardware I do. Microsoft is a slimy company, they are out to make as much money as possible rather than deliver the users what they want. Its them first, consumers second. I personally don't have a problem with Xbox Live or its cost I think its pretty damn cheap. Its just the fact that if you pay for something you shouldn't be forced to see stupid ads, that type of stuff is for trial applications, not free or paid for software. No 1st party programs in OS X have ads, and the majority of 3rd party ones don't either, and there aren't any ads on the PS3, even in the Playstation store, everything just showcases content you can get within the store.

What pushed me over the edge was last weekend when I was playing Battlefield with my brother on his xbox and I saw an ad on his dashboard for Subway, everything prior was 360 accessories, while being annoying it at least made sense, but the Subway one was purely based off Microsoft getting paid off by Subway to put their ads in every 360 owners face, and thats not fair. Microsoft does the same on windows with messenger, force users to get patches just to remove the ads they load it up with.

Hate Microsoft much? How does this even relate to Windows? And Windows failing? In your dreams. :rolleyes:

In my dreams, hah. Look at the Vista adoption rate. Its already being labelled Microsoft worst os, over windows me. Windows as a whole might not be dropping at an alarming rate, but it certainly isn't growing. Once you go up, you must come down, and they are going to come down hard.

[Coldgunner]

They should let people run their own servers, that works out just dandy on the PC, high speed computers with solid internet connections, its free, the owners and donators pay for the server, it works out great. Sometimes i get pings of 10 on dedicated servers, thats almost the speed of a local connection. (LAN)

Either that or use dedicated servers for the games, i just don't feel like paying for live when i know it all works in P2P. What the hell am i paying for, match making??? i get that for free with Xfire/Steam, i also get stats, profiles, clan making, etc.

I'm guessing little johnny "1337k1d n00bb145t3r" McNoob decides to play on live (or PSN) and unitentionally host the game, while little miss McNoob is in the room next door dloading all kinds of craptacular stuff for ipod and talking to their spotty boyfriend via webcam. Causing a truly lagtastic experience.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

I'm guessing little johnny "1337k1d n00bb145t3r" McNoob decides to play on live (or PSN) and unitentionally host the game, while little miss McNoob is in the room next door dloading all kinds of craptacular stuff for ipod and talking to their spotty boyfriend via webcam. Causing a truly lagtastic experience.

Does that happen your household like? :rofl:

[magik]

Obviously, I think my opinions reflect why I use the hardware I do. Microsoft is a slimy company, they are out to make as much money as possible rather than deliver the users what they want. Its them first, consumers second. I personally don't have a problem with Xbox Live or its cost I think its pretty damn cheap. Its just the fact that if you pay for something you shouldn't be forced to see stupid ads, that type of stuff is for trial applications, not free or paid for software. No 1st party programs in OS X have ads, and the majority of 3rd party ones don't either, and there aren't any ads on the PS3, even in the Playstation store, everything just showcases content you can get within the store.

Do you even own an Xbox? What are you basing this off? In all my years of being a Live subscriber (since the original Xbox), I have never seen an ad that was not related to something available on the Xbox Live Marketplace.

And, boo-hoo, Microsoft is trying to make money?! How dare they! :o

[Coldgunner]

Does that happen your household like? :rofl:

no fortunately, but I know it happens!

[magik]

Does that happen your household like? :rofl:

Does this your English is? :p

[Coldgunner]

Does this your English is? :p

nope, he's scotch :p

[BajiRav]

In my dreams, hah. Look at the Vista adoption rate. Its already being labelled Microsoft worst os, over windows me. Windows as a whole might not be dropping at an alarming rate, but it certainly isn't growing. Once you go up, you must come down, and they are going to come down hard.

You need stop believing everything you read on the internet - especially Neowin Apple section, digg and slashdot. :/

And there are not ads in default Windows install. Windows Live is another story. I am kind of curious about the Subway ad though, I haven't seen any ad which doesn't related to either new games or content in XBLM

[Xero]

^^ Heh, Neowin is the only site I view listed and even then its very rarely the apple section, my post count there will confirm that. And I didn't mean a default install, I meant 1st party apps that are free. As for the Subway ad, I only saw it twice and it was last weekend. Normally they are ads for steering wheels, headsets, ect.

Do you even own an Xbox? What are you basing this off? In all my years of being a Live subscriber (since the original Xbox), I have never seen an ad that was not related to something available on the Xbox Live Marketplace.

And, boo-hoo, Microsoft is trying to make money?! How dare they! :o

Try reading the second paragraph.. As far as your lack of vision, you must not play your xbox very much. I use it once a week and I see the ads. And I don't have a problem with Microsoft trying to make money, I have a problem with them putting that before the consumer. Look at Apples success over the last few years, they put the consumer first and look where it got them. I just find it offensive Microsoft would abuse their position to put ads on the dashboard after you've paid good money for the console, and XBL membership.

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

yes i mean both of what was said, with the " a%$hats " there would end up being more of them if it was free, with the rating system out the window due to widely available free email, just do whatever and create a new account ( with current system they can create another account, but would have another charge tacked on, and im shure that multiple accounts with same CC# will make MS wonder, let alone ability to Ban ID's based on card if it gets really bad.

If the service was free, the network would be slower, and down more often, reason why its up alot is because people are paying for it. let alone the occasional free stuff when it comes back up.

Personally i prefer the Fee Vs a Free Model

The Ads dont bother me, sometimes there are some things that i see on the ads that i will download ( Terminator:SCC, Game Ad-Ons, variousothercrapthatidontneedbutbuyanywaybecauseimbored

[magik]

Try reading the second paragraph.. As far as your lack of vision, you must not play your xbox very much. I use it once a week and I see the ads. And I don't have a problem with Microsoft trying to make money, I have a problem with them putting that before the consumer. Look at Apples success over the last few years, they put the consumer first and look where it got them. I just find it offensive Microsoft would abuse their position to put ads on the dashboard after you've paid good money for the console, and XBL membership.

Once a week? I play almost daily and I have never seen an irrelevant ad.

And Apple puts the consumer first?? Right, yea, by making overpriced short-life products that require expensive out-of-warranty repair fees? Hardly putting the consumer first. I'm sure many would agree here. That doesn't mean I don't like Apple, I'm willing to put up with their pricing and policies because I enjoy their products and find them superior, but please don't go and cry thief against Microsoft and not Apple/Sony when all companies are really just looking to make a profit. In all honesty, you're defining the word fanboy when you make comments like that.

[Huleboeren]

Hmm

Interesting thread

..:p

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Once a week? I play almost daily and I have never seen an irrelevant ad.

And Apple puts the consumer first?? Right, yea, by making overpriced short-life products that require expensive out-of-warranty repair fees? Hardly putting the consumer first. I'm sure many would agree here. That doesn't mean I don't like Apple, I'm willing to put up with their pricing and policies because I enjoy their products and find them superior, but please don't go and cry thief against Microsoft and not Apple/Sony when all companies are really just looking to make a profit. In all honesty, you're defining the word fanboy when you make comments like that.

QFT

And I've also never seen an ad which isn't related to the 360 in some way, be it headsets, upcoming games or DLC from Marketplace.

[Ayepecks]

^^ Heh, Neowin is the only site I view listed and even then its very rarely the apple section, my post count there will confirm that. And I didn't mean a default install, I meant 1st party apps that are free. As for the Subway ad, I only saw it twice and it was last weekend. Normally they are ads for steering wheels, headsets, ect.

Try reading the second paragraph.. As far as your lack of vision, you must not play your xbox very much. I use it once a week and I see the ads. And I don't have a problem with Microsoft trying to make money, I have a problem with them putting that before the consumer. Look at Apples success over the last few years, they put the consumer first and look where it got them. I just find it offensive Microsoft would abuse their position to put ads on the dashboard after you've paid good money for the console, and XBL membership.

What are you talking about? I use both Apple and Microsoft products for school (both operating systems, software from both), and to say either one puts the consumer ahead is bullcrap. Both are in it to make money. Apple's hardware is conveniently outdated within a few months, as they always seem to release the latest and greatest stuff in increments rather than all at once (yes, I am aware that all technology gets outdated frequently, but Apple takes it to a whole different level, and you know what I mean when I say that). They also have new "versions" of their operating system (OSX) that amount to little more than a service pack and cost just as much money as a new OS.

Microsoft, meanwhile, has made some hardware that has significant flaws (the 360) or is just outdated (the Zune). As far as Vista goes -- I have yet to have a system crash. At all. There are some problems with Vista, but the grief it gets is way overboard. The advertisements on Xbox Live are almost always relevant, as magik has said. I'd still prefer not to have them too and open up room for more features, but it's not an eyesore in any way, and it helps users become aware of big-name new content. I don't really have a problem with that.

So you've just said you've hardly come across griefers and the rating system doesn't really matter.... :blink:

But above you were saying they should keep charging to prevent griefers? :/

Am I picking up something you've said wrongly?

What are you talking about?

I don't consider a griefer someone who rates someone else poorly. How on earth is that griefing? And, yes, above I did say that charging theoretically should prevent griefers. And, no, technically the rating system does not matter. All it does is make people avoided or preferred so you'll play with them more or less. Your rating does absolutely nothing other than that.

I don't understand what you're saying at all.