I am Reid Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 ERm....all 360's have a HDMI port now. It's been like that for over a year (And I'm sure that when they switched from Core to Arcade, all Arcades has HDMI ports). yeah, I bought my arcade right when they came out well over a year ago and it is the exact same thing as the pro and elite, just minus the HDD. It will say right on the box "HDMI". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashing Pumpkin Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 No, no, no and NO. And once again, NO! Why do people complain about the lower end models, does it make you feel better because you have the Elite, or Pro? I bought an Arcade and I'm peeeerrrrrfectly happy with it. Stop raining on everyone's parade :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiCKX Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Arcades are awesome,cheaper and you get the same graphic quality..it's no loss.Same 360.. FFS. So it's an alternative.A GOOD one since this isn't the lame CORE we talk about,it has HDMI and a 256 MB mem. card. I have a Premium,but I only use the HDD space for Gears of War 2 install since this franchise got over 50% of my 360 game time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massiveterra Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 how come it seems like everyone forgot about the $20 20 GB HDD for XBOX Arcade owners only? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mystic MVC Posted December 31, 2008 MVC Share Posted December 31, 2008 how come it seems like everyone forgot about the $20 20 GB HDD for XBOX Arcade owners only? I think a lot of people know about this, rather arguing why there was an arcade in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kushan Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 That's not for Arcade users, it's for Core users who didn't buy a big enough Memory Card. Arcade users had a memory card big enough (256Mb). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aahz Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 You can purchase an Arcade unit right now (as in the brand new Jasper with Sega Superstars Tennis and some arcade titles tossed in for good measure) for $199.99 and use the memory upgrade program to purchase a 20gb HDD for $29.99 ($19.99 for the older units) and it even comes with 3 months of Live Gold. So you can get a Jasper revision Arcade pack ($200), a 20gb HDD ($30), and a full-priced game ($60) all for just less than the $299 model with the 60gb HDD and it even comes with $20 worth of the Live service. It's not 60gb and it is refurbished but it's also not $100 more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanManIt Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Arcade is definitely an alternative for gamers on a tight budget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Warwagon MVC Posted January 1, 2009 MVC Share Posted January 1, 2009 Even though you can buy an add-on with a hard drive .I think its retarded every xbox doesn't come with a hard drive built in. Its only hurting the developers who now have to develop a game as if the xbox doesn't have a hard drive . Its holding developers back. They have to program with "what if" in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skulltrail Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 If you want to give someone an Xbox 360 as a gift but want to spend the least amount of money, the Arcade is the ideal choice. I bought it because it was the cheapest. I could get all the crap Pro has later on. (not that I need a mic, but I do need an HDD...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kushan Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 Even though you can buy an add-on with a hard drive .I think its retarded every xbox doesn't come with a hard drive built in. Its only hurting the developers who now have to develop a game as if the xbox doesn't have a hard drive . Its holding developers back. They have to program with "what if" in mind. The only thing the hard drive can be used for is caching data. Ergo, all the developer really has to do is put in a couple of IF statements here and there, sort of a... IF (Xbox has hardrive AND data has been cached) { Load data from Hard drive } else { Load from DVD IF(Xbox has hard drive) { Cache data to the disk } } It's not quite as simple as this and other factors are involved, but that's about it as far as developers go. Just a lot of them tend to not bother and load straight from the DVD since it's pretty fast anyway. You can usually tell the games that do it the "better" way because they tend to not perform much better (or actually perform worse) when you use the NXE's hard drive install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smigit Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 But the reason that caching is as far as developers go is because there isn't a HDD as standard. Had there been a hard disk in every unit they potentially could have gone further. For instance I'd imagine a game where the primary focus is around a user designing their own content where said content would result in large file sizes of several megs or more would be a very risky game to produce if you know that a large portion of the xbox community only has a 256meg memory card. I know games do let you create maps and stuff but it's usually a side feature as opposed to being the primary mechanic. SO I agree with Warwagon. People currently don't need a HDD because the developers can't really make much use of one because so many systems don't have it. Had it been there developers could have made use of them in different ways to what they are currently and thus those that currently think it isn't needed may be saying something different given the games they are playing would be using it in some advanterous way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshBluebird Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 But the reason that caching is as far as developers go is because there isn't a HDD as standard. Had there been a hard disk in every unit they potentially could have gone further. Yeah, we would see what is happening with the PS3 where some games have a mandatory install. I'm glad I don't have to mess around with that. The reason I like consoles is because I can just pop the game in and it plays right away, not waiting for installing. Although that debate is for another thread, and has been done to death before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smigit Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 (edited) Yeah, we would see what is happening with the PS3 where some games have a mandatory install. HDD's have other uses too but. What about a music creation game where a user uses a microphone to record audio? Not a karaokee game where you can throw away the audio after but one designed for the creation of audio files. How will that work if users don't have adequate storage for the files given after only a few songs memory card owners will be hitting a wall? Or what about a game centered around the editing of video clips that you import from somewhere else? Same issue as the music but you then are dealing with even larger file sizes. I know users need a memory card to save data currently but that works because a) Most games save data is small b) Many games only allow up to like 3 saves anyway and many users if given the option will use a single save file all the way through Both the above lead to a game not having large memory requirements. Throw in importing custom multimedia content or something to a game but and you have some very real storage issues to deal with. If thats the type of game a developer want's to make they would have to seriously evaluate whether the 360 is a worthwhile platform given so many users don't have a HDD. edit: I'll add that Little Big Planets developers at least cited that that as a potential reason why LBP wouldn't work on the 360 given user content is such a large part of the game. Edited January 1, 2009 by Smigit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Statikk Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I think the arcade is a great SKU! I bought one specifically as a second system for my bedroom so that I could stream Netflix to both TVs. Then I took advantage of the $29 upgrade for a 20GB HDD and later bought a 120GB drive and used HDDHackr to upgrade the 20GB refurbished to a brand new 120GB drive. I ended up with an elite basically for less than pro prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kushan Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 HDD's have other uses too but.What about a music creation game where a user uses a microphone to record audio? Not a karaokee game where you can throw away the audio after but one designed for the creation of audio files. How will that work if users don't have adequate storage for the files given after only a few songs memory card owners will be hitting a wall? Or what about a game centered around the editing of video clips that you import from somewhere else? Same issue as the music but you then are dealing with even larger file sizes. I know users need a memory card to save data currently but that works because a) Most games save data is small b) Many games only allow up to like 3 saves anyway and many users if given the option will use a single save file all the way through Both the above lead to a game not having large memory requirements. Throw in importing custom multimedia content or something to a game but and you have some very real storage issues to deal with. If thats the type of game a developer want's to make they would have to seriously evaluate whether the 360 is a worthwhile platform given so many users don't have a HDD. edit: I'll add that Little Big Planets developers at least cited that that as a potential reason why LBP wouldn't work on the 360 given user content is such a large part of the game. Yeah and how many of those games exist on the PS3 or the original Xbox? Not a large amount, with LBP being the only one that's really had major acclaim lately. Plus, your argument is somewhat flawed because we've seen thousands of instances where things have been released that REQUIRE a hard drive. Nearly every piece of DLC out there requires one due to sheer size, XBLA games are not a bad example either, even the ones with a 150Mb limit are "risky" because chances are anyone with a memory card isn't going to be able to spare the space for one. Then you get games like SSF2THDR that definitely need a hard drive, yet they sell just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aahz Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 The thing about the revisions with the 256mb built-in is that after you install the NXE you are left with roughly 90mb of storage. What that does is make you instantly realize that you'll never be able to play the vast majority of demos available to download over Live. You can imagine how I felt setting the thing up for someone who only wanted to play Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix and then realizing that NXE or no NXE that game/demo is 300+mb and is a total no go without a HDD. It's ironic really; that the SKU designed for consumers being frugal doesn't have the best money saving feature included = the ability to download tons of demos and play them for free. Anyone trying to save money usually rents games or plays a lot of demos or borrows them or whatever. That cheap ****** needs a HDD and thankfully he can still have one for only $20-30. Oh and I ordered the HDD on the 26th, as in the day after Xmas, and it's supposed to be delivered on the 2nd. A one week turn-around from order placed to connected to your box. That's damn good especially considering the time of year. As long as the thing shows up and he says that refurbished doesn't mean near-death I'll be a happy camper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kushan Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 It's not really designed for people who are "frugal", just for people who aren't interested in things like the Marketplace and playing online. That's why the Hard Drive isn't sold as "just" the hard drive, but as the "live starter kit". It's for those people that just want a console to play the odd game on, perhaps in a bedroom or whatever without a net connection. As far as I'm aware, Microsoft still doesn't make a profit on the hardware sold, so they still need people to buy games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted January 2, 2009 Subscriber² Share Posted January 2, 2009 (edited) Yeah and how many of those games exist on the PS3 or the original Xbox? Not a large amount, with LBP being the only one that's really had major acclaim lately. Plus, your argument is somewhat flawed because we've seen thousands of instances where things have been released that REQUIRE a hard drive. Nearly every piece of DLC out there requires one due to sheer size, XBLA games are not a bad example either, even the ones with a 150Mb limit are "risky" because chances are anyone with a memory card isn't going to be able to spare the space for one. Then you get games like SSF2THDR that definitely need a hard drive, yet they sell just fine. But I think what's he saying if retail games required the hard drive out the box, DLC aside, they needed it to actually play from day 1, then developers would have some risk involved in their sales performance depending on how many people don't have hard drives, but would want to buy the game. Then you have the "issue" of someone not knowing or not reading the box before purchase, putting the game in and it saying you can't play until you get a hard drive, or these features are disabled until you get a hard drive. Retail games cost far more to make than XBLA games, and therefore generally need larger sales figures to make a profit. Don't think it would be that high a number anyway, I'd stake most people with a 360 having a hard drive, or getting one. And the amount of games requiring a hard drive for actual feature use as opposed to needing it for installing data for loading, are quite low. However it's worth pointing out the LBP developers did comment on it themselves... Still not a big issue though in light of the pro's of having a really cheap model on the market. Edited January 2, 2009 by Audioboxer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalE Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 An Arcade console makes a nice set-top Media Center Extender device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kushan Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 But I think what's he saying if retail games required the hard drive out the box, DLC aside, they needed it to actually play from day 1, then developers would have some risk involved in their sales performance depending on how many people don't have hard drives, but would want to buy the game.Then you have the "issue" of someone not knowing or not reading the box before purchase, putting the game in and it saying you can't play until you get a hard drive, or these features are disabled until you get a hard drive. Retail games cost far more to make than XBLA games, and therefore generally need larger sales figures to make a profit. Don't think it would be that high a number anyway, I'd stake most people with a 360 having a hard drive, or getting one. And the amount of games requiring a hard drive for actual feature use as opposed to needing it for installing data for loading, are quite low. However it's worth pointing out the LBP developers did comment themselves on it... Still not a big issue though in light of the pro's of having a really cheap model on the market. The LBP developers are hardly going to be unbiased, what with all the cash Sony gave them (Through marketing and whatnot). Besides, how many PS3s are there out there? And how many 360 with hard drives are there out there? I'd say there's at least as many Hard Drive equipped 360s as PS3's. Another point, what games on the PS3 make good use of the Hard Drive for anything other than something to compensate the Blu-Ray drive's slow reading speed? In all the cases where games have installed onto the hard drive, we find that their load times are about the same as the 360's anyway, so it really is those games that just need a lot of storage space, which as I said before, are few and far between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted January 2, 2009 Subscriber² Share Posted January 2, 2009 The LBP developers are hardly going to be unbiased, what with all the cash Sony gave them (Through marketing and whatnot). Besides, how many PS3s are there out there? And how many 360 with hard drives are there out there? I'd say there's at least as many Hard Drive equipped 360s as PS3's.Another point, what games on the PS3 make good use of the Hard Drive for anything other than something to compensate the Blu-Ray drive's slow reading speed? In all the cases where games have installed onto the hard drive, we find that their load times are about the same as the 360's anyway, so it really is those games that just need a lot of storage space, which as I said before, are few and far between. It's not about being biased with LBP, it is a title that needs a hard drive for something outside of a game install for performance - That being the online community side of things. That's all. Games like it are few and far between, but whatever way you look at the arcade, it HAS segmented the xbox 360 market. The solution to that is a hard drive addon for your arcade, but you can never guarantee every single person is going to, or will want to splash out for a hard drive if a game were to hypothetically need it. I've already said the benefits have outweighed any negatives that have came from segmenting the market in this case, so I've not really got anything else to add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kushan Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 But that's just it, if a game NEEDS it, it can slap an Icon on the box saying "Requires Hard drive" (Some 360 games do have this), but in the case of the PS3, a lot of developers just throw an install on there without spending more time optimising their games to cache data. Even Konami did this and as great as MGS4 was (I really really liked it), I think the "install before every chapter" is one of the most annoying things I've ever seen a game do. I'd easily say that's worse than changing disks just for the amount of time it takes, but that's another debate that's been beaten to death. The point is, if a developer wants to make a game that REQUIRES the hard drive, they absolutely can and nothing is stopping them at all, but if there's a way to make the game run just fine without one, then the incentive is there for them to do it for a few more potential sales (Hard to say what without figures of how many Arcades have been sold and how many hard drives have been sold). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted January 2, 2009 Subscriber² Share Posted January 2, 2009 But that's just it, if a game NEEDS it, it can slap an Icon on the box saying "Requires Hard drive" (Some 360 games do have this), but in the case of the PS3, a lot of developers just throw an install on there without spending more time optimising their games to cache data. Even Konami did this and as great as MGS4 was (I really really liked it), I think the "install before every chapter" is one of the most annoying things I've ever seen a game do. I'd easily say that's worse than changing disks just for the amount of time it takes, but that's another debate that's been beaten to death. The point is, if a developer wants to make a game that REQUIRES the hard drive, they absolutely can and nothing is stopping them at all, but if there's a way to make the game run just fine without one, then the incentive is there for them to do it for a few more potential sales (Hard to say what without figures of how many Arcades have been sold and how many hard drives have been sold). It's about the developers thoughts though Kushan, not hard drive installs, PS3 loading, or anything like that. Some have feelings about releasing a game into a segmented market that requires a hard drive for a core part of their experience (feature wise, I've already said I'm not talking about game installs) - That's all Smigit was pointing in when he brought up LBP, and the comment Media Molecule made about multiplatform and LBP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kushan Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 Yeah and I'm saying the Arcade doesn't really factor into it. You're still seeing it as a "segmented market", when really it's just a slightly smaller market. When a developer is considering a game, before they go to the publisher and ask them for money, they project potential sales from the potential market and face that off against what it'll cost to develop the game. If sales are bigger, then the game should (in theory) be profitable and thus can be made. For arguments sake, lets assume that all live-enabled consoles have a hard drive and all non-live enabled consoles do not. When a developer wants to make a regular 360 game (i.e., no HDD specific features), their potential market is about 25million consoles. When they want to make a game that absolutely requires the hard drive, their market is a bit less, say 15million. That might sound pretty harsh, but the exact same limitation applies to a developer who wants to make an online-based game - only live-enabled consoles will be the potential market, so it's the same sort of ordeal. XBLA games are the same, only consoles connected to Live can really qualify. What I'm trying to say is that a lack of a hard drive isn't the only thing that could "segment" a market, so why is it such a big deal for the Arcade? Why don't people complain that the console didn't come with an internal 3G modem or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts