burnblue Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 The taskbar is awesome. I have suggestions though, because of behavior I just can't get used to. 1. If a single window of an application is open, the taskbar works as expected where if you click the taskbar icon the window is brought to front. When you have multiple windows however, clicking the icon just brings up the thumbnails. This means I'll need an extra click to get to the window I want. For example, IE has a different thumbnail for each tab, in one window. If you click on the IE icon it won't bring IE to the front: It'll just pop up the preview thumbails for you. Suggestion: Bring up the preview thumbnails when I hover over the taskbar icon for a certain time, and when I click on the icon bring all windows of that application to the front. Give focus to the window/tab that was last used or was originally in front. 2. Symbolizing which apps are already open by using a translucent bounding box already works quite well. Don't listen to Paul Thurrott or whoever else says people will be confused by not knowing what's already open. 3. The WMP special taskbar thing (deskband?) from XP/Vista is far superior to the SuperBar implementation. You could Pause/Play with a simple click instead of having to hover, move the mouse then click again. You would also click the progress bar to move to differnt parts of the song. On hover, you could see song information and if you were watching a video you could have the preview stay down there permanently. Suggestion: Make the thumbnail preview better at showing album art and song info. All you get right now is a literal preview of the window, which has album art that is way too small to be recognizable. Include a progress thing so we can skip through. If we can get better pause/play/skip controls, that would be great too. 4. The flashing orange on the taskbar when an application needed your attention was much more noticeable before. It is so soft now it doesn't really grab your attention. 5. Can't jumplists use both Most Recently Used and Most Frequently used simultaneously? For example, can't Explorer do a Frequent list and then show me a short list of places I've just been? By the way, the current jump list almost never has destinations I'm really interested in, even though it's so long. Another example, instead of just History, couldn't the IE jumplist also automatically show your top bookmarks? 6. Using the trackpad on my laptop, the Show Desktop right corner is kind of far. Is there I way I can move it? Also, it should be snappier at peeking at the desktop. 7. Often when I'm using Peek to look at a window, I'll move my mouse to the window to interact with it, forgetting I need to click on the thumbnail preview first. Of course, the window disappears since it's only a peek. Unfortunately I can't think of any way to get around this besides getting used to it, unless hovering over a preview for long enough would automatically give the window focus. That's all I have for now. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirtythree Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Symbolizing which apps are already open by using a translucent bounding box already works quite well. Don't listen to Paul Thurrott or whoever else says people will be confused by not knowing what's already open. Why does anyone even bother with Paul Thurrott anyway? I usually feel dumber by reading any of his reviews. It's about as bad as some hardware junkies going to Tom's Hardware Guide too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Teej Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Mixed reactions to your suggestions and comments, so I'll go through them one by one. Please note I don't actually have Windows 7, although I have some knowledge on it. 1. If a single window of an application is open, the taskbar works as expected where if you click the taskbar icon the window is brought to front. When you have multiple windows however, clicking the icon just brings up the thumbnails. This means I'll need an extra click to get to the window I want. For example, IE has a different thumbnail for each tab, in one window. If you click on the IE icon it won't bring IE to the front: It'll just pop up the preview thumbails for you.Suggestion: Bring up the preview thumbnails when I hover over the taskbar icon for a certain time, and when I click on the icon bring all windows of that application to the front. Give focus to the window/tab that was last used or was originally in front. I disagree with this. While it worked with Vista because there was no window tabbing, having the ability to bring that all up at once may lead to some sort of performance issue when flicking through the icons a lot. Also, I don't like having to wait for the tabbed windows to come out on a mouse over. IMO, a click is much better idea. However, a super bar option to switch this would probably be best. I suppose this is preference, however. Regardless, I definitely do not like the idea of clicking on the icon to bring up all. Case in point - MS Word with multiple large documents. I suppose this is a bit of a Vista fear carrying over, but I don't want multiple heavy documents all being loaded up at once. Or, alternatively, multiple instances of Visual Studio. Once again, a preference, but one I'm not entirely sure I think should even be there as an option. 2. Symbolizing which apps are already open by using a translucent bounding box already works quite well. Don't listen to Paul Thurrott or whoever else says people will be confused by not knowing what's already open. Agreed. Anybody who says this either is spreading FUD, or has some sort of very bad eye sight. 3. The WMP special taskbar thing (deskband?) from XP/Vista is far superior to the SuperBar implementation. You could Pause/Play with a simple click instead of having to hover, move the mouse then click again. You would also click the progress bar to move to differnt parts of the song. On hover, you could see song information and if you were watching a video you could have the preview stay down there permanently.Suggestion: Make the thumbnail preview better at showing album art and song info. All you get right now is a literal preview of the window, which has album art that is way too small to be recognizable. Include a progress thing so we can skip through. If we can get better pause/play/skip controls, that would be great too. I like the idea of this. I'm actually pretty confident all of the features of the WMP taskbar will be ported over to the tab preview on the SB. WMP12 is just under a year away yet, and it wouldn't make sense to not port features over that are tried and tested in a very similar scenario. Having album art in the preview would be a nice touch, as like you said, it's too small to see. 4. The flashing orange on the taskbar when an application needed your attention was much more noticeable before. It is so soft now it doesn't really grab your attention. I can't really comment on this, as I have not seen it. 5. Can't jumplists use both Most Recently Used and Most Frequently used simultaneously? For example, can't Explorer do a Frequent list and then show me a short list of places I've just been? By the way, the current jump list almost never has destinations I'm really interested in, even though it's so long. Another example, instead of just History, couldn't the IE jumplist also automatically show your top bookmarks? Once again, can't really comment as I do not know if they can do this. However, my understanding of the jump list is that it brings up the whole list to the right, and not in a sub menu, correct? The only way of doing this is in a submenu, which IMO, may make the jump lists a bit too complex. We need the jumplists to maintain a fair degree of simplicity otherwise it may overload the common user. 6. Using the trackpad on my laptop, the Show Desktop right corner is kind of far. Is there I way I can move it? Also, it should be snappier at peeking at the desktop. Unsure about how to move it. I'm sure with enough user feedback to Microsoft, this can be made possible. Also, by snappier, I assume you mean faster? If so, perhaps this is a problem with a speed of your laptop? When looking at the videos shown in presentations, it all seems to be very fast. 7. Often when I'm using Peek to look at a window, I'll move my mouse to the window to interact with it, forgetting I need to click on the thumbnail preview first. Of course, the window disappears since it's only a peek. Unfortunately I can't think of any way to get around this besides getting used to it, unless hovering over a preview for long enough would automatically give the window focus. I think the solution may be to hold down a key. Perhaps alt? If holding down alt when hovering out of the tab preview, and if going to the window and clicking on it, it will bring up the window and make it useable. Even then, though, this is a case of remembering to press a button. Remember, the tab preview is just that, a preview. It's primary focus when hovering isn't to switch, but to peek. Clicking has always been the primary user action to switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnblue Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 I disagree with this. While it worked with Vista because there was no window tabbing, having the ability to bring that all up at once may lead to some sort of performance issue when flicking through the icons a lot. Also, I don't like having to wait for the tabbed windows to come out on a mouse over. IMO, a click is much better idea. However, a super bar option to switch this would probably be best. I suppose this is preference, however. Regardless, I definitely do not like the idea of clicking on the icon to bring up all. Let me clear up: The current behavior is that you can hover over an icon and the thumbnails come up, but you can also just switch to a single-window application just by clicking. Basically it works just like previous taskbars with grouping turned on, plus the ability to hover. All I was asking for is that clicking do more than just show thumbnail previews for grouped windows: I want clicking to always actually switch apps. However, my understanding of the jump list is that it brings up the whole list to the right, and not in a sub menu, correct? The only way of doing this is in a submenu, which IMO, may make the jump lists a bit too complex. I'm not sure exactly how you're thinking of this, but I didn't really say anything about a submenu. Just another section in the jump list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted January 5, 2009 Veteran Share Posted January 5, 2009 I thought the thumbnails already came up when you hover over running applications in the taskbar in Windows 7? :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stetson Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 All I was asking for is that clicking do more than just show thumbnail previews for grouped windows: I want clicking to always actually switch apps. I agree. I think that clicking an icon that represents multiple windows should cycle through those windows when clicked. Perhaps in order of last active or just in the order shown by the thumbnails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted January 5, 2009 Veteran Share Posted January 5, 2009 I think people are missing the point. The whole point in showing the thumbnails in Windows 7 when clicking on the running application is so the thumbnails stay up, rather than disappearing. Useful if, for example, you want to have a video playing at the bottom but need the space on the screen to do work. I'm sure they said this at PDC as well as hovering over running applications would bring up thumbnails temporarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stetson Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I understand that that's the point, but here's a fairly common scenario where I feel that the standard icon-only gets in the way: My IM client is running (Pidgin), with two windows. One is the buddy list, one is the message window. I'm having a conversation with someone while also using a maximized application. Every time I get a new IM, I have to click or hover on the Pidgin icon then select the message window. It's not that terribly inconvenient, but in most of my usage of the superbar it just seems like it gets out of my way and does just what I want. In this scenario, I find myself suddenly and annoyingly aware of the behavior of the superbar. If the first time I clicked the icon I got the buddy list and the second time I got the message window, I would be happy. Another suggestion would be an option to remove the delay on hover. Simply clicking through the windows by clicking on the icon seems like the best way to go for me, as the taskbar button is an easier target to hit (its on the edge of the screen) than the thumbnails which float in 2D space. For added context, when clicking through the windows in this manner the thumbnail bar could still display, so that you know where you are in the cycle, how many windows are open for that app, and can click on a specific one if you would rather do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x-byte Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Do you really expect all software to be compatible with the new superbar? Try running Pidgin in compatibility mode set to Vista. What's really bad with the beat leak is people expecting it to run like a finished OS. If you don't know the meaning of beta you shouldn't install it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stetson Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I don't see that as an incompatibility at all. Pidgin shows two windows as it should, and Windows lists two windows as it should. I'm just saying that if you're frequently trying to get to one window that is hidden in a group, the hover -> find thumbnail method seems like a bit much just to get back to the same window over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted January 6, 2009 Veteran Share Posted January 6, 2009 I understand that that's the point, but here's a fairly common scenario where I feel that the standard icon-only gets in the way:My IM client is running (Pidgin), with two windows. One is the buddy list, one is the message window. I'm having a conversation with someone while also using a maximized application. Every time I get a new IM, I have to click or hover on the Pidgin icon then select the message window. It's not that terribly inconvenient, but in most of my usage of the superbar it just seems like it gets out of my way and does just what I want. In this scenario, I find myself suddenly and annoyingly aware of the behavior of the superbar. If the first time I clicked the icon I got the buddy list and the second time I got the message window, I would be happy. Another suggestion would be an option to remove the delay on hover. Simply clicking through the windows by clicking on the icon seems like the best way to go for me, as the taskbar button is an easier target to hit (its on the edge of the screen) than the thumbnails which float in 2D space. For added context, when clicking through the windows in this manner the thumbnail bar could still display, so that you know where you are in the cycle, how many windows are open for that app, and can click on a specific one if you would rather do that. Unless I'm reading wrong, I don't understand your complaint about selecting the message window. In Windows Vista or Windows XP you would have had to click on the taskbar group and select the message window you wanted to view. This is the same as the behaviour you described in Windows 7 isn't it? You can always turn grouping off, but whether or not you are using Windows XP, Windows Vista or Windows 7, you have to click on the taskbar group and select the Window. That is, of course, if you have many conversation windows open at once and have grouping turned on (like I do). Unless you are talking about the fact that with instant messengers, it is hard to tell which conversation is which in Windows 7, at the moment, if you just have the icon showing as the user's name is no longer in the title bar? A solution to this problem needs to be thought of, but it is a sacrifice I am willing to make in order to use the taskbar with Windows 7's default settings as it is just so much better and you can always remember the position of each conversation in the thumbnails after seeing them all once (or recognise features of what each conversation looks like from the thumbnail). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stetson Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 The situation is that there is a group on the superbar consisting of only two windows. One is the buddy list, one is the conversation window (which is tabbed and holds all conversations). The only window in the group that I need to get to frequently is the conversation window. I understand that this isn't that common of a situation, its just the only time that it seems that the superbar has gotten in my way. :) Maybe a different solution would be to have the option to ungroup one specific window. Ex: right click the conversation window and ungroup it from the Pidgin group. This way for this specific instance I get two buttons on the taskbar, while grouping remains always on for the rest of the windows. Back to the original part of my suggestion, I think a quicker way to cycle through windows in a group would be handy in many cases. To get to the third IE tab, just *click* *click* *click*. rather than click/hover, search through the thumbnails, "there it is!" and then click. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted January 6, 2009 Veteran Share Posted January 6, 2009 The situation is that there is a group on the superbar consisting of only two windows. One is the buddy list, one is the conversation window (which is tabbed and holds all conversations). The only window in the group that I need to get to frequently is the conversation window.I understand that this isn't that common of a situation, its just the only time that it seems that the superbar has gotten in my way. :) Maybe a different solution would be to have the option to ungroup one specific window. Ex: right click the conversation window and ungroup it from the Pidgin group. This way for this specific instance I get two buttons on the taskbar, while grouping remains always on for the rest of the windows. Back to the original part of my suggestion, I think a quicker way to cycle through windows in a group would be handy in many cases. To get to the third IE tab, just *click* *click* *click*. rather than click/hover, search through the thumbnails, "there it is!" and then click. Ah, I see what you mean now - that must be annoying. I do like your suggestions but I am unsure if I'd want them to change the current behaviour in Windows 7. Just send a lot of feedback to Microsoft ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnblue Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 I understand that this isn't that common of a situation, its just the only time that it seems that the superbar has gotten in my way. It may be common, I go through that same thing too, with Digsby. Maybe a different solution would be to have the option to ungroup one specific window. Ex: right click the conversation window and ungroup it from the Pidgin group. This way for this specific instance I get two buttons on the taskbar, while grouping remains always on for the rest of the windows. I always wanted granular grouping too, though not specifically for this reason. Back to the original part of my suggestion, I think a quicker way to cycle through windows in a group would be handy in many cases. To get to the third IE tab, just *click* *click* *click*. rather than click/hover, search through the thumbnails, "there it is!" and then click. I didn't think of repeating clicks for cycling, that's actually pretty clever! The bottom line I feel is that when I click on an icon I should get immediate results. This is the reason I didn't use grouping in XP/Vista, and there's a chance to improve on it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solixis Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Maybe unrelated but I noticed that if you have programs open on the taskbar, if you click and hold on one, and then slightly drag up while still holding, you get a different menu of options as opposed to single clicking, which max/min the window. EDIT: Oops, its just the same as right-clicking the icon, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
random_n Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Cycling on click... it's like Alt-Tab (one of my first true loves :p), but both lazier and more precise. Great Scott, I think we're on to something! :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeChipshop Member Posted January 7, 2009 Member Share Posted January 7, 2009 Maybe unrelated but I noticed that if you have programs open on the taskbar, if you click and hold on one, and then slightly drag up while still holding, you get a different menu of options as opposed to single clicking, which max/min the window.EDIT: Oops, its just the same as right-clicking the icon, sorry. I'd never noticed that. i would assume that's for touch screen reasons, to easily get to the jumplists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnblue Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 I'd never noticed that. i would assume that's for touch screen reasons, to easily get to the jumplists Yes, it was mentioned in the PDC keynote when Windows 7 was revealed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeChipshop Member Posted January 7, 2009 Member Share Posted January 7, 2009 Now if i could backdate that comment to before the PDC i'd feel really smart rather than the dumb obvious thinker i am :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoken Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I have the exact same issue. I was going back and forth between an IE window displaying a tutorial and the app that the tutorial was for. Normally it would be a one click affair to switch back and forth, but since IE had more than one tab open I had to first click the taskbar tile, then move to and click the thumbnail for the tab I needed. It became so cumbersome that I disabled the feature in IE (under the tabs menu there is a checkbox that lets you choose whether or not you want different tabs to be displayed as thumbs in the taskbar). You can currently ctrl+click (or it might be shift or alt + click, I can't remember right now) on a taskbar group and it will maximize the window with a single click. It would be great if we could have a mouse only solution to do this. Perhaps the option to switch the jumplist gesture? I already have one method for initiating a jumplist (right click) the second method, while valuable for touchscreen users, is redundant for me. It would be great if the gesture was set to one thing in touch mode and a different thing in normal mode. It's seems silly to remove functionality, or create redundant functionality at the expense of useful actions, because you want to cater to the lowest common denominator. I think MS could have gone a lot farther with the suberbar. This is how I would do it; Hover over an taskbar item and the thumbnails are viewable instantly. The last used window in the group is preselected/highlighted (in other words one of the thumbnails is highlighted while your mouse is still hovering over the taskbar icon) and a click on the taskbar icon acts as if you clicked on the selected thumbnail. I would also give the ability to scroll through windows with the mouse wheel. So you put the pointer on a taskbar item, thumbnails instantly appear and a certain one is highlighted. With your mouse still on the taskbar icon, you begin to scroll you're mouse wheel which in turn changes the currently highlighted window. Then, when the desired window is selected you click the taskbar icon and that window becomes restored. It's basically the same concept behind flip 3D; you initiate the switching action, select the window with the mouse wheel, then restore that window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayp Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Sorry to bump a very old post. But I've developed a solution very similar to geoken's suggestion above. It's called Taskbar Overlord, and is free and open source. You can read about it and download it here: http://www.ocellated.com/2009/06/04/taskbar-overlord/ Lifehacker also promoted it. http://lifehacker.com/5280228/taskbar-over...ndows-7-taskbar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vask Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 The taskbar is awesome. I have suggestions though, because of behavior I just can't get used to.1. If a single window of an application is open, the taskbar works as expected where if you click the taskbar icon the window is brought to front. When you have multiple windows however, clicking the icon just brings up the thumbnails. This means I'll need an extra click to get to the window I want. For example, IE has a different thumbnail for each tab, in one window. If you click on the IE icon it won't bring IE to the front: It'll just pop up the preview thumbails for you. Suggestion: Bring up the preview thumbnails when I hover over the taskbar icon for a certain time, and when I click on the icon bring all windows of that application to the front. Give focus to the window/tab that was last used or was originally in front. Completely agree. This annoys the heck out of me. Another useful thing would be to have a minimize icon next to the close icom in the thumbnail. Overall, the way the combined icons work right now is a lot less productive than the old way, particularly if you have multiple tabs and instances of internet explorer open, to get to the outmost tab you have to first move your mouse all the way to the left and then wait for thumbnails to pop up and then move it all the way to the right. Even more annoying when working with the notebook's trackpad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theyarecomingforyou Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I agree with virtually everything in the original post, points 1), 4) and 7) especially. At the end of the day Win7 improves many things but some changes are counter-intuitive or simply slow down tasks. It's not as overwhelmingly positive as the Office 2007 interface change was. Certainly it's great that multitasking a large number of apps is now more practical but it's annoying that managing multiple windows for individual apps is so much slower. Overall Win7 is an improvement over Vista (and light years ahead of XP) but there are many design decisions that I don't agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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