shakey_snake Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 (edited) why does microsoft add in a defragmenter if it isnt needed?To maintain a market for defrag products that existed before NTFS.For all the people that says NTFS does not need to be defraged.*BLAH BLAH BLAH* Source The points not that fragmentation doesn't happen on occasion, the point is that it doesn't actually noticeably slow things down the way it used to.I have a 5 year old HDD in a computer running a 5 year old install of XP that has never been defragmented. It doesn't run any slower now than it has at any other time. Don't let people convince you to buy/use unnecessary products. Edited January 16, 2009 by shakey_snake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleaf Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 To maintain a market for defrag products that existed before NTFS.The points not that fragmentation doesn't happen on occasion, the point is that it doesn't actually noticeably slow things down the way it used to. I have a 5 year old HDD in a computer running a 5 year old install of XP that has never been defragmented. It doesn't run any slower now than it has at any other time. Don't let people convince you to buy/use unnecessary products. And you can prove this how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stingray Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 http://www.kessels.nl/JkDefrag/index.html /thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirtythree Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 That still doesn't clean up a lot of stuff that ccleaner does. If Windows did everything, Microsoft would be sued more than they are now for bundling. Ooooo, it erases Internet Explorer history and cookies. That's going to save on storage space! :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakey_snake Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 And you can prove this how? Like anything, the burden of proof on the one claiming that Δ* (delta) exists. *which would be a change in performance that comes from running a defrag utility in this case /thread.All defrag utilities use the exactl same Windows API to preform their function. One utility isn't going to do a "better job" than another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Churma Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 (edited) Go to start and type in the search line cmd. Do not press enter. Look at programs above and you will see cmd.exe Now right click on it and select run as administrator. Click on continue on uac and now type in the cmd "defrag c:" without the parentheses and click on enter. It will defrag your root via cmd prompt. If your root is not c then change the drive letter. Cheers, Mikee Edited January 16, 2009 by Mikee4fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleaf Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Like anything, the burden of proof on the one claiming that Δ* (delta) exists.*which would be a change in performance that comes from running a defrag utility in this case All defrag utilities use the exactl same Windows API to preform their function. One utility isn't going to do a "better job" than another. You can avoid answering the question any way you wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakey_snake Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 You can avoid showing me the actual difference any way you wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamwhoiam Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Ooooo, it erases Internet Explorer history and cookies. That's going to save on storage space! :blink: Ooooo, it also removes orphaned registry keys and values, cleans up temp files that accumulate, ect. :blink: Post something constructive next time, or don't post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamwhoiam Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 All defrag utilities use the exactl same Windows API to preform their function. One utility isn't going to do a "better job" than another. Yep. http://www.kessels.nl/JkDefrag/index.html JkDefrag, as well as other free defraggers, wouldn't exist if Sysinternals hadn't documented the use of the defrag API for public use in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirtythree Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Ooooo, it also removes orphaned registry keys and values, cleans up temp files that accumulate, ect. :blink: Removing registry keys that point to nothing take up exactly how much space? There's zero performance improvement by "cleaning" the registry. You shouldn't even touch it unless there is something severely wrong with your computer. Post something constructive next time, or don't post. Cleaning registry keys is constructive? Follow your own advice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fix-this! Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 You don't even need ccleaner at all. yes you need ccleaner, it is a marvelous app ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scaramonga Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Do you like moving empty boxes from one room to another, and would wish to do so for a living?? No? Pointless eh?, a bit like defragging, and more so if you install a special app to do it. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleaf Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 (edited) All defrag utilities use the exactl same Windows API to preform their function. One utility isn't going to do a "better job" than another. That statement is only partially correct. The Defragmentation APIs built into Windows only allow for finding empty space, finding where files are at on disk, and moving data around on disk safely. Actually writing files out in a defragmented manner and deciding where on the disk to put them is still up to the application that you use. Edited January 16, 2009 by sweetleaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirtythree Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 That statement is only partially correct.The Defragmentation APIs built into Windows only allow for finding empty space, finding where files are at on disk, and moving data around on disk safely. Actually writing files out in a defragmented manner and deciding where on the disk to put them is still up to the application that you use. I ran CCleaner and my 3DMark score went from 78390 to 78391! It improves system performance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scaramonga Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I ran CCleaner and my 3DMark score went from 78390 to 78391! It improves system performance! :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleaf Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 +shakey_snake It is evident that you are the type to spit out crap with nothing to back it up. This site is full of this type. I in no way shape or form would suggest anyone to purchase any defrag software. The ones i have recommended are free and are from technet and a free GUI for the contig command line utility. Thirtythree I made no comment about the crap cleaner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamwhoiam Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m.oreilly Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I ran CCleaner and my 3DMark score went from 78390 to 78391! It improves system performance! ffs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m.oreilly Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 i'd have to agree w/monkeyface guy, to a point. it's like ****ing; when you're done, if it drips , give it a shake... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yakumo Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 That statement is only partially correct.The Defragmentation APIs built into Windows only allow for finding empty space, finding where files are at on disk, and moving data around on disk safely. Actually writing files out in a defragmented manner and deciding where on the disk to put them is still up to the application that you use. also only some will handle locked files, system files, and MFT optimization. free defraggers are very good these days, but PerfectDisk is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakey_snake Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 (edited) +shakey_snakeIt is evident that you are the type to spit out crap with nothing to back it up. This site is full of this type. And what effort have you done to back your claims exactly? Maybe you're right. This site might be "full" of this type. :rolleyes: Are you ever going to show me actual, unbiased evidence that defragmenting NTFS makes an significant difference? Or are you just going to continue to try and flame me? also only some will handle locked files, system files, and MFT optimization.free defraggers are very good these days, but PerfectDisk is great. lol. So how measurable of a difference does that make exactly? You can find a way to measure the performance gains right? My guess is no you can't, or at least haven't. This is because you've just been duped into buying a bunch of bull from someone selling you something. Edited January 16, 2009 by shakey_snake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iZoom Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I have used an OS's defrag utility sparingly because I did a lot of bulk installing/uninstalling at one point. I assumed that doing that action would fragment some files, so that's why I ran it. I didn't notice much of a decrease beforehand and afterward, any improvement was likely a placebo effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleaf Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 And what effort have you done to back your claims exactly? Maybe you're right. This site might be "full" of this type. :rolleyes: Are you ever going to show me actual, unbiased evidence that defragmenting NTFS makes an significant difference? Or are you just going to continue to try and flame me? Firstly I asked for your proof and you come back with some statement about the burden of proof. You have not even offered or tried to show proof of your statements. Only argumentative statements towards anyone that does not feel as you do on this subject. I am not here to argue with anyone. Only to offer my knowledge and experiences. Agreed to disagree as far as I am concerned. :) Also some of your statements have been only half truths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iZoom Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 3 steps of this thread: * Mod will likely clean up the "half attacks" on one another * The two posters who seem to not agree could easily talk via PM or IM about this * The thread could get back on track regarding whether or not users have used the built-in defrag tool Chance of happening: Yet to be determined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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