LTD Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Just installed full desktop effects + Compiz. Running Fedora 10. I just discovered that there is a very nice Expose-like feature that can be tweaked via the GL Desktop panel. Works almost exactly like in OS X. Same lovely transitions. I even have the same screen corner configured to activate it. Big points for usability. Wow. There's some very slight stuttering to some of these effects, but still very impressive and all in all looks great. Never mind Gnome. XFCE with desktop effects is even smoother and more impressive given its lighter weight. I must say, desktop Linux has come a long way, and not just in configurability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I agree that Linux has come a long way (first time i tried it as way back in 98....). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spd21 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 It has, i first tried Mandrake before it changed it's name to Mandriva... I hated it nothing worked it was messy etc, that was about 6-7 years ago and now i dual-boot Linux, it has come a very long way in a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwolfe Veteran Posted January 18, 2009 Veteran Share Posted January 18, 2009 Nice to see you like the effects. And, from an OSX user, just saying "It doesn't make me vomit" can be a compliment. ;) I'm not into eye candy at all. I use fluxbox, so my biggest "bling" is the rounded corners. No shadows or transparency (or wobbly windows or cube, etc) for me. But that is what I really like about Linux. I can use my minimal UI, and you can have the bling. And we can run the same apps, if we want, or I can go out on a limb and choose all lesser-known apps that do things the way I want them done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elv13 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 @markjensen: shadow, fading and transparency working pretty well in fluxbox, you just have to enable xcompgr. It does not really affect performances or startup speed (unless you use conky, then it will just bug), but I am even worst than you, I use awesomeWM, a tiled wm, I dont even have round corner, in fact, I dont even have windows corner at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyro Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 yea, Linux Desktop has come a long way and it feels painfully closer on being tightly integrated Desktop solution, right now the choices are so many , not all developers focus on any single WM or API or developer-tool so to speak (atleast it feels that way from outsider point of view , i know Eclipse is very popular etc for example). just some steps closer I guess for perfect viable solution for Everyyone (even gamers ;) ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glowstick Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Never mind Gnome. XFCE with desktop effects is even smoother and more impressive given its lighter weight. When running Compiz, it replaces both the window manager and decorator (i.e. GNOME/XFCE not even involved in window drawing). Running either GNOME or XFCE won't do **** in regards to performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lechio Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 When running Compiz, it replaces both the window manager and decorator (i.e. GNOME/XFCE not even involved in window drawing). Running either GNOME or XFCE won't do **** in regards to performance. But you can have those effects and have no need to replace your window manager. I'm running KDE 4.2 with Kwin as the window manager, no need to use another. I believe the XFCE window manager (xfwm4) also supports those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperAFK Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I think compiz is really overrated imo. I have yet to get it running smooth and with no tearing yet on any video card no matter how powerful and whether it's ati or nvidia. Whether I use drivers from the repos or manually install them from ati or nvidia too. Having hideous tearing moving windows defeats the point of a 3d desktop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyro Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 really viper? and havent you seen youtube videos running compiz smooth like butter? obviously you must be missing on something when configuring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperAFK Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Trust me dude I have used about every linux distro out their and no very well how to properly configure drivers and compiz. I have also asked in the compiz forums and they don't help at all. also google compiz "vblank" or "vsync" and you will see TONS of people having these issues with all different kinds of cards, I have tried every single fix and workaround out there. Horrible tearing on all my cards. There are also some really retarded design choices in compiz, like how the window previews and ring switcher/cover flow switchers don't show thumbnails for windows that are minimized at all they show a hideous blurry app icon, when I asked about this they just told me its the way it's designed. that defeats the ENTIRE PURPOSE of window thumbnails. The devs should stop making windows that fold into paper airplanes or burst into flames and work on things that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lechio Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I think compiz is really overrated imo. I have yet to get it running smooth and with no tearing yet on any video card no matter how powerful and whether it's ati or nvidia. Whether I use drivers from the repos or manually install them from ati or nvidia too. Having hideous tearing moving windows defeats the point of a 3d desktop. Runs smoothly on an NVIDIA Geforce 440 MX with 64MB of RAM. :yes: 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV18 [GeForce4 MX 440 AGP 8x] (rev c1) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperAFK Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I have tried compiz on: nvidia: 7600gs 9600gt 7600gt 6600gt aTi: X1950PRO hd2600 x300 result: awful tearing and unreliable performance. and I have used linux for years and am pretty experienced with it and have used compiz ranging from compiz, to beryl, to the latest compiz fusion. I have compiled the latest compiz fusion from git ect.. tried many workarounds and fixes and it's still a pile of arse. Doesn't matter whether I enable vsync in compiz options, or video driver options or disable detect refresh rate in compiz and set it to the proper 60 ect.. bad tearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2687 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 It all depends on your graphics card. It seems like some what older hardware tends to work better because the drivers have more time to mature. In the case with ATI cards more recent cards are terrible with 3D composited desktops because the drivers are poor from both the open source and proprietary side. For me a Radeon 9600 mobility with open source drivers works better than an x1900xtx with fglrx. It is still not as good as Windows or OSXs 3D desktops though. I mean in terms of the tearing and vsync problems. At least we know they are trying to address the driver issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elv13 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 It should run fine and smooth on all of them. I hate to say that, but try with XGL instead of AIGLX, or try AIGLX if you were using nvidia own texture to pixmap extension (use nvidia own t2p extension and not AIGLX). You are probably using the wrong backend, thats all. XGL have always been the smootest, but it had (it is an abandonateware now) problems with 3D games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glowstick Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 But you can have those effects and have no need to replace your window manager. I'm running KDE 4.2 with Kwin as the window manager, no need to use another. I believe the XFCE window manager (xfwm4) also supports those. Kwin has its own compositing. It's not Compiz. I don't know if xfwm4 does its own compositing, but when you're running Compiz, you're running one of its own decorators, not xfwm4, Metacity or whatever else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTD Posted January 18, 2009 Author Share Posted January 18, 2009 (edited) Decided to try Ubuntu (newest release) 64 bit. I'm blown away by the configurability and features of CCSM. I was impressed with the way the Expose-clone worked before, but the additional features of CCSM are just crazy. Not only does the quality of these effects (and smoothness) approache those in Leopard quite closely (could be a tad smoother), but far surpasses it in terms of variety and configurability. CCSM offers options to scale them back in order to understate, or dial them right up to put on a show. The Cube effect under Ubuntu and with Nvidia drivers (on a Rev. E Macbook Pro and a 24-inh LCD) looks insanely good. There are so many ways to work with Windows under CCSM. Hover over a minimzed Window in the Taskbar and you get a little thumbnail preview of the window. I wonder who else has that?? :whistle: In any case I won't be using that feature since the Spaces (Expo) + Expose-clone (Scale) is far more useful in terms of my workflow. Speaking of Expo . . . that's a very slick implementation of virtual desktop switching. And installing all the goodies was stupidly simple. The last time I used Linux full-time was in 2004/2005. The changes since then have been impressive, and not just in terms of stability ease of use. Edited January 18, 2009 by LTD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTD Posted January 18, 2009 Author Share Posted January 18, 2009 delete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis W. Veteran Posted January 18, 2009 Veteran Share Posted January 18, 2009 also google compiz "vblank" or "vsync" and you will see TONS of people having these issues with all different kinds of cards, I have tried every single fix and workaround out there. Horrible tearing on all my cards.There are also some really retarded design choices in compiz, like how the window previews and ring switcher/cover flow switchers don't show thumbnails for windows that are minimized at all they show a hideous blurry app icon, when I asked about this they just told me its the way it's designed. that defeats the ENTIRE PURPOSE of window thumbnails. Agreed on these two points. Funny how Compiz was smoother than Aero on my laptop. On my desktop, it's the complete opposite, plus the tearing is unbelievable. I don't know why it's that difficult to simply store a screenshot of the window before it was minimized and use that when the window is minimized. That's even worse than the DWM losing screenshots thanks to games (not so anymore in 7). In my opinion, people on lower end hardware get more out of Compiz, given that Aero won't run on sub-DX9 hardware. Example is my older Vaio machine with a Radeon 9200. It runs Compiz rather well (still a bit slow though, not anything terrible though), but it's a no go for Aero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lechio Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Kwin has its own compositing. It's not Compiz. I don't know if xfwm4 does its own compositing, but when you're running Compiz, you're running one of its own decorators, not xfwm4, Metacity or whatever else. True, Kwin has its own compositing. xfwm4 has a few options for compositing too: I believe metacity has some options as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperAFK Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 True, Kwin has its own compositing.xfwm4 has a few options for compositing too: I believe metacity has some options as well. Metacity has two options: on and off and you have to use gconf-editor to turn it on. It's not final, and it had this really hideous black rectangle minimize animation is the only animation. there is also no option for vsync. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lechio Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Metacity has two options: on and off and you have to use gconf-editor to turn it on. It's not final, and it had this really hideous black rectangle minimize animation is the only animation. there is also no option for vsync. Oh... :blink: That really sucks... GNOME should really keep up with others, Kwin from KDE has a very complete composite manager. Thought that GNOME should have something similar by now... Kwin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glowstick Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Thought that GNOME should have something similar by now... It's called Compiz. Unless you insist them pulling a NIH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lechio Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 It's called Compiz. Unless you insist them pulling a NIH. No. I'm talking about GNOME here. Compiz is a compositing window manager that uses 3D graphics acceleration via OpenGL. It provides various new graphical effects and features on any desktop environment, including GNOME and KDE. http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/Compiz Compiz is not part of the GNOME project, talking about GNOME and its window manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Decryptor Veteran Posted January 19, 2009 Veteran Share Posted January 19, 2009 ...There are also some really retarded design choices in compiz, like how the window previews and ring switcher/cover flow switchers don't show thumbnails for windows that are minimized at all they show a hideous blurry app icon, when I asked about this they just told me its the way it's designed. that defeats the ENTIRE PURPOSE of window thumbnails. ... Vista does this too, windows don't redraw when they're minimised so there's no way to draw a thumbnail. Vista is smart enough to cache the last full thumbnail that drew though (which Compiz should be doing too) Oh... :blink: That really sucks... GNOME should really keep up with others, Kwin from KDE has a very complete composite manager. Thought that GNOME should have something similar by now... ... Gnome does have it, Metacity can act as a compositor. It's very simple though, it does drop shadows and window thumbnails in the alt+tab list, that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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