iamwhoiam Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 (edited) Yet The Pirate Bay is getting frontpage attention (and free publicity) The name of the Windows 7 ISO was given in the forums and it was deleted. Reason being that they don't support blah blah blah, yet all the info you could ever want about obtaining it was directly on the front page. Personally, I really don't care about the petty flame fests that go on, but the double standards do irk the hell out of me. Edited February 18, 2009 by iamwhoiam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jamesyfx Subscriber² Posted February 18, 2009 Subscriber² Share Posted February 18, 2009 I personally think Neowin has gotten better since I first registered. When I first joined I had a lot of criticism thrown my way and a lot of members were pretty elitist and argumentative. A lot of that has disappeared now. I feel more comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draken Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Yes Not all, but some mods tend to oversight posts deserving a warning because they are +. Members aren't helpful as they used to be, the new number 1 response is "google for it" or that let me "google it for you" link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+shift. MVC Posted February 18, 2009 MVC Share Posted February 18, 2009 Not quite in decline IMO. Firstly, if you've been here long enough you'll know which members are easy to get along with, and I guess which are more stubborn and like to start petty debates about random topics. Secondly, there is a solution to EVERYTHING. If you have a problem with how your warn was given out, or why a thread was closed; forward it to a Global Mod, and if he can't answer your question, then move up to the Supervisor. You may, or may not get the answer that you want. But at the same time, at least you have an explanation and at least they aren't banning you on the spot. If you think news is not of high enough quality, go apply for the News Team. I hear they're always accepting applications and you can help improve the news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmak Administrators Posted February 18, 2009 Administrators Share Posted February 18, 2009 We have had posts like this since we started. neowin has always been on the way down according to some, and yet we still exist and still grow. Where's the constructive part in your criticism :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spd21 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I notice, however, that those doing the complaining are the ones with warning levels.Yes - we realise and understand that we moderate here a lot more harshly than perhaps other websites do. And we do that for a reason. We want our community to be full of decent people who can debate sensibly without getting in to arguments and ruining the show for others that want to contribute. Why do we delete posts and issue warnings when members start a gigantic argument? So that others are able to participate. We fully welcome debate, but if comments are getting to the point where an argument between 2 or 3 members in a thread is taking over or deviating from the original topic - we will step in to try and get the topic back on track. Why do we warn? Because our rules say that thread de-railment is a warnable offence. At the end of the day - Neowin is not a democracy. As staff, we moderate according to our community guidelines. If you don't want to stick to them, or don't like them, then the choice is clear to find another community where you feel that you fit in better. Why do we warn about the discussion of AdBlocking? Because Neobond, the owner of this site, says that he doesn't want discussion of it, and that it should be a warnable offence. As the owner of this site - that is his prerogative to make that kind of decision. If you have a specific issue with the way something has been moderated - feel free to contact a Supervisor who can review it for you. I know what you'll be thinking "Yeah - you'll just side with whoever dished out the warn". I can assure you there have been plenty of occasions where warnings have been overturned. At the end of the day - it'd be better to talk to someone who can help with the issues you're having than posting a rant in a public forum thread. i wont go into detail on a public thread but surely giving two warns for the same thing is ridiculous, would it not have been better to warn and then suspend for a day instead of two warnings and a suspension, sometimes peoples logic is really not right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 they sure like giving out warnings for minor things, absolute joke really Well then you're doing something wrong.. I have been on Neowin since the dark ages.. and the only warn I ever got was from having a 300kb Signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mystic MVC Posted February 18, 2009 MVC Share Posted February 18, 2009 I think Neowin's getting better - especially the front page. Original content > syndication.I've not seen any heavy-handed moderation recently, either. Describes my sentiments. A couple months back there was a big push to get some more staff writers for more original content and it has really paid off. Not sure about the heavy-handed moderation, I mean I haven't really seen anything but then again I don't go and directly intend to cause arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclaren05 Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 The name of the Windows 7 ISO was given in the forums and it was deleted. Reason being that they don't support blah blah blah, yet all the info you could ever want about obtaining it was directly on the front page.Personally, I really don't care about the petty flame fests that go on, but the double standards do irk the hell out of me. The Windows 7 ISO is a public beta. It is legal. YesNot all, but some mods tend to oversight posts deserving a warning because they are +. Members aren't helpful as they used to be, the new number 1 response is "google for it" or that let me "google it for you" link +1 on this post. Secondly, there is a solution to EVERYTHING. If you have a problem with how your warn was given out, or why a thread was closed; forward it to a Global Mod, and if he can't answer your question, then move up to the Supervisor. You may, or may not get the answer that you want. But at the same time, at least you have an explanation and at least they aren't banning you on the spot. If you think news is not of high enough quality, go apply for the News Team. I hear they're always accepting applications and you can help improve the news. Some staff never PM you back. That is very very uncalled for. Even if the message is "**** you (mods name here) or "the weather is sunny", a staff member should ALWAYS reply to you about your doubts. I tried applying once for the very reason that most news that is posted is either very old (talking about it has been posted on other tech sites) or important news never gets the frontpage attention it needs. You think I (or anyone else) was given a trial run at least? Nope. We have had posts like this since we started. neowin has always been on the way down according to some, and yet we still exist and still grow.Where's the constructive part in your criticism :) My (and others) suggestions and comments on what we do not think is correct is the constructive part in my criticism. I do thank you as a admin that you have posted/replied in this thread. Even though something exists and grows, that doesnt mean it is heading towards a good/better thing (a tumor for example) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+shift. MVC Posted February 18, 2009 MVC Share Posted February 18, 2009 Some staff never PM you back. That is very very uncalled for. Even if the message is "**** you (mods name here) or "the weather is sunny", a staff member should ALWAYS reply to you about your doubts. I'm not sure where you're coming from with that. But if anyone PM'd me with a message with "**** you" I wouldn't bother replying. Moderators are people too. With that said, I've gotten a reply from every mod that I have had to PM. Remember, at one point or another they were regular members just as yourself. I tried applying once for the very reason that most news that is posted is either very old (talking about it has been posted on other tech sites) or important news never gets the frontpage attention it needs. You think I (or anyone else) was given a trial run at least? Nope. One problem about news being posted on other tech sites is that will almost ALWAYS be the case. You'll find stuff on CNET News that you'll find again on PC World, and again on DailyTech and again on Neowin. That is unavoidable IMO. I can't really comment on not getting a trial run for being on the News Team as I'm not sure on how the application process works. Maybe Marshalus can answer that for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-KJ Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I personally think Neowin has gotten better since I first registered.When I first joined I had a lot of criticism thrown my way and a lot of members were pretty elitist and argumentative. A lot of that has disappeared now. I feel more comfortable. You still have a lot of that. I could name a few members right off the bat who enjoys stirring things up (trolling) away from the main issue of the topic. I think they know who they are. Anyway, I've been a lurker of Neowin for a long time and made an account pretty recently and have become more active. But these things happen in every forum nowadays. One thing I've seen happening a lot is flaming a member for his criticism over 'x' product, even if they are somewhat legitimate. They will start banding together and replying with stupid pictures and basically make a fool of themselves and the OP. It's sad really. These are the folks who keep their sense of elitism and fanboyism closer than their netiquette. And really, netiquette should come naturally if you have proper etiquette in real life. But whatever, I know people who are arses online but are actually cool in person. It's funny what anonymity can do to you. 4Chan can paint you a big picture for that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spd21 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 oh by the way.. how long does one warning pip last? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Frank B. Subscriber² Posted February 18, 2009 Subscriber² Share Posted February 18, 2009 oh by the way.. how long does one warning pip last? Six months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+shift. MVC Posted February 18, 2009 MVC Share Posted February 18, 2009 I think around 6 months for 20%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinetix63 Veteran Posted February 18, 2009 Veteran Share Posted February 18, 2009 i wont go into detail on a public thread but surely giving two warns for the same thing is ridiculous, would it not have been better to warn and then suspend for a day instead of two warnings and a suspension, sometimes peoples logic is really not right No - that is what should have happened as far as I am concerned. If something happened and you were warned once, repeated the offence, then it is only fair that your warning level increases further and you get an additional suspension for the action. Some staff never PM you back. That is very very uncalled for. Even if the message is "**** you (mods name here) or "the weather is sunny", a staff member should ALWAYS reply to you about your doubts. EditIf this happens, please take it up with a Supervisor. You are right - any sensiblePM sent always warrants a reply. If you do not get one - take it a step further so that we CAN get your issue sorted out and speak to the staff member who decided to ignore you. However - if you send a message saying "**** you" or some other form of rubbish - don't expect a reply. Any ISSUE you bring to us will always be dealt with. I tried applying once for the very reason that most news that is posted is either very old (talking about it has been posted on other tech sites) or important news never gets the frontpage attention it needs. You think I (or anyone else) was given a trial run at least? Nope. Staffing for the news teams was dealt with by Marshalus, Tom W, and Shane Pitman. As such they need to comment on this, however they reviewed every submission that was sent to them. The "best of the best" was picked, and were offered trial runs. They wanted to reply to everyone who replied to let them know why they didn't "make the grade" so to speak, but there were that many applications they couldn't do it fairly and give everyone the amount of feedback they probably deserved. If you want to know what could've been done to improve your submission - try speaking to one of those guys who might be able to help in that department. Even though something exists and grows, that doesnt mean it is heading towards a good/better thing (a tumor for example) That's a very unfair comparison if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclaren05 Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 I'm not sure where you're coming from with that. But if anyone PM'd me with a message with "**** you" I wouldn't bother replying. Moderators are people too. With that said, I've gotten a reply from every mod that I have had to PM. Remember, at one point or another they were regular members just as yourself. It is a example. Obviously, I would not reply either. I have PMd a mod about a thread being closed (not even made by me and I didnt even post in it) and why and did not receive a answer. This is off the top of my head. One problem about news being posted on other tech sites is that will almost ALWAYS be the case. You'll find stuff on CNET News that you'll find again on PC World, and again on DailyTech and again on Neowin. That is unavoidable IMO.I can't really comment on not getting a trial run for being on the News Team as I'm not sure on how the application process works. Maybe Marshalus can answer that for you. What is unacceptable is that on Feb 1 it is on CNET, on Feb 1 at 2PM it is on PC World, on Feb 1 at 5PM it is on DailyTech and on Feb 3 at 8PM it is on Neowin. I think that is unacceptable for a site that has a "few" members like Neowin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+shift. MVC Posted February 18, 2009 MVC Share Posted February 18, 2009 Then maybe the problem with News is not that the material is posted on the front page, but rather the material is posted on the front page several days after the fact. Which is an entirely separate issue from saying that the quality of front page news needs improvement. Not taking anything away from your argument, as Neowin's front page news is in no way perfect. But I think it's at an acceptable standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dance. Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Anyway, the point is I :heart: Neowin (the orange says it :p) but I'd like to see more constructive posts from the community. I know that's hard to ask of the whole community since after all it is an online community but maybe it could be in the guidelines like -- make your post as constructive as possible. AFAIK I think the staff are doing a fine job :). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I think its gotten better. And I think judging on when I registered, I can have a good handle on that. No matter how long you supposedly lurked here. I lurked about a year or so before I joined up. I don't post near as much as I might have because its gotten bigger, but I tend to agree with whoever said that it seems to be the ones with warnings that complain. Having been a member of forums where people can do where you want, I'm okay with a little moderation to at least try to control the chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajputwarrior Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 The name of the Windows 7 ISO was given in the forums and it was deleted. Reason being that they don't support blah blah blah, yet all the info you could ever want about obtaining it was directly on the front page.Personally, I really don't care about the petty flame fests that go on, but the double standards do irk the hell out of me. you are right about that. They report every sort of news about the the ISO the leaks, and they even had their own forum dedicated to the windows 7 beta, at a time the only way you are going to get it is by pirating it. Then if you said that you are going to wait for the torrent or something you would get warned... How does that make sense? You guys don't support piracy (which you shouldn't and it's great that you don't), but i just don't get how you can turn around and make a forum about the things you are telling people they shouldn't be doing or you don't want any part of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATGC Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 What is unacceptable is that on Feb 1 it is on CNET, on Feb 1 at 2PM it is on PC World, on Feb 1 at 5PM it is on DailyTech and on Feb 3 at 8PM it is on Neowin. I think that is unacceptable for a site that has a "few" members like Neowin... You do realize you can apply to be a news writer if you despise the current news staff so much? Write your own original content, and let's see how people judge you on your articles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the evn show Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 (edited) A discussion forum has a spirit formed by it's community and it cycles with highs and lows. Lately I think there's been a bit of a down-turn but the staff are doing their damnedest to maintain the status. The problem isn't the front page content it's the discussion that follows. If I find an article ridiculous then post a response that counters it—or at least a specific portion I think is egregious— with some sort of evidence to support my disagreement: improve the article, don't add to the steaming pile by spamming the comments with nonsense. Unfortunately that's not an attitude shared by most forum members here. When mindless drivel is tolerated then the quality of discussion drops and it pulls the whole forum into the sewer. I don't really have an issue with the articles themselves, it's the comments that follow which bother me (doubly so because the ignore user feature doesn't work there). I support a huge crackdown on idiotic behavior: warnings for illogical arguments or repeated fallacies in discussion and 'fact' without substantiation in contentious threads. i wont go into detail on a public thread but surely giving two warns for the same thing is ridiculous, would it not have been better to warn and then suspend for a day instead of two warnings and a suspension, sometimes peoples logic is really not right Treat the warning system how mace/taser/etc were supposed to be used: as an alternative to deadly force (being banned) not the first step in an escalation of force that eventually leads to that. Why does it matter what your warning level is—unless you're planning to continue being ignorant of, or intentionally ignoring the rules of this site? Edited February 18, 2009 by evn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis W. Veteran Posted February 18, 2009 Veteran Share Posted February 18, 2009 If we could get rid of those same handful of users who enjoy crapping on the same threads known to cause tension, this community would improve as a whole. There's healthy debates from ordinary members, and there's driveby thread crappers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajputwarrior Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 You do realize you can apply to be a news writer if you despise the current news staff so much? Write your own original content, and let's see how people judge you on your articles. ^ i started doing that, wrote my own and what not, all original content and new, hoping that i would maybe get a chance. But as soon as they hired the new guys, who seem to be a little slow, i gave up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PricklyPoo Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Obviously I complain about everything, but tbh I think the moderation here at neowin is anything BUT harsh. The only time I've ever been warned was for posting a picture with swear words, etc....I basically just forgot that swearing isn't allowed but w/e. The point is, I argue all the time here and see a lot of other people get away with a lot of stuff too. I really don't see any problem. :huh: The only change I've noticed from years ago is it seems like there were more people posting in general discussion, some other sections. Maybe I'm wrong but I always remember tons of new threads every hour (it seemed like) in general discussion and now there aren't near as many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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