Richard Hammond Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 why are you trying to defend pirate's? downloading software that costs money to buy is illegal anyway you put it, im not saying i've never downloaded anything because i have done my fair share of it but at the end of the day i know its wrong. Im not defending pirates im just against people spreading crap about how pirating software is the same as stealing the game from a shop, stealing a handbag/car/policemans helmet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toki Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Piracy is bad. No more words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayepecks Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 What annoys me is people trying to equate copyright infringement to stealing, if you pirate something you dont walk into a game shop and take it off the shelves, you just download the bits. Thats not stealing. Um, I hate to break it to you, but there doesn't have to be anything physical involved for something to be stolen. Just like military secrets can be "stolen", software can be "stolen." No you dont you pay for the media and the contents of the box, if you walk out of the store without paying for it then that is stealing.Downloading the pirated version is Copyright Infringement. You do this buy using the bits and bytes you havent paid for. Stop calling downloading a game stealing when it clearly isnt. Notice the definition of stealing doesn't say physical. Seems to me it fits. Lot of pirates may not have the money to buy the game anyway.Lot of pirates would not have brought it anyway. Lot of pirates will play few times, then left the game to the dust. Few pirates will buy the game if they like it. Therefore, only a part of these are true lost customers. It still a big money lost, for sure, and I don't condone piracy but if I would be a game creator, someway I would be happy to have my game played by 138 000 people than only 40 000. Making money is something, making people happy and knowing you did something useful to others is another thing. But in another view, seeing this may prevent company to develops more games. It may ruin company too. At least, Stardock don't waste money on DRM software. We all know that it don't prevent lot of piracy. Lots of unproven claims you're making there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacon Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 What annoys me about this is how companies treat pirates as a lost sale, just because 102,000 people are trying to play it online doesnt mean 102,000 would have bought the game if it wasnt available to pirate. It just so happens that most people (including myself) pirate games because they can't afford it. People who can't afford it and don't want to pirate simply don't play the game. Since most pirated games can't play online, as long as no one knows about it, it's like the pirated copy never existed to anyone apart from the downloader. It's not taking from profit. If anything it's costing the seeders their precious bandwidth >.> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylcard Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 The only game I find myself playing even after years of grinding the same crap is FM (granted newer versions, but still the same game) and PES, I buy them whenever I can afford to. Every other game is not worth the money (at least in my little bubble), so I'm not going to spend a work day's pay for a game that I wouldn't ENJOY playing, let alone play it at all.. Just to be clear, this "piracy" scene doesn't "promote" stealing and stuff, the scene actually want people to buy the games they release, if they're worth it, they just do it because it's fun to crack them and whatnot, not because they're modern day Robin Hood(s) Edit: Just realized I said one game and then wrote about two, but.. either way, I love them both, and buy them both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crompee Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 (edited) Im not defending pirates im just against people spreading crap about how pirating software is the same as stealing the game from a shop, stealing a handbag/car/policemans helmet. Why your arguments are the same The person stealing from a shop, couldnt afford to buy whatver they stole anyway. The person stealing from the shop, might not of brought the whatever they stole even if they had the money. The fact is, it is stealing.. you can try and sugarcoat it as much as you like but the fact still remains that its stealing. If this was EA, your main argument would be that people are only pirating it due to DRM.. in this case you cant use that argument so you've returned to the default "its not really stealing". o and the damage it does? its ruining PC gaming. The only game I find myself playing even after years of grinding the same crap is FM (granted newer versions, but still the same game) and PES, I buy them whenever I can afford to.Every other game is not worth the money (at least in my little bubble), so I'm not going to spend a work day's pay for a game that I wouldn't ENJOY playing, let alone play it at all.. Just to be clear, this "piracy" scene doesn't "promote" stealing and stuff, the scene actually want people to buy the games they release, if they're worth it, they just do it because it's fun to crack them and whatnot, not because they're modern day Robin Hood(s) Edit: Just realized I said one game and then wrote about two, but.. either way, I love them both, and buy them both. Im that type of 'pirate' (or used to be).. but at the end of the day that argument falls flat, as you could always just wait for the Demo to be released. Its also a case of while we like to think the 'piracy' scene trys to promote paying for the decent games, they dont. The vast majority of pirates dont download a game, play it and finish it.. then go out and buy it as they enjoyed it. You also cant say that the people who crack and release the games only do it for fun, as in this case there was nothing to crack. Edited April 18, 2009 by Crompee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSaimex Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Why are people saying it's loosing the company money? Like Jackman said, the pirate would either download the movie(in this case game) of the internet or go see it multiple times in cinema(in this case go and buy the game). As most are aware the game was leaked 2 days earlier than it should have, so who's fault is that? Nobody's right? **** those douche bag developers who only know how to whine at pirates, eat **** and die, there is nothing, NOTHING you can do about it, is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-KJ Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Why are people saying it's loosing the company money? Like Jackman said, the pirate would either download the movie(in this case game) of the internet or go see it multiple times in cinema(in this case go and buy the game). As most are aware the game was leaked 2 days earlier than it should have, so who's fault is that? Nobody's right? **** those douche bag developers who only know how to whine at pirates, eat **** and die, there is nothing, NOTHING you can do about it, is there? There's no way of determining exactly how much they lost, but I can guarantee you a few more copies would have been sold had piracy not existed (no piracy exists only in Utopia). People pirate for a variety of reasons, and while I can understand some of the reasons, it is still considered stealing at the end of the day. Don't try to fluff it up and mold it in line with whatever morals you carry. You know it's illegal. You shouldn't have the priviledge of playing the game if you didn't buy it, so people need to stop spewing the "Well I wouldn't have bought it, anyway" crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylcard Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Well I'm pretty sure the guys on (in?) the scene don't get paid, so I can only think of one other reason to crack games.. fun (challenge). Oh and yeah, Demos are nice and all, but they're far off the complete game, I can't help but generalize the games.. but.. the final game is different than the demo. If only it was like MMORPG's, you don't see "pirates" there playing for free, but that's irrelevant, what I mean is that they should let you play the *FULL* game, like a trial (well exactly like a trial) and then you have a choice to buy that game, or not. Demos don't always show the full potential (or bugs/gameplay) of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abysal Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Well I picked up the game yesterday, it's pretty cool, except the game play for single player gets very repetitive. I think once I get my friends to try it we'll have more fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoDEAN Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Lot of pirates may not have the money to buy the game anyway.Lot of pirates would not have brought it anyway. Lot of pirates will play few times, then left the game to the dust. Few pirates will buy the game if they like it. Therefore, only a part of these are true lost customers. It still a big money lost, for sure, and I don't condone piracy but if I would be a game creator, someway I would be happy to have my game played by 138 000 people than only 40 000. Making money is something, making people happy and knowing you did something useful to others is another thing. But in another view, seeing this may prevent company to develops more games. It may ruin company too. At least, Stardock don't waste money on DRM software. We all know that it don't prevent lot of piracy. ARRRRGGGGGGGGGG.....spoken like e true pirate mate! Most pirates don't play games for long, as most quality of games these days are very poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakey Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 So piracy saved some people from buying a horrible game... sorry, what is the downside again??? if it was a good game, piracy would not affect its sales much. Steam games do just fine... Wow does fine.... If its a good game, and has great options, people will support it. I download games to test them. Most games dont have a demo, and if i want to figure out if i would like it or not, im not going to wait a month or so for a demo to come out. Ill just download the game in an hour and test it. If it runs well and is enjoyable, they got a sale. If it sucks and runs horribly, well then, I saved my money, and their lazy programing asses get a hard earned lesson of not making/selling crap. With companies protected more than the consumer in these sales, we have to do something to level the playing field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neoauld Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 this game is TONS of fun to people playing in single player..its a multiplayer game its nowhere near as fun in single to the ppl saying its not fun..its a type of game u like or hate, kinda like dota @Shakey, horrible? i think not, everyone has different tastes, and its only flaw is that its aimed at a genre that less ppl play too many idiots in this thread who probably pirated it played it in single player and think its terribad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron_Hinson Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Pretty sad really - no wonder most developers are going to console only development Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoDEAN Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 ytoo many idiots in this thread who probably pirated it played it in single player and think its terribad You're funny..............not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minifig Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Pretty sad really - no wonder most developers are going to console only development Piracy is just as active on consoles, if you didn't know. Devs are going to console only development cycles because it's cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hammond Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Pretty sad really - no wonder most developers are going to console only development Why? Consoles are even easier to pirate they dont have copyprotections so you dont have to wait for cracks for games and you can play them online without the need for a retail CDKEY. At least for the Wii and 360. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron_Hinson Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Why?Consoles are even easier to pirate they dont have copyprotections so you dont have to wait for cracks for games and you can play them online without the need for a retail CDKEY. At least for the Wii and 360. There is a far lower rate of piracy on consoles despite what you may or may not believe, PC users don't have to chip their machines, no-cd cracks etc are easy to come by, so it doesn't take any knowledge to get pirated games. On a console you tend to need to get them chipped, something most buyers won't do - you certainly won't see an 80% piracy rate on any console even those that are chipped that is for sure. When Crytek stated that there was a massive 70% + piracy rate for Crysis it was pretty obvious why they said they won't ignore consoles anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLaughingMan Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Looks cool but will there be more than just 8 heros to pick from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neoauld Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 There is a far lower rate of piracy on consoles despite what you may or may not believe, PC users don't have to chip their machines, no-cd cracks etc are easy to come by, so it doesn't take any knowledge to get pirated games. On a console you tend to need to get them chipped, something most buyers won't do - you certainly won't see an 80% piracy rate on any console even those that are chipped that is for sure.When Crytek stated that there was a massive 70% + piracy rate for Crysis it was pretty obvious why they said they won't ignore consoles anymore. um i laughed when they said they had such high piracy cause theyre game gets boring fast, has insane system requirements really everyone played crysis just to say "i can run it huwway!!!"...thats it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayepecks Posted April 19, 2009 Author Share Posted April 19, 2009 It just so happens that most people (including myself) pirate games because they can't afford it. People who can't afford it and don't want to pirate simply don't play the game. Since most pirated games can't play online, as long as no one knows about it, it's like the pirated copy never existed to anyone apart from the downloader. It's not taking from profit. If anything it's costing the seeders their precious bandwidth >.> You can afford to subscribe to Neowin, but not afford to buy games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minimoose Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 You can afford to subscribe to Neowin, but not afford to buy games? Because a subscription to neowin is really that expensive... But I agree, if he's trying to save money then a subscription to neowin should be the last thing he does, he talks as if he is poor, but I doubt any poor person would need to subscribe to a forum :/ Yes it supports neowin, but then doesn't buying games support the developers/whoever who spent years developing the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayepecks Posted April 20, 2009 Author Share Posted April 20, 2009 Because a subscription to neowin is really that expensive...But I agree, if he's trying to save money then a subscription to neowin should be the last thing he does, he talks as if he is poor, but I doubt any poor person would need to subscribe to a forum :/ Yes it supports neowin, but then doesn't buying games support the developers/whoever who spent years developing the game? That's what I'm saying. If you have the spare cash to subscribe, I'm sure you can save up money enough to buy the games you really want. If you can't afford them, wait for them to hit the bargain bin. A lot of people in this topic seem to think they have some sort of unalienable right to play the best games out there by stealing them (because, yes, it is stealing; stealing does not have to be of physical property for whoever tried to use that lame definition excuse), which is pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O.G Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) The legal definition of theft (at least in the UK) is obtaining another persons property with the intention of depriving them of the use of that property. Such definitions are further defined with terms such as TANGIBLE. Information or ideas are not TANGIBLE in the legal sense and can therefore not be stolen in the legal sense. Why do you think people are sued for copyright infringement and not charged with theft? Because it is not theft. Copyright infringement is not theft either. You seem to be confusing moral opinion with legal fact. If you shoplift an item from a store, you have deprived that store of something that they paid for, something that it will cost them more money to replace. They are out of pocket in REAL terms. If someone walks into a store and buys a game, they have deprived the store of nothing, the store got what they expected to get for that item (likewise upwards through the distribution chain). If you then take it home and make a copy of that item and put it on the internet then you have infringed copyright, but you have stolen nothing and no one is out of pocket. If you download the item that person made available, you have not commited copyright infringement unless you start sending data to others and you have not deprived the store of the original sale (and not all file distribution methods require you to upload data either). There may be a feeble argument as to wether anyone else in the distribution chain, namely publisher/developer is out of pocket as a result of you downloading it but then we enter into the realms of fiction and hypotheticals. You "hypotheticaly" stole something because you "possilbly" would have bought the item you downloaded, so "maybe" you have deprived someone of income. "Maybe" depriving someone of income is a far cry from actually stealing something tangible. There is no property to replace, and as such there is no loss except an imaginary loss in a fictional scenario where you hypotheticaly stole something that did not physically exist to be stolen. Edited April 21, 2009 by O.G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popsmear Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 this game is TONS of funto people playing in single player..its a multiplayer game its nowhere near as fun in single to the ppl saying its not fun..its a type of game u like or hate, kinda like dota @Shakey, horrible? i think not, everyone has different tastes, and its only flaw is that its aimed at a genre that less ppl play too many idiots in this thread who probably pirated it played it in single player and think its terribad The game is "fun". However it is buggy as hell and its main function (multiplayer) is very very poorly thought out and coded. Not to mention that they are going for a completely competitive vibe and missed the target completely. I hope they can turn it around but right now it's not what it should be. And yes, I paid $40 for it. Sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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