Windows Live Messenger 2009 and the Windows 7 taskbar - Discuss


  

203 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you prefer the default behaviour where the Messenger icon is no longer in the system tray?

    • Yes
      99
    • No
      104


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Okay, so I have seen many threads asking how to get back the old behavior with regards to how Messenger works with the Windows 7 taskbar, but I haven't seen an actual thread for proper discussion on this issue and an explanation of why people hate this so much.

With Windows Live Messenger open, there had always been a window in the taskbar (until you closed it). In previous versions of Windows there was also an icon in the system tray, which, to me, is very redundant. It made sense to merge these into one and it also makes sense, to me, for the icon in the taskbar to display all of the notifications, rather than have a smaller, more hidden, icon in the system tray handle these notifications.

After all, the taskbar is there to handle and show your running tasks, so why do so many people hate the fact that it shows Messenger...a running task? :huh:

It is not a pointless icon - it shows much more than just about any other icon in the taskbar. It shows your status and whether you are even signed in or not; just like Windows Live Mail helpfully shows if you have a new message. If you think it is pointless to have the Messenger icon in the taskpane, why don't you think it is pointless to have the Firefox icon there, or the Microsoft Word icon there?

Finally, the taskbar is now made for people to pin their recently used/favourite applications. So, why aren't so many of you pinning Windows Live Messenger?

I use it the majority of the time I am on my computer, however sometimes I do not, but when I'm using it, I like being able to quickly glance down and see what I have set my status as. I also like to glance down and see if I have any new emails in Windows Live Mail. If both of these things were hidden away in the system tray, I would not be able to see them until I pressed the 'up' arrow on the system tray. Showing icons in the system tray at all times is not an option, for me, as the icons are smaller than those in the actual taskpane and it looks very untidy. It makes sense, to me, to have these icons larger and in the taskpane with the rest of the running applications. After all, these are running applications :rolleyes:

I understand this may seem like a bit of a rant, but it isn't :) I'd like a nice discussion on this and maybe try and understand why so many people hate what I think is a major improvement :)

So, discuss away :D

Edited by Calum
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I dont consider it a major improvement... :no: I dont like the messenger sitting in the taskbar, I just dont, I dont need it there... It just bugs my sight and I always want to close it, sometimes I mistaken the chat window with the actual app and I have to start it up again... :wacko:

It is not a pointless icon - it shows much more than just about any other icon in the taskbar. It shows your status and whether you are even signed in or not

OMG... the tray icon shows all that stuff too... ;)

....If both of these things were hidden away in the system tray, I would not be able to see them until I pressed the 'up' arrow on the system tray....

Duh... Just make it "always show"... And you wont have to press the arrow...

Showing icons in the system tray at all times is not an option, for me, as the icons are smaller than those in the actual taskpane and it looks very untidy.

..... One icon.. its just one icon, and it takes less space than the one in the taskpane... :rolleyes:

It makes sense, to me, to have these icons larger and in the taskpane with the rest of the running applications. After all, these are running applications

Oh yea... thats logical... (sarcasm) :rolleyes:

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I have set in vista compat mode because I don't see the need to have 2 windows, one for the display pic and one of the contact list. If they made it so when you clicked on it and it opened the contact list, it removed the display pic window I take it out of vista compat mode.

There is no difference between it being in the tray and being on the superbar except the 2 window thing I just said so why not remove the annoyance of the 2 windows when you lose nothing?

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If you've got two windows in the taskbar preview pane then you're not closing the window properly. You need to click the X (close) button not the minimse button.

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If you've got two windows in the taskbar preview pane then you're not closing the window properly. You need to click the X (close) button not the minimse button.

I know that, but if I want to leave the contact list open, when going back to it I can't just click on the superbar button like I can when it's in vista compat mode.

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I know that, but if I want to leave the contact list open, when going back to it I can't just click on the superbar button like I can when it's in vista compat mode.

+1.

I agree its daft having it use 2 taskbar buttons to display one window. This is the only app that behaves differently. With all other applications, for each taskbar item, there is a corresponding window - thats what the taskbar is for, not for displaying "your running programs". That is too loose a term - so, you would display your AV in there too? Thats a running program.

This is exactly what the tray is for - running programs that you dont need all the time. With MSN, you dont always have your contact list open when the program is running, but you need to open it in order to do most functions - so the tray is a nice repository for the program while its running, but doesnt have a viewable window. Having it on the taskbar violates the above "law", as I said.

The good thing is, they are at the moment leaving us with the option of both - we can easily set it to Vista compatibility mode and itll suffice.

But having one window/program represented by 2 taskbar buttons is beyond me, just a waste of screen real estate, seeing as most people running Windows 7 will also run MSN.

Instead of "change it", im going to say "include the option" of setting it to tray mode, the current mode, or single button mode - have the button display your picture and act as the "tray" option when the contact list is closed, but then morph into the contact list options when that is opened (and at the same time perform functions the tray icon normally would - merge it all).

Now with that, everyone can be happy :)

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I dont consider it a major improvement... :no: I dont like the messenger sitting in the taskbar, I just dont, I dont need it there... It just bugs my sight and I always want to close it, sometimes I mistaken the chat window with the actual app and I have to start it up again... :wacko:

[sarcasm] If you don't need Messenger there, why do you need your web browser there? What is the point in having your word processor sitting in the taskpane? Whilst we're at it, isn't it silly that they put Windows Media Player (a running task) in the taskpane, along with the rest of the running tasks? [/sarcasm]

Do you see what I am saying? :)

OMG... the tray icon shows all that stuff too... ;)

Yes, but if you read what I'm saying, I don't see a point in having it in the tray - all of the running applications are now in the taskbar, along with any notifications they now wish to make (if the software developer takes advantage of the new APIs)

Duh... Just make it "always show"... And you wont have to press the arrow...

Yeah, an extra click. Something I would not like to do when I would like to quickly glance down to see what my current status is and even change my status

..... One icon.. its just one icon, and it takes less space than the one in the taskpane... :rolleyes:

One icon which looks horrible when it is next to all of the nice white icons for the battery, volume and Action Center. I can't stand inconsistency and to have one icon down there which isn't consistent (when it should be in the taskpane with the rest of the running applications anyway) would annoy me very much.

Oh yea... thats logical... (sarcasm) :rolleyes:

How is it not logical? All of your running applications are in the taskpane - Firefox is there. Windows Explorer is there and it let's you know the progress made when copying files. Windows Live Mail is there and it lets you know when there is a new email message. Why not have Windows Live Messenger there, letting you know your status and other information?

That, to me, is very logical. What isn't logical is hiding the running instance of Windows Live Messenger away in the system tray and making the icon smaller, unlike the rest of the running applications.

I have set in vista compat mode because I don't see the need to have 2 windows, one for the display pic and one of the contact list. If they made it so when you clicked on it and it opened the contact list, it removed the display pic window I take it out of vista compat mode.

There is no difference between it being in the tray and being on the superbar except the 2 window thing I just said so why not remove the annoyance of the 2 windows when you lose nothing?

That is a very valid point and I understand this completely. I'm not too bothered about this myself although when I think about it, it probably would be more convenient to go straight to the contact list. Other than this, I don't see why people are complaining about Windows Live Messenger (a running task) being in the taskpane with the rest of the running tasks :)

I agree its daft having it use 2 taskbar buttons to display one window. This is the only app that behaves differently. With all other applications, for each taskbar item, there is a corresponding window - thats what the taskbar is for, not for displaying "your running programs". That is too loose a term - so, you would display your AV in there too? Thats a running program.

This is exactly what the tray is for - running programs that you dont need all the time. With MSN, you dont always have your contact list open when the program is running, but you need to open it in order to do most functions - so the tray is a nice repository for the program while its running, but doesnt have a viewable window. Having it on the taskbar violates the above "law", as I said.

You're right about the "running programs" part. It is too loose a term and programs shown in the taskpane are ones which have a corresponding window. Your examplw of the anti-virus is spot on. I missed that, thanks for bringing it to my attention :)

I think with Windows Live Messenger, it doesn't matter too much whether you need the window all of the time as it is like that with any window. When you are not writing in a Word window and are having a break from work, you don't need the Word window. When you are listening to music from a playlist and not changing tracks, you don't need the media player's window.

This is the same as the Messenger situation, except if you are signed in to Windows Live Messenger as 'Available', it is quite likely you will be talking to someone/people anyway; there is going to be an icon for Messenger in the taskbar at that point, so why have it appear and disappear all of the time? Why not keep it there and that way you can remove the redundant icon in the system tray.

Even though you are totally correct in what the system tray is used for, I can't help thinking Microsoft are moving away from this idea and using the taskpane for everything now and in my opinion that makes much more sense :)

Edited by Calum
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I like the way WLM adapts to Windows 7 taskbar. They need to fix couple of things though,

- Make single thumbnail for taskbar Window (closing the contact list window shouldn't close it but just minimize)

- The jump list should have option to sign out - I need this when I want to sign off from other locations. In fact they need to include the whole right-click menu there.

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If no one likes it, then why don't you go to the old MSN? Version 8is better than the 2009 version IMO.

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Calum, because I dont need It there.. I just dont... I can see my status perfectly when its sitting in the tray (not that i care much about it anyway)... I have messenger set to set my status as 'away" when im afk for a while and it automatically sets it to "busy" when im playing or watching fullscreen movies... And if i need to set the status manually (which i dont do at all cuz i dont care) i just right click on the tray icon and thats all...

I have all my "best buddies" contacts (ppl with whom i chat all the time) on desktop (messenger plus)... so if i need to talk to em, i dont even need to open the main window...

And why do you always compare Messenger to apps like Word or Firefox ??? Its not the same stuff... unless you use your browser for chat... Why dont you compare Messenger with NOD32 or DaemonTolls for instance.. they are "always" running apps, why not place em onto the pane... ??? I have Messenger set to startup when i boot into windows so i dont have to start it up manually... And I hardly open main window at all, so why do I really need it there...

Tray is there for a reason... Pinning stuff to taskbar is like creating a shortcut on the desktop, but its more advanced...

I dont know if you have your Messenger window always open or maybe you like to open it all the time or set status from the main window, then maybe you need it there, but I think you are just making your experience more complicated... thats my personal opinion...

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I rarely use Messenger but I always have it running. That way, I can see when other people sign in and other people can see that I'm signed in. I don't check it constantly (why would I need to?) and the pop-up messages that alert me when a contact is available are good enough. As far as I'm concerned, the only place for an application that's used in this way is the system tray, not the taskbar. As others have said, it's like antivirus in this respect i.e. an application that you don't need to have constantly bothering you.

Unless I'm actually conducting a conversation there's no reason to see Messenger in the taskbar and it's not at all like your browser or a word processor (those are just silly analogies).

To top it all off, in it's idle state the application doesn't even have a window in the taskbar. It just sits there taking up space and distracting attention without serving any useful purpose. If you really have to have it wasting your time in the taskbar then let MS make that an option but the default should be to use the system tray.

I doubt I will use it at all once Windows 7 comes out because of the new behaviour and MS need to be careful in case too many other people feel the same way.

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If they'd remove the second "window" for the profile pic, and instead made it just control the contact list I'd be fine with the new way. It's more 7-y. It's just stupid the way it has the 2 windows, and forces you to click twice to get to the contact list when you don't have any chat windows open.

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I love the new taskbar.

Removes all the necessary quick launch crap and overbloated multi explorers on the taskbar.

Everything is cuddled up nicely in win7 taskbar.

I only need to push the mouse to the app and open the window i need.

Its perfect.

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i like it, but then the profile pic gets annoying. takes longer to open the contacts. i just set it to vista mode and then pinned it to taskbar. that way I just click once and the contacts appear

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I know that, but if I want to leave the contact list open, when going back to it I can't just click on the superbar button like I can when it's in vista compat mode.

I think you find you can if you get the settings right. Seems people don't know what their doing, either that or I've seen something you haven't.

Anyways what's this about?

5ldr7l.jpg

Since when does 30 plus 31 make 67?

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I think you find you can if you get the settings right. Seems people don't know what their doing either that or I've seen something you haven't.

Anyways what's this about?

5ldr7l.jpg

Since when does 30 plus 31 make 67?

null votes ;)

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In my 7100 x86 running whatever the WL web installer installed for Live Messenger......I can access the jump list with sign out, change my status, etc. Also I can access the main window with one click, even if I close the main window, not minimize it. However, the contact pic still shows if you hover. That is asinine, IMO. lol

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Thank you to everybody for taking the time to discuss this. I really didn't understand why some people hated this so much, but now I do.

It seems people use the Messenger software differently. Some have it in the background and rarely use the contact list window. A lot of these people also don't want the status information in the taskpane and don't mind it hidden away in the system tray. I understand their point of view now.

I guess, because I use it differently and I find this a big improvement, I was more ignorant to how some other people use Windows Live Messenger.

I wouldn't say I constantly have use for the contact list window, but, for me, it is the same as any other window I am not currently using. Having it in the taskpane is efficient for me as I can easily see my status by just glancing down and it is always in the same spot. There aren't two icons in the taskbar and there are never two icons there (as there are the older way - one in the taskpane sometimes and one in the system tray always). It also means I can quickly hover over it to see my contact list window using Aero Peek, rather than actually clicking on it. This allows me to see if anyone in particular is online at that time very quickly.

Again, thank you for taking the time to reply and help me understand others' views. I guess we all have a different idea of what is efficient :p Hopefully the Windows Live Team will keep this as an option and allow us to use it either way as, from the poll, it seems there is an equal divide almost.

Edited by Calum
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Calum, :)

Try Messenger Plus, it really helps ;) Specially "contacts on desktop" feature... Just use that for contacts with whom you chat frequently...

Good bump, good discussion :D ;)

Have fun :)

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Not that I use Messenger that much but I don't care for the change. I don't need a jumbo icon to relay the information the little one managed in the past with flying colors. I also don't care for the mash of windows it creates (really, one for my avatar and the main program).

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I hate it being on the taskbar, and run it in system tray through Vista compat mode.

I use Messenger alot, but not enough to keep it there all the time. I can double click on it in the system tray and get the contact window up. When it's always sitting on the taskbar, I personally find is distracting. Media player sitting on the task bar is also distracting. That's why I use Winamp, and minimize that to the system tray as well.

I only want applications that I'm actively using to be open in the taskbar. Chat windows, fine, ones which I'm using can sit there. Web browsers you actively use, same with Visual Studio and Putty, those are sitting in the taskbar, but I feel chat apps and things, should remain unobtrusive as possible (for me).

I haven't used it in the taskbar for a while (since the beta came out), but I didn't like the main avatar window (useless), and the jumplist pretty useless I think too, since it's all in the tray icon.

I'm very minimalist when it comes to some things (for instance, I have no icons on my desktop), and on the taskbar I just have the main apps I use often, the rest stay in the start menu.

I think there should be an option in WLM, versus running it in compat-mode, on whether it stays in the taskbar or system tray, or both. Winamp has had this option for years, and Trillian as well.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I've also put it in Vista Compatable mode - I cannot stand it constantly sat in my taskbar.

MS must include an option for turning that annoying feature off, in future.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The matter for me isn't if the icon is the in tray or in the taskbar, the problem is the double window when the contact list is open, it's annoying.

I'm more used to the icon in the tray, but I found no problem at all with the icon in the taskbar. But I think the display picture should be replaced by the contact list window (which for me is "the WLM main window") when it's open. But I think an option would be the ideal solution.

One actual problem with the icon in the taskbar, is when one use the "Combine when taskbar is full" or "Never combine" options in the taskbar properties, which shows a large button when all the WLM windows are closed.

By the way, one misconcept I saw here was "taskbar is for running applications", but the way it aways was implemented in past versions of Windows was to display open windows, running applications are supposed to be in the tray if they have something to "offer" (status information, notices, options, commands, etc.) and if not, they must be in the task manager and nowhere else. But I don't know if this implementation is supposed to change in Win7 or not.

Side note: Mac OS X's Dock behavior is to show running applications, with or without windows. Maybe is Microsoft trying to replicate that behavior? (please, I'm not intended to flame)

EDIT

One thing they must do is to add the ability to pin contacts, I think it would be a very clever use to the jump list.

Edited by Rafa Soares
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My Messenger icon is always pinned anyway, so it's better to spend less horizontal space, no widescreen here.

Although I noticed that the right click, when you want to change your status, it lags a bit.

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