My first trial with Ubuntu 9.04

[Zapadlo]

Sorry, but that's bs, you still need to restart Linux whenever there is a kernel security update, or when new graphics card drivers are installed. While Windows does need a reboot with certain stuff, drivers are quite seamless and don't need to restart the computer to get them to work.

You do indeed need to restart on Kernel and drivers updates but the scale vastly differs. You need to restart at least a couple of times when you first update. And each time you get new video drivers, only for Windows they come out every few weeks.

Point being updating process is longer on Windows and more time consuming. Albeit requiring no cli interaction or thinking on behalf of the user.

[DavidM]

The HowToForge Linux Tutorials site has a great series called "The Perfect Desktop" that walks you through step by step on how to get a Linux desktop that will easily replace Windows. Here's a direct link to the Ubuntu 8.10 Desktop series, it hasn't been updated for 9.04 yet, but I'm sure it will give you a good starting point.

You also have to understand you are "learning a new operating system", try and use only Ubuntu for a week and then judge it. You didn't quit using Windows when it wasn't working perfectly for you after one try. I'm sure you read manuals or ask people questions, to figure out how to do what you needed to do. The best way to learn something is to explore and discover something for yourself, Ubuntu has a big community and I'm sure someone somewhere has already ran into your problem or issue and would gladly tell you how to fix it. Don't forget to ask here @ Neowin, we've got some good Linux people here, who will be helpful and probably won't laugh at you. ;)

Everyone starts with little or no knowledge about Linux, but it's still converting people everyday. Good Luck.

[markwolfe Veteran]

Sorry, but that's bs, you still need to restart Linux whenever there is a kernel security update, or when new graphics card drivers are installed. While Windows does need a reboot with certain stuff, drivers are quite seamless and don't need to restart the computer to get them to work.

Ummm... Zapadlo didn't say you never needed to reboot Linux. :unsure:

Where did you think he said that? He just pointed out the number of reboots you typically see on Windows systems (though Microsoft has gotten much better).

As far as the original "evaluation", it wasn't very good, and I think most of it has been covered here already. Most of it was stuff like whining how "xxxx isn't like Windows", or where the reviewer missed things like the help icon and just gave up and started complaining.

On the other hand, this was a review specifically of the "netbook" remix which is pretty new, and does need some polish at properly detecting and configuring webcams and wireless. I have seen several posts and such online where the install went fine, but wireless didn't come up automatically. Typically connecting with the hard port and issuing a command to get ndiswrapper or such will resolve the issue, but it is a valid complaint to make that end users may run into these bumps and it will take someone without Linux experience a while to find the solution.

My opinion of this article? A poorly done review, but with a few gems of truth buried in a pile of rubbish. But it would be equally erroneous to dismiss the entire review because of the pile or garbage, as it would be to call Linux a pile of garbage. ;)

[rkenshin]

Wow, I can't believe that person had that much difficulty with it.

The first time around with 9.04, I used Wubi to install it over Windows. I wanted to test it out without messing with my drive's or partitions until I saw that I liked it (of course, I could have also just used the LiveCD option ... duh).

In any case, after really like the OS, I installed it on my laptops (Dell E1505) old hard drive using the ext3 partition (Using Windows 7 on my primary drive). With hard drives being easy to swap out instantly on laptops, it was a good idea. The booted from the CD, inputted a few responses, and Ubuntu installed flawlessly without any problems at all (but I am annoyed with my WiFi LED blinking on activity instead of just being solid).

[chrisj1968]

IMHO. if linux as a whole designed it's OS'es to simplify installing apps or commercialize how easy it is to use, perhaps linux would see a larger increase in usage.

But people have used windows for so long that it is easier and that's what people like/want.

Also, applications would have to be built for linux. photoshop would help speed up linux adoption if it would offer a linux flavor. Wine isn't the best way to go.

[markwolfe Veteran]

IMHO. if linux as a whole designed it's OS'es to simplify installing apps or commercialize how easy it is to use, perhaps linux would see a larger increase in usage.

...

Synaptic is a program that is like a huge shopping mall of software, all sorted into categories, and with a search function.

What could be easier? Especially when the package manager keeps all of these apps updated on your system for you. One of the biggest problems on Windows systems is that people install an app, and while they keep their system updated through the Windows updater, the app may have had a flaw that was subsequently fixed, and the user is left unaware that they have an exploitable flaw installed that has a released fix. After using Linux for 5 years, there is no way I would go back to an OS that did not keep my entire install updated with the latest fixes in every app I have installed.

...

Also, applications would have to be built for linux. photoshop would help speed up linux adoption if it would offer a linux flavor. Wine isn't the best way to go.

(Y) Indeed. However, there is only an estimated 1% desktop market for Linux. It's the chicken and the egg thing. Vendors don't want to work to port to Linux unless there is a market, and many people won't enter that market unless vendor support is there.

[rob.derosa]

Sure you can do that, but Pidgin still won't work if you dont install the following as well. While many of these features you actually don't need, I still couldnt get the damn thing to run without installing them all. The update will fail itself if you dont list which ones to avoid. If update fails on the ones you want, you have to go back and install it and then redo the update process all over again.

Pidgin is installed by default, and updates don't take that long. I've never had to install any of those plugins.

[Titoist]

Pidgin is installed by default, and updates don't take that long. I've never had to install any of those plugins.

Yes, pidgin is installed by default. My experience is based on Ubuntu 8.04 and upgrading Pidgin from the installed version to the latest version.

Installations in Ubuntu vary depending on company and program. I find that amateur made programs are extremely difficult to install and even confusing, however commercial programs made by corporations such as OpenOffice can be installed as easily as it is on Windows.

Canonical makes most of their money from support. If they were to provide guides and wizards that explain everything, they wouldn't make any money.

[Zapadlo]

Yes, pidgin is installed by default. My experience is based on Ubuntu 8.04 and upgrading Pidgin from the installed version to the latest version.

Why were you doing that?

[markwolfe Veteran]

Why were you doing that?

Shhh... To make things difficult so he could complain ;)

Some people insist on doing things the "Windows Way" in Linux, which makes things more difficult.

[Budious]

If you had spent as much time trying to learn how to use Linux as you did writing this rant about it, you might have had better success. You're take on it is I bought the textbook on subject X, thus I now must know subject X, without taking the time to read the textbook on subject X and then wonder why you fail the exam. I wish my managerial accounting class worked that way. :rolleyes:

[Syanide]

Note: Below is a lengthy opinionated article about the new release of Ubuntu 9.04 I rant, I complain and "judge" how the new operating system from Ubuntu does. You can find the full article on my blog - http://www.mangochico.com/my-first-trial-w...buntu-hopeless/

Source - Mango Chico

Any comments and suggestions are welcome! ;)

Horrible review, but at least you were honest about being biased in the first place.

I just have one question, were you really real about partitioning? I can even understand people being confused with the Synaptic/Program manager approach to installing stuff, but the whole OS installation is probably one of the easiest things I've ever seen, and the partition manager is something kids could use.

There are like two things you need to do:

1) Make a partition, min. 4 GB, format it as ext3 filesystem, use as /

2) Make a partition that is approximately twice the size of your RAM, use as swap

If you ever decide to give it another shot, try this guide:

http://www.johannes-eva.net/index.php?page...tu_guide_jaunty

It covers everything a newbie might deal with, plus its written from a perspective of a Windows user, and the writer isn't some sort of hardcore console purist douschebag.

Seriously, Linux can be a lot of fun, if you give it an honest try and not just look for what you might dislike.

[Solid Knight]

I'm not a fan of Linux but once you figure out how to install software on Linux it's pretty friggin' easy. It just that once you start venturing out of your distro's repository you can run into trouble. But yeah, back in the day it took me a long time to figure out that I couldn't just download a file and install it (this was back in the day when packages were new). It's definitely an unexpected way of doing things but once you know it then it's easy.

By the way, you can copy and paste commands into the CLI and really it's not that long if you type it: sudo apt-get install something

I take it this was your first spin with Linux?

[Silencer]

Horrible review, but at least you were honest about being biased in the first place.

I just have one question, were you really real about partitioning? I can even understand people being confused with the Synaptic/Program manager approach to installing stuff, but the whole OS installation is probably one of the easiest things I've ever seen, and the partition manager is something kids could use.

There are like two things you need to do:

1) Make a partition, min. 4 GB, format it as ext3 filesystem, use as /

2) Make a partition that is approximately twice the size of your RAM, use as swap

If you ever decide to give it another shot, try this guide:

http://www.johannes-eva.net/index.php?page...tu_guide_jaunty

It covers everything a newbie might deal with, plus its written from a perspective of a Windows user, and the writer isn't some sort of hardcore console purist douschebag.

Seriously, Linux can be a lot of fun, if you give it an honest try and not just look for what you might dislike.

I had no problems installing or partitioning my drive. The only headache I got was when I deleted the Ubuntu partition and thats when things got messy especially with the Ubuntu Boot Grub Error. I blame myself for not reading any guide on how to properly uninstall Ubuntu without messing my boot files.

I'll try installing Ubuntu 9.04, the desktop edition, this time with Wubi in order to free up any future problems I'll encounter with my boot files.

I'm not a fan of Linux but once you figure out how to install software on Linux it's pretty friggin' easy. It just that once you start venturing out of your distro's repository you can run into trouble. But yeah, back in the day it took me a long time to figure out that I couldn't just download a file and install it (this was back in the day when packages were new). It's definitely an unexpected way of doing things but once you know it then it's easy.

By the way, you can copy and paste commands into the CLI and really it's not that long if you type it: sudo apt-get install something

I take it this was your first spin with Linux?

I tried an Ubuntu Live CD back in 2005. I was pretty impressed back then! ;)

Moreover, somebody made a video response to my article, a certain Alan ;) Check it out -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVyhU64J2Tw

You can follow my second attempt at Ubuntu over at my blog - http://www.mangochico.com I might as well include a couple of videos!

Edited April 27, 2009 by Silencer

[Silencer]

Here's an update guys...

I installed the Desktop Edition of Ubuntu 9.04 (I installed the netbook remix initially) with Wubi this time. So far so good. I'm pretty impressed with the user interface and the flashy effects. On the other hand, I'm still a little bit disappointed with how Flash is handled in Firefox as it tends to lag up. I took the advice of some and I installed the Adobe Flash Player package with "Add/Remove". The smoothness of the video improved, however, it's still not as smooth as when the video is being played in Windows XP.

Any suggestions?

[Zapadlo]

Here's an update guys...

I installed the Desktop Edition of Ubuntu 9.04 (I installed the netbook remix initially) with Wubi this time. So far so good. I'm pretty impressed with the user interface and the flashy effects. On the other hand, I'm still a little bit disappointed with how Flash is handled in Firefox as it tends to lag up. I took the advice of some and I installed the Adobe Flash Player package with "Add/Remove". The smoothness of the video improved, however, it's still not as smooth as when the video is being played in Windows XP.

Any suggestions?

Not really, flash is not optimised for Linux, and of course running it on netbook doesn't help. There is not much you can do here.

[Silencer]

Not really, flash is not optimised for Linux, and of course running it on netbook doesn't help. There is not much you can do here.

Oh. What a bummer! However, flash videos being played in Windows XP seem to run a lot smoother compared to Ubuntu. Just like what you said, flash needs to be optimized more in Linux.

[capr]

poor guy just wanted to talk about his first experience and you people are bashing it telling him his ideals are wrong and he should stop using a computer cause your half blind family members and pets can use it fine...

[colealtdelete]

Using Ubuntu's package manager eliminates all of the "copy / pasting" for the most part. Synaptic (GUI front-end of Apt) is so simple to use, the old CLI (command line interface) argument has really become obsolete.

QFT.

I use Ubuntu (8.10) & at home (9.04). My Windows desktop is used for purely gaming at this point. But, I'm loving Ubuntu. 9.04 it's fantastic.

[Riz360]

It's not perfect but it's free and it shouldn't have to work like XP.

It's improving all the time as well, it needs to be learnt and tweaked, though I do think it is a bit of a hobby OS for the home user

[Richardarkless]

I have read the review and I have gotta say it is very biased

OBVIOUSLY a windows and mac user who has been using windows since for ever will find linux different and in their terms "hard" because they are not used to how things are in linux.

just some things to clear up

partitioning, if I am correct cant you automatically resize the windows partition in the ubuntu live cd install and choose how much space you want to give ubuntu. Didnt need to do any of that manual stuff

Ubuntu is open source so obviously there will not be any plugins for MP3 and other media format and flash because they are propietry

Installing programs in Ubuntu, Ubuntu, kubuntu and xubuntu and the thousand other flavours of ubuntu come with a package manager and an easy to use package manager called add/ remove programs which is a more graphical layer of synaptic manager which has almost everything that everyone would want to install including VLC player so no need to look for the deb file of vlc just tick and apply, If you ask me this is much more simpler than in windows where you have to go to the website, download the exe and install it

Webcam problems, that is not ubuntu or linux's fault, same can be said with vista and microsoft, they can not provide a driver for every device that has been made so manufacturers have to make drivers too.

flash problems, you had to install 3 packages, I only had to download 1 which was the macromedia flash plugin and I have found no problem with flash on linux but that doesnt mean everyone will not have a problem with flash.

If you was just going to test ubuntu out then you should have used wubi which is included on the live cd or download off the wubi.org website, its simple, just douple click the exe and it will install ubuntu without any partitioning, then just reboot and boot into ubuntu where it will begin installing ubuntu with no settings to pick and when your finished boot into windows and uninstall it in the add and remove programs in control pannel

When I decided to try ubuntu it was back when 6.10 was released and I didnt take that long to learn and get used to and once you have accomplished that then you find it to be easy to use and you dont have to worry about antiviruses, antispyware, etc but you can say the same thing about a mac but who wants to spend at least ?500 ($599) on a mac when they dont even know if they will like the operating system or not or its specs.

Hope this cleared some bits up for you

[Titoist]

I agree with everyone about the stupidity of the article. I got a chance today to install Ubuntu 9.04... and all I have to say is that it is sexy :).

[Silencer]

"stupidity"... Come on now, be nice ;)

[CentralDogma]

Why is it expected everything is to be like windows?

Just because you are used to Windows doesn't mean you should expect all other operating systems to be the same.

Either way the reviewer seemed to have a bias, but for end users who haven't used linux before they will be expecting it to work similar to windows so it's no fault of his own.

You also have to understand you are "learning a new operating system", try and use only Ubuntu for a week and then judge it. You didn't quit using Windows when it wasn't working perfectly for you after one try.

Some people insist on doing things the "Windows Way" in Linux, which makes things more difficult.

It's not perfect but it's free and it shouldn't have to work like XP.

OBVIOUSLY a windows and mac user who has been using windows since for ever will find linux different and in their terms "hard" because they are not used to how things are in linux.

You know I always here stuff like this from Linux die-hards. "Just because it's not the Windows way doesn't mean it's wrong." But it's not a problem of it not being like Windows, it's a problem of it not being intuitive. Look at Apple. They didn?t do everything exactly like Microsoft, and yet most average users can pick up a Mac and use it without any problems. OS X works without having to use google to find obscure solutions to problems or go on message boards and ask for help. And, honestly this is why most average users (i.e. those without a computer engineering degree) aren?t using Linux. If they have a problem with their computer or need to do something out of the ordinary with their computer (i.e. connect their laptop up to a projector or change an uncommon setting), and the solution isn?t readily apparent, they?re not going to spend the time to find out. They?re just not going to put up with that and use something else.

[VIVIsectVI]

You know I always here stuff like this from Linux die-hards. "Just because it's not the Windows way doesn't mean it's wrong." But it's not a problem of it not being like Windows, it's a problem of it not being intuitive. Look at Apple. They didn?t do everything exactly like Microsoft, and yet most average users can pick up a Mac and use it without any problems. OS X works without having to use google to find obscure solutions to problems or go on message boards and ask for help. And, honestly this is why most average users (i.e. those without a computer engineering degree) aren?t using Linux. If they have a problem with their computer or need to do something out of the ordinary with their computer (i.e. connect their laptop up to a projector or change an uncommon setting), and the solution isn?t readily apparent, they?re not going to spend the time to find out. They?re just not going to put up with that and use something else.

+1. We have a winner.