Should "combine when full" be the defalut option


Should "combine when full" be the defalut option  

149 members have voted

  1. 1. on the windows 7 taskbar?

    • YES!
      39
    • No way. I like the way it is now
      97
    • I could care less
      9
    • Whats combine when full?
      4


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So, do you think combine when full should be the default option on the Windows 7 Taskbar? I used to have the default way ((large) icons with no text labels) but then I gave the "combine when full" a shot and I really like it that way, and I believe it should be enabled by default.

So I want to know your thoughts on this issue. If you agree, you could join my facebook group regarding this issue. The goal is to get a petition signed for microsoft to switch the defalut view. I know It may be late in the game, but at least our vocies will be heard.

(staff, if you fell the link to the group should not be here, fell free to remove it. I wont mind. but the topic could stay for discussion)

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I personally never had a problem with the default "Large Icons" way. It's pretty easy to tell which programs are active, inactive, open, closed,etc.

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The chances of them changing the default behaviour to combine when full, after stating their intentions for keeping the setup they decided on (muscle memory being a primary factor), are lower than them switching the shell back to managed code.

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The chances of them changing the default behaviour to combine when full, after stating their intentions for keeping the setup they decided on (muscle memory being a primary factor), are lower than them switching the shell back to managed code.

Exactly.

Despite what Paul Thorrott may claim, Fitt's Law and muscle memory trumps textual labels. By far the best aspect of the improved taskbar in Windows 7 is the very fact that it's a grouping of static icons. By arranging your icons how you want and then them always staying in their exact positioning, muscle memory takes over. You can always rely on the icon to be there in the exact same spot, every time.

If you enable textual labels, you gain just a little bit more information (I would argue that you gain essentially nothing, though), but what you give up is the muscle memory. Suddenly, your icons are moving positions, creating an unreliable setting.

People aren't stupid, for the most part. They will have little trouble associating a certain icon with a program. (Especially one that they pin themselves.) Microsoft knows what they are doing, and they wouldn't have made the default what it is unless they were confident it was the better model. And it is. "Combine when taskbar is full" might be a good option for some, but it should not be the default.

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, Fitt's Law and muscle memory trumps textual labels. By far the best aspect of the improved taskbar in Windows 7 is the very fact that it's a grouping of static icons. By arranging your icons how you want and then them always staying in their exact positioning, muscle memory takes over. You can always rely on the icon to be there in the exact same spot, every time.

If you enable textual labels, you gain just a little bit more information (I would argue that you gain essentially nothing, though), but what you give up is the muscle memory. Suddenly, your icons are moving positions, creating an unreliable setting.

Same should be said about the command bar in explorer.

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Exactly.

Despite what Paul Thorrott may claim, Fitt's Law and muscle memory trumps textual labels. By far the best aspect of the improved taskbar in Windows 7 is the very fact that it's a grouping of static icons. By arranging your icons how you want and then them always staying in their exact positioning, muscle memory takes over. You can always rely on the icon to be there in the exact same spot, every time.

If you enable textual labels, you gain just a little bit more information (I would argue that you gain essentially nothing, though), but what you give up is the muscle memory. Suddenly, your icons are moving positions, creating an unreliable setting.

People aren't stupid, for the most part. They will have little trouble associating a certain icon with a program. (Especially one that they pin themselves.) Microsoft knows what they are doing, and they wouldn't have made the default what it is unless they were confident it was the better model. And it is. "Combine when taskbar is full" might be a good option for some, but it should not be the default.

+1 (Y)

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Exactly.

If you enable textual labels, you gain just a little bit more information (I would argue that you gain essentially nothing, though), but what you give up is the muscle memory. Suddenly, your icons are moving positions, creating an unreliable setting.

The more important difference isn't the text labels but that the icons aren't grouped by default! So you save one click by switching to a program that has more than one window open. And you can minimize a window with a second click on the button.

"Muscle memory" isn't the right argument here IMO. Because the old behavior also relied on this concept. But the old taskbar was dependent on time, so that the last task you started was always the most right.

The new behavior isn't perfect. For example: you have the Control Panel pinned to the taskbar with a lot other icons. Now you wanne change the wallpaper, select another image and minimize the window just to check how your desktop looks. In Vista you would know that the last taskbar button is your last task and so you can jump to that window and click "OK". In Windows 7 you now have to "search" the whole taskbar to see where your Control Panel icon is.

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Leave it as is. The only reasonable compromise is an easier way to enable a classic mode. Combine with full with pinned icons is just a muddy mess.

The problem with your muscle memory argument is that it breaks down as soon as you close your eyes. It isn't about remembering the position, its merely an extension of the grouping behavior trend we've seen for awhile now. Text is more informative if you have a limited number of windows open. The problem with MS's philosophy is that their target user has between 5-20 windows open I believe, which is why the bring to front rollover is a good solution.

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The more important difference isn't the text labels but that the icons aren't grouped by default! So you save one click by switching to a program that has more than one window open. And you can minimize a window with a second click on the button.

"Muscle memory" isn't the right argument here IMO. Because the old behavior also relied on this concept. But the old taskbar was dependent on time, so that the last task you started was always the most right.

The new behavior isn't perfect. For example: you have the Control Panel pinned to the taskbar with a lot other icons. Now you wanne change the wallpaper, select another image and minimize the window just to check how your desktop looks. In Vista you would know that the last taskbar button is your last task and so you can jump to that window and click "OK". In Windows 7 you now have to "search" the whole taskbar to see where your Control Panel icon is.

Well put. I totally agree. The new taskbar for me (someone who normally has a number of tabs open in IE, and generally less than 10 windows open overall) is much less efficient (extra cicks to pick the right window, inability to minimize IE instance from taskbar once multiple tabs are opened, etc.) for day to day tasks than the old one.

Ungrouping does somewhat bring the old functionality back but the fact that there is no official way to add the quick launch toolbar back to the taskbar and have to rely on pinned icons makes things too chaotic with pinned icons shifting up and down the taskbar as more windows are opened.

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The whole muscle memory argument falls apart for me when I have to search for the right window after clicking on the application icon.

Sure the application icon stays in the same place, but after clicking on that static icon, I have to search through a shifting list of window thumbnails anyway, so the possibility of relying on muscle memory is basically lost once I have more than a few windows of an application open, and now I have to click on/hover on an application icon first just to get to that list. It hasn't solved anything, and instead has added another layer to go through...

Despite this, I'll stick with the default settings, since it supports tabbed interfaces like IE, or hopefully Firefox soon after. Switching to the right tab directly from the taskbar is something I like. The muscle memory argument doesn't convince me, but this does since I use a web browser more than anything else.

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Nope, I've disabled it, set small icons and then I position a new toolbar below it (large icons) with all my commonly used apps. :) Much easier.

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While I'm not opposed to the "Always combine" mode, in its present state it's just badly done (e.g. running apps should be highlighted better).

That's why I prefer "Combine when full".

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I prefer the current default setting, small icons and taskbar at the top.

Everything stays exactly where I left it. The most recently opened application window is on the right of the thumbnail list, so it is easy to pick a particular one. I know what all of my icons are at a glance, and can launch or access any application window quickly and easily.

I can look at the taskbar, see what apps are open, how many windows of each app are open and how far along any file copies are without clicking on anything. I never want to give that up :)

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I prefer it the way it is currently. I find the new superbar an easier way of keeping my frequent programs I use and can easily see which are active.

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While I'm not opposed to the "Always combine" mode, in its present state it's just badly done (e.g. running apps should be highlighted better).

That's why I prefer "Combine when full".

Seriously ? back in 7000 running apps where clearly visible, with nice subtle highlight.

in 7100 running apps are so highlighted even a blind person couldn't fail to see them. makes my nice taskbar a gray mess, I want the nice 7000 highlight back.

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Seriously ? back in 7000 running apps where clearly visible, with nice subtle highlight.

in 7100 running apps are so highlighted even a blind person couldn't fail to see them. makes my nice taskbar a gray mess, I want the nice 7000 highlight back.

I don't mean the active app, which has got highlighting indeed, but running (non-active) apps in general, which have none, just a tiny transparent rectangle drawn around them which is easily overlooked.

7100 has a little improvement there, but still no proper highlighting.

I don't believe that this will sit too well with the average user - they should've done proper usability testing here.

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I don't mean the active app, which has got highlighting indeed, but running (non-active) apps in general, which have none, just a tiny transparent rectangle drawn around them which is easily overlooked.

7100 has a little improvement there, but still no proper highlighting.

I don't believe that this will sit too well with the average user - they should've done proper usability testing here.

That's what I meant to.

And I dn't think you have actually used 7100. They used to have a nice subtle but still clearly visible rectangle. In 7100 they have a big ass gradient highlight over the entire button. making the entire superbar a light gray mess.

As I said it's not a "little" improvement, if you can't see the highlight of the running apps now, you're way past blind, and it's ugly. the nice subtle rectangle in 7000 was enough, you clearly saw what was running, and it wasn't distracting and ruining the looks of the superbar.

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I could care less, I use small icons with combine when full, but its not hard to change so that's why I don't really care.

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Exactly.

Despite what Paul Thorrott may claim, Fitt's Law and muscle memory trumps textual labels. By far the best aspect of the improved taskbar in Windows 7 is the very fact that it's a grouping of static icons. By arranging your icons how you want and then them always staying in their exact positioning, muscle memory takes over. You can always rely on the icon to be there in the exact same spot, every time.

If you enable textual labels, you gain just a little bit more information (I would argue that you gain essentially nothing, though), but what you give up is the muscle memory. Suddenly, your icons are moving positions, creating an unreliable setting.

People aren't stupid, for the most part. They will have little trouble associating a certain icon with a program. (Especially one that they pin themselves.) Microsoft knows what they are doing, and they wouldn't have made the default what it is unless they were confident it was the better model. And it is. "Combine when taskbar is full" might be a good option for some, but it should not be the default.

+1 trumps Rocketdock. finally got those buggers to hold still, and don't hide em where you can't even glance!

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Actually, I don't think "combine when full" should be the default, however, here is my proposal for another taskbar option that is more logical and neat:

It is sometimes difficult to recognise the taskbar icon of unfamiliar programs with the default "Always combine, hide labels" taskbar setting. It can also be difficult to differentiate between running and non-running programs. The "Combine when taskbar is full" taskbar option sort-of solves this problem, but is not eloquent and removes much of the neatness that the default "Always combine, hide labels" taskbar adds. I actually find the "Combine when taskbar is full" option only useful and neat when the taskbar is actually full!! When full it, very logically, only shows the program name in the taskbar label and only shows the document/window instance name in live preview.

My suggestion is for an improvement to the "Combine when taskbar is full" option, except with one major difference - the taskbar buttons would always combine. It could be placed as an additional option called "Always combine" in the taskbar properties.

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