Linux usage share breaks 1% on the Client


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IT'S THE YEAR OF LINUX!!!!

lol

THE YEAR OF THE LINUX DESKTOP!?@
You mean 18 since it was even announced by Linus Torvalds that he wanted to create an OS.

1.02% now

0.68% in May 2008

0.43% in May 2007

That's still miniscule, but a 50% increase in usage year over year for the past several years.

By 2020, it might be 5%! :p

Now, back on topic.

I understand Linux have some passionately funs, but thats not enough.

From my point of view, considering how open source is working right now, and all chaos in Linux development in general i dont see any good things for Linux in the near future.

Looking at Windows 7, and comparing with Linux, seriously, Linux is just a toy... yeah, free and limited working some times, but thats all.

Of course, Linux is nice for small devices.. is normal, here is where Linux win, because small devices dont need advanced things.

Again, i dont see how Linux community could fill the gap between Linux and Windows 7... are just ears of light between them. Microsoft have invest millions of dollars in development/technologies and services and technical support. How do you think you can do that in the free world of Linux? You actually cant.

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Again, i dont see how Linux community could fill the gap between Linux and Windows 7... are just ears of light between them. Microsoft have invest millions of dollars in development/technologies and services and technical support. How do you think you can do that in the free world of Linux? You actually cant.

Why do we need to close the gap, and what gap do you refer? You just assume the typical Linux user wants a Windows experience, but if I wanted Windows then I would use it as my desktop OS but I don't. I do keep an installation of Windows handy, of course, because as you point out there are games and applications which perform poorly or not at all under WINE, but in the end I use my Linux desktop for about 95% of my general usage.

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Why do we need to close the gap, and what gap do you refer? You just assume the typical Linux user wants a Windows experience, but if I wanted Windows then I would use it as my desktop OS but I don't. I do keep an installation of Windows handy, of course, because as you point out there are games and applications which perform poorly or not at all under WINE, but in the end I use my Linux desktop for about 95% of my general usage.

No, I am not talking about "linux user" or "windows user" i am talking about END USER.

END USER want to play latest games on his ultra new graphic card, want to plug in a device and works, want nice tools and applications to do HIS work faster, want technical support, and so on. None of those are available on Linux. You see, your point of view is so destructive for linux, like almost all other linux funs. They consider themselves "linux users", what about END USER???

Please, dont even mention WINE here, you cant compare that crap with a native Windows application.

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No, I am not talking about "linux user" or "windows user" i am talking about END USER.

END USER want to play latest games on his ultra new graphic card, want to plug in a device and works, want nice tools and applications to do HIS work faster, want technical support, and so on. None of those are available on Linux. You see, your point of view is so destructive for linux, like almost all other linux funs. They consider themselves "linux users", what about END USER???

Please, dont even mention WINE here, you cant compare that crap with a native Windows application.

"End User" are users that end up using Linux as their desktop OS, not a focus group of what Windows users think Linux should become to appeal to them.

Most game developers don't consider Linux (or OpenGL) a platform to dedicate resources to at the moment, so of course, it's not going to have a broad gaming base application in the immediate future. A few developers like ID, Epic, and S2 will continue to provide Linux clients; though I'm wondering if UT3 for Linux has turned into vaporware. WINE can be considered relevant to the discussion because numerous applications run flawlessly, check appdb for compatibility. There are numerous layers of compatibility in the operating system world, like Linux compatibility layers for BSD, WoW64 (Windows with Windows x64), and the ReactOS project (full reverse Win32 implementation).

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Kick a man in the nuts and of course he'll bend over.

You can't possibly judge market share by the laptops which come with Ubuntu preloaded on them. I'm sure the majority of the people who buy said laptops just want a cheaper alternative to a netbook so that they can slap their own copy of XP or Vista on it. How can I say something like that? Well, the average computer user shopping for a PC (that is to say, a non Apple computer), they will check to make sure it says it has Windows on it.

This isn't based on sales. It's based on which browser people use to visit websites.

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It's hardware that can run Aero fine, but can't run Linux well compared to Windows. The OS is overall slower, launching applications, browsing the file system, you name it. The #1 activity anyone does on their PC is probably surfing the web, and it is painful to see an OS run so slow. File transfer operations in Windows are also faster, because I have NTFS drives, and ntfs-3g isn't that great. Yes, I'm attacking linux now, because it plain sucks, but with higher market share, hopefully the hardware manufacturers will support linux much better. You'd understand how slow linux is if you had my computer, I tried many distro's with different desktop environments, bottom line, none of them are speedy compared to XP or even Vista.

When my Linux install was behaving like that it was fixed by installing some graphics drivers. My XP install was even worse before installing the graphics drivers, it couldn't even produce a decent resolution.

Graphics problems could be tricking you into thinking it's slower to do things when in reality, it's just slow to get them on the screen. Maybe you can't fix that at the current time, but that is not the fault of Linux but your hardware vendor. Needless to say, what is going on visually is not a way to tell how fast the OS is. There is a LOT more going on behind the scenes. As someone said, there are better ways to test it ..

No, I am not talking about "linux user" or "windows user" i am talking about END USER.

END USER want to play latest games on his ultra new graphic card, want to plug in a device and works, want nice tools and applications to do HIS work faster, want technical support, and so on. None of those are available on Linux. You see, your point of view is so destructive for linux, like almost all other linux funs. They consider themselves "linux users", what about END USER???

Please, dont even mention WINE here, you cant compare that crap with a native Windows application.

Firstly: you don't need to start trolling and calling stuff "crap", it is childish. You may find it tricky to use or it may not suit your needs, but it was coded for a reason and is still being worked on and widely used. Many people would disagree that it is crap.

Secondly: I have underlined some of your statements. Please provide some evidence that end users want all of these things.

All users are not the same. Never make assumptions about what people want.

There are plenty of people who do not want to play games on their PC, or all of their PCs if they have more than one.

There are plenty of people whose work would be done just as well, perhaps even better, using Linux based tools and applications (there are many).

"FASTER" is a subjective term. Some work will always be slow anyway. For many tasks, "fast enough" is a more suitable target and Linux is certainly capable of that.

I have never had trouble plugging in a device and having it work with Linux. It's usually easier than Windows actually. Perhaps if you have something more specialist then you will struggle to source and install the drivers for it. But that is the hardware vendor's fault, it is not caused by Linux.

Technical support needs vary from user to user as well. Some need only an internet connection, some use their grandchild to phone the helplines, etc etc. Linux distros vary in the level and methods of support provided so you can't make any blanket statements about it. Sure the way Linux handles it may not suit you, but it suits many of us and it is there.

Also, why "HIS"? Women use computers as well you know ;)

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Looking at Windows 7, and comparing with Linux, seriously, Linux is just a toy... yeah, free and limited working some times, but thats all.

That has to be the funniest sentence in this thread. Tell Google and their 10,000 desktop users plus all of their server use that Linux is a toy. Tell that to Hollywood that will make that major motion picture you will go see. I bet they all need a good laugh as well. :D

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You can't dismiss what people want out of your platform then simultaneously whine about the lack of people using your system.

The biggest problem with Linux is the developer and user mentality. They want people to adjust their behaviors, reasoning, and wants rather than adjusting their platform to meet the demands of the larger market. Too many of them are incapable of being objective about their beloved platform. That kind of mentality stifles innovation and progress.

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They want people to adjust their behaviors, reasoning, and wants rather than adjusting their platform to meet the demands of the larger market. Too many of them are incapable of being objective about their beloved platform. That kind of mentality stifles innovation and progress.

Look at the other side of that and you'll see plenty of windows users requesting linux to behave like windows just because that's what they are used to. Isn't it reasonable that they find strong opposition from current linux users and devs who consider the proposed changes to be a step backwards?.

If you put everyone's demands before your own vision you'll end with a pimped steaming pile of crap that looks nothing like what it was supposed to be.

Copying other operating systems just for the sake of attracting lazy users surely doesn't push innovation either, anyway.

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While it is true that some demands are for the replication of Window's implementation I still find the Linux community in general to be dismissive of new ideas altogether. For example, I petitioned for the Hardware Manager in Ubuntu 7.04 to allow the configuration of hardware devices via the GUI and my idea was met with idiotic responses such as "Learn to use Linux" or "There are CLI tools for that" or "Just edit [some text file]". Does Windows have this capability? Yes. Does that mean if Ubuntu provided the same functionality that it'd be 1:1 with how Windows did it? Absolutely not.

Regarding vision, I really don't think there is one. You've got a series of projects--which have their own goals--that are put together to form an OS and a bunch of distros with competing on the premises of one grouping of projects being better than another grouping of projects.

Edited by Solid Knight
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While it is true that some demands are for the replication of Window's implementation I still find the Linux community in general to be dismissive of new ideas altogether. For example, I petitioned for the Hardware Manager in Ubuntu 7.04 to allow the configuration of hardware devices via the GUI and my idea was met with idiotic responses such as "Learn to use Linux" or "There are CLI tools for that" or "Just edit [some text file]". Does Windows have this capability? Yes. Does that mean if Ubuntu provided the same functionality that it'd be 1:1 with how Windows did it? Absolutely not.

Linux is not the definitive anti-moron solution so you'll find some of those there too, conforming their own vocal minority.

Regarding vision, I really don't think there is one. You've got a series of projects--which have their own goals--that are put together to form an OS and a bunch of distros with competing on the premises of one grouping of projects being better than another grouping of projects.

No, there's not a single vision, there's at least one for every distro. That's why you will never get a "linux should be this way" idea to get through easily, if anything you can get that to fit in one project's vision and hope it will be seen as an improvement and expands from there.

Else it might be implemented but still get lost into oblivion like, say, gobolinux' filesystem organization.

Edited by ichi
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You can't dismiss what people want out of your platform then simultaneously whine about the lack of people using your system.

The biggest problem with Linux is the developer and user mentality. They want people to adjust their behaviors, reasoning, and wants rather than adjusting their platform to meet the demands of the larger market. Too many of them are incapable of being objective about their beloved platform. That kind of mentality stifles innovation and progress.

Personally, I think if people don't want a to try a new way of doing things then don't use Linux. It's not for everyone. You shouldn't go into it expecting everything to change to the way you do things. Things are the way they are in Linux for a reason, even if it's not your reason.

Windows users playing with Linux is the biggest problem Linux has right now. Why can't they just stay in Windows and be happy? Why do they jump into Linux not prepared at all and then whine about the changes?

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^ Why is there a huge amount of Linux (or even Mac) users who are trying to siphon off Windows users then whine when not all of them are happy with the switch?

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No, I am not talking about "linux user" or "windows user" i am talking about END USER.

END USER want to play latest games on his ultra new graphic card, want to plug in a device and works, want nice tools and applications to do HIS work faster, want technical support, and so on. None of those are available on Linux. You see, your point of view is so destructive for linux, like almost all other linux funs. They consider themselves "linux users", what about END USER???

Please, dont even mention WINE here, you cant compare that crap with a native Windows application.

Sorry, but I just had to reply to this. You're clueless about the real world and Linux in general:

END USER want to play latest games on his ultra new graphic card - Hardcore gamers want that, not everyone.

want to plug in a device and works, - Linux does that

want nice tools and applications to do HIS work faster, - Linux has them

want technical support, and so on - Linux has that

The Linux "desktop" gets better every year. Ubuntu 9 blew me away with its ease of use and hardware support. It's miles ahead of what Linux was 10 years ago. One of my laptops is currently dual booting Ubuntu 9 and W7 RC. IMO Ubuntu has little to catch up to as it is.

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^ Why is there a huge amount of Linux (or even Mac) users who are trying to siphon off Windows users then whine when not all of them are happy with the switch?

I'm not one of them. I never try to convert anyone. If someone wants to give Linux a try I will help them. Otherwise, I leave them be. I think a lot of people who truly get Linux fall in love and try to evangelize and they do Linux a great disservice. Not everyone is ready for Linux. More and more people are, though.

Any OS can be the devil to install. Most people never experience that as they either get Windows with their new computers or they take it in and let a tech handle it. If Linux was handled the same way, instead of asking the users to do it, most normal users out there could handle Linux just fine. But that is not the Linux philosophy. Linux expects it users to want to learn.

So to put people who don't want to learn and stick them with a OS that expects it users to learn is just asking for trouble.

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Sorry, but I just had to reply to this. You're clueless about the real world and Linux in general:

END USER want to play latest games on his ultra new graphic card - Hardcore gamers want that, not everyone. True

want to plug in a device and works, - Linux does that Depends

want nice tools and applications to do HIS work faster, - Linux has them Depends

want technical support, and so on - Linux has that Depends

There are numerous devices that don't work when you plug them into a Linux OS. Many do. They are improving; however many still don't work.

Having tools and applications to accomplish your goals on Linux really depends on what you're doing. Many tools are lacking the professional level department and some tools are completely missing. For example, you can't develop XBox 360 games and a few other SDKs aren't available on Linux. Several streaming movie services, like Netflix's, don't work on Linux. Video editing applications are ****-poor on Linux. Many of the collaborative features of Office aren't available on Linux. Some tools exist, are usable, but also significantly more time consuming than their Windows or OS X counterparts as well. Centralized system administration of thousands of client computers is much more time consuming when the clients are Linux.

Support depends on your distribution and your circumstance. This scenario varies widely depending upon who you are and what you expect from support. Though, Windows support is certainly more widely available and probably more accessible than any other platform. OS X has great support in their stores if you happen to live by one. Though, if you don't live near an Apple store then it's completely irrelevant. Linux suffers from the same sort of circumstance. There can be great support if you happen to buy it or know somebody.

I may sound anti-Linux but I'm really just pointing out the reality of the situation. Linux can be used as a drop in replacement for many people however it can also be a complete and utter failure for many others. It really depends on what you want or need from your platform.

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^ Why is there a huge amount of Linux (or even Mac) users who are trying to siphon off Windows users then whine when not all of them are happy with the switch?

There's some people that can't help sharing with everyone else something they perceive as so much better. The kind of people that haven't realized yet that to find something better most often than not you actually have to find it yourself and not be "force feed" into it.

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There are numerous devices that don't work when you plug them into a Linux OS. Many do. They are improving; however many still don't work.

Having tools and applications to accomplish your goals on Linux really depends on what you're doing. Many tools are lacking the professional level department and some tools are completely missing. For example, you can't develop XBox 360 games and a few other SDKs aren't available on Linux. Several streaming movie services, like Netflix's, don't work on Linux. Video editing applications are ****-poor on Linux. Many of the collaborative features of Office aren't available on Linux. Some tools exist, are usable, but also significantly more time consuming than their Windows or OS X counterparts as well. Centralized system administration of thousands of client computers is much more time consuming when the clients are Linux.

Support depends on your distribution and your circumstance. This scenario varies widely depending upon who you are and what you expect from support. Though, Windows support is certainly more widely available and probably more accessible than any other platform. OS X has great support in their stores if you happen to live by one. Though, if you don't live near an Apple store then it's completely irrelevant. Linux suffers from the same sort of circumstance. There can be great support if you happen to buy it or know somebody.

I may sound anti-Linux but I'm really just pointing out the reality of the situation. Linux can be used as a drop in replacement for many people however it can also be a complete and utter failure for many others. It really depends on what you want or need from your platform.

Every "normal" device works in Linux nowadays. Also, if we take aside a few specific pro apps like Photoshop, everything needed for daily work (and I'm talking about maybe 80%+ of people who work with PC's) works just fine in Linux. Web, Office, Media, it's all there and it works fine.

Like you said, of course it's not the best solution for everyone, but I can certainly say it's pretty damn good for the majority of people. And it's free.

I could never use Linux as my single OS because I can't live without a few MS tools like Visual Studio. If that weren't the case I'd have ditched Windows long ago for either OSX or Linux.

And just to make it clear, I'm not saying Windows sucks. It's just that I have to pay for it, that's what sucks.

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Sorry, but I just had to reply to this. You're clueless about the real world and Linux in general:

END USER want to play latest games on his ultra new graphic card - Hardcore gamers want that, not everyone.

want to plug in a device and works, - Linux does that

want nice tools and applications to do HIS work faster, - Linux has them

want technical support, and so on - Linux has that

The Linux "desktop" gets better every year. Ubuntu 9 blew me away with its ease of use and hardware support. It's miles ahead of what Linux was 10 years ago. One of my laptops is currently dual booting Ubuntu 9 and W7 RC. IMO Ubuntu has little to catch up to as it is.

Want to plug in a device and works: Windows 7 does that. Windows VISTA did that.

want nice tools and applications to do his work faster: Windows 7, hell WINDOWS does that. They don't come built in, boohoo, it's called google and search phrase called freeware. not that hard

Want technicaly support, and so on: when Microsoft users outnumber Linux users like mad, we have infinitely more support than you.

The Linux "Desktop" is the most overrated thing in the world. Miles ahead of what Linux was 10 years ago?

Ummm. So is Windows 7 compared to 3.1? What's your point?

Windows 7 is the epitome of ease of use. Ubuntu still takes a bunch of technical skill to set up for a basic basic user.

And finally, I know this point makes no sense, but Ubuntu's type face ****es me off to no end, along with their web-rendering text. Utterly ugly. There are free alternatives to Calibri, they should use it.

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Want to plug in a device and works: Windows 7 does that. Windows VISTA did that.

Linux auto-detects and installs devices and does a good job too. Out of the box, my Sound Blaster card, my (unknown brand) network card, 4x USB PCI card, digital camera, Xbox 360 controller, and Genius drawing tablet were working. Only my nVidia card didn't work out of the box, and that took only a few minutes to fix. Getting all of my hardware working was a piece of cake. Linux does have trouble auto-detecting and installing some hardware, but Windows does too.

want nice tools and applications to do his work faster: Windows 7, hell WINDOWS does that. They don't come built in, boohoo, it's called Google and search phrase called freeware. not that hard

The person to whom you're replying was making the point that it's a mistake to say it's difficult to find nice tools and applications on Linux. Saying, "It's like that on Windows too" does not rebut his argument. Linux does have a large software catalog that one can easily search through. Open the Add/Remove Software window, search for "Writer", tick the check-box for "OpenOffice.org Word Processor Application", then click Apply. Only rarely is it difficult to find software to do one's work.

Not only is finding and installing software easy, but keeping it updated is simple too. My system checks for updates for the operating system, software, language packs, fonts, themes, icons, and more, once a day. If there are updates, I see an orange icon by the system clock. I open the updates window, tell it that I want the updates, and it gets them and installs them. Try keeping your operating system, software, fonts, themes, icons, and more updated on a Windows system without wanting to end your misery by shooting yourself in the face.

Want technical support, and so on: when Microsoft users outnumber Linux users like mad, we have infinitely more support than you.

It is important to have a certain number of users of an operating system for people to find support, but the amount of support does not continue to increase substantially as the number of users increase. When going from zero users to tens of thousands of users, the support increases substantially, but the additional support of any more users is negligible.

Ubuntu still takes a bunch of technical skill to set up for a basic user.

It takes about the same amount of technical skill to set up Ubuntu as it does to set up Windows. Any perceived difference in the ease of setting them up is due to a lack of familiarity with the system, not because of anything intrinsically difficult.

I know this point makes no sense, but Ubuntu's type face ****es me off to no end, along with their web-rendering text. Utterly ugly. There are free alternatives to Calibri, they should use it.

I agree; the default fonts are fairly unappealing. I just turn on full anti-aliasing and then download and install the fonts for Windows. The system looks pretty good after that.

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Every "normal" device works in Linux nowadays. Also, if we take aside a few specific pro apps like Photoshop, everything needed for daily work (and I'm talking about maybe 80%+ of people who work with PC's) works just fine in Linux. Web, Office, Media, it's all there and it works fine.

Eh, there are still some wi-fi and video cards that don't work (or work properly) and even some bluetooth dongles don't work. Then of course, there are TV tuners, which are fairly common place now, that don't work properly either. Multi-card readers are also hit or miss. Mine happens to only function as an SD card reader. In the case of video cards and TV tuners you could argue that they work but the way I see it, if the device can't do what it's advertised to do then it's not a full-functioning state.

80% is also pretty high. I think people seriously underestimate what users need or do especially in the business world. People may spend 90% of their time surfing the web but that doesn't mean that's all they do. Say they spend 5% of their time editing video off their HD camera. Linux pretty much fails in that department. So things might go fine for them until one day they try to work with their camera then Linux just fails. That 5% is reason enough to not switch. I think Linux advocates seriously underestimate the needs of the market.

Another thing to consider is that Linux has to offer something beyond equivalents. Being relatively equal makes it harder to siphon off users. You have to be better. Lateral moves are costly especially in the business world. Right now Linux isn't even a lateral move though, in many areas it is a step down and some advantages they once held are drying up. Stability is one (many of the bundled applications are bug ridden and unstable) and this has become less of an issue on Windows. Security has become less of an issue on Windows and in the corporate environment it's easier to set policies on Windows machines.

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