+John. Subscriber¹ Posted May 19, 2009 Subscriber¹ Share Posted May 19, 2009 Wasn't there a contest with a big prize to anyone that could write a virus for a mac? AFAIK nobody won it. The competition winners only managed to compromise a mac whilst they were at it. None of the trojans available for mac offer the amount of destruction that their Windows counterparts manage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Clown Posted May 20, 2009 Author Share Posted May 20, 2009 is this because mac was written in such a good manner or it just became that way by mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raa Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Macs get viruses? Never Mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted May 20, 2009 Veteran Share Posted May 20, 2009 is this because mac was written in such a good manner or it just became that way by mistake? Even when written in a good manner, software that immense and that huge is going to still have a fair few vulnerabilities, which could be exploited. The way Mac OS X has been coded could well be more secure than the way Windows was coded (I don't know how securely written the UNIX side of things is and the extra which Apple have added), but there will still be vulnerabilities which could be exposed and exploited. The reason why there hasn't be many, or any, is simply because of Mac OS X's market share - the users who do such things do not deem it worthwhile as they wish to effect as many people as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Clown Posted May 20, 2009 Author Share Posted May 20, 2009 Even when written in a good manner, software that immense and that huge is going to still have a fair few vulnerabilities, which could be exploited. The way Mac OS X has been coded could well be more secure than the way Windows was coded (I don't know how securely written the UNIX side of things is and the extra which Apple have added), but there will still be vulnerabilities which could be exposed and exploited. The reason why there hasn't be many, or any, is simply because of Mac OS X's market share - the users who do such things do not deem it worthwhile as they wish to effect as many people as possible. Ohh ok fair enough, thanks for the explanation :) well looks like i will stay with macs for a while then, i have only had it a weeks and it is much easier on my busy life, it is fantastic... thanks all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted May 20, 2009 Veteran Share Posted May 20, 2009 Ohh ok fair enough, thanks for the explanation :) well looks like i will stay with macs for a while then, i have only had it a weeks and it is much easier on my busy life, it is fantastic No problem :) It is a fantastic operating system, isn't it? I love Apple's hardware as well. I wish I could have a Macbook so I could have both Windows 7 and Mac OS X Leopard running on the same system :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Clown Posted May 20, 2009 Author Share Posted May 20, 2009 No problem :)It is a fantastic operating system, isn't it? I love Apple's hardware as well. I wish I could have a Macbook so I could have both Windows 7 and Mac OS X Leopard running on the same system :yes: haha yupp that was cool, i was so skeptical on spending so much money but now that i see what i have on this macbook i actually think it is kinda cheap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boz Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 I've heard this for over 4 years now but have yet to see any proof of it. And 95% of the 'trojan' talk is always announced by someone wishing to sell us their anti-virus app. Well their market share is still pretty insignificant but you can definitely see that their security threats even at 10% are higher then they were before. I can only imagine what it will look like if they reach 20 or 30 percent marketshare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Is it worth buying one? Probably not. Is it worth getting a free one? Probably. You'd be really unlucky to get some kind of infection on your Mac if you weren't running an AV, but you'd still be screwed just as hard :p If you have the hard drive space, it won't take up a noticeable amount of processing power (unless you like rendering movies in full HD, or whatever), and it makes a very small threat into no threat. Hubris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo_spook Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 The reason why there hasn't be many, or any, is simply because of Mac OS X's market share - the users who do such things do not deem it worthwhile as they wish to effect as many people as possible. I think you are trying to pass a personal opinion off as fact there, it might well be true, on the other hand it could be completely wrong, until there is more market share we won't know either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGHammer Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 I've always looked at it as nonsensical. Why should I buy a program thats supposed to detect something that isn't out there? It's *always* better to be safe than sorry. There have always been AV products for Macs (even back when they didn't use Intel processors), despite the "Macs don't get virii" horsepuckey. Besides, anytime Linux distributions have AV software available (and no, I am not joking), why would Macs (which have nearly as great a presence on the desktop as Linux distributions) be ignored? Also, consider that despite Apple protestations to the contrary, it's gotten depressingly easy to take that same vaunted OS X (and I'm talking the current version of Leopard, no less) and install it on most garden-variety desktops/notebooks/laptops (and even some netbooks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealexweb Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 The days of Mac being completely immune are well and truely over, it's not worth buying one yet but definatly get a free one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo_spook Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 It's *always* better to be safe than sorry.There have always been AV products for Macs (even back when they didn't use Intel processors), despite the "Macs don't get virii" horsepuckey. Do you know why? Macs might not have got the viruss themselves, but they was able to pass them across to their windows colleagues and so they had ant-virus software that could stop this happening in a network The days of Mac being completely immune are well and truely over, it's not worth buying one yet but definatly get a free one. Its all very well coming out with such things but it'd be helpful to have some facts to back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealexweb Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 Do you know why?Macs might not have got the viruss themselves, but they was able to pass them across to their windows colleagues and so they had ant-virus software that could stop this happening in a network Its all very well coming out with such things but it'd be helpful to have some facts to back it up. Apple is claiming they don't do viruses but we know thats not true. I saying viruses for Mac do exist you should try and prove they don't because we have seen them in the wild. Mac is not 100% secure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zickar Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 The misconception that any Operating System is immune to Viruses just because its this or that is very wrong and whould be removed as soon as possible from the minds of people because as the news shows that Mac Trojans have been found and thus the possibility of being infected is there even if its slight at this point , Its mainly because Mac's share is not big enough for Virus makers to consider it worth the effort , The same can be said about Linux OS , There isn't any Virus or Trojan yet there but it will def start popping out with time , Specially on PCs .... Safari has been found to be the easiest browser to crack among all four major browsers in the last Hacking event and its vulnerabilities like these that hackers will use in the future ... Like many have said better safe than sorry , Most Anti Viruses provide a Mac version so maybe you should install it , Maybe you shouldn't be worried about having the best Anti Virus in the world and pay a lot of money for it , But you should have at least some sort f protection , even if its basic .. AVG is pretty powerful , Its free and it might be good for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ci7 Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 no one bothered to Create V.D.K. for Mac. :p since PC outnumber mac by 9:1 ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo_spook Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 The misconception that any Operating System is immune to Viruses just because its this or that is very wrong and whould be removed as soon as possible from the minds of people because as the news shows that Mac Trojans have been found and thus the possibility of being infected is there even if its slight at this point , Its mainly because Mac's share is not big enough for Virus makers to consider it worth the effort I'm not saying it might not be true, but its not correct to try and pass personal opinion as fact because really, that is just your guess and there isn't any factual evidence to support it. If you care to correct me then please post that evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redvamp128 Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 (edited) Do you know why?Macs might not have got the viruss themselves, but they was able to pass them across to their windows colleagues and so they had ant-virus software that could stop this happening in a network I think you got the main reason why you should have an anti-virus on a Mac. If you are on a network and or share files from your Mac to your PC and or share files with your friends. I run LInux and I have an anti-virus and scan all email attachments and especially rescan the ones that I forward just to stop the spread. Edited May 31, 2009 by redvamp128 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zickar Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I'm not saying it might not be true, but its not correct to try and pass personal opinion as fact because really, that is just your guess and there isn't any factual evidence to support it.If you care to correct me then please post that evidence. This is not a personal opinion .. Its news , I was never forcing my opinion on anyone , I never even thought that the fact that someone should have an anti Virus on their PC was something that needed to be argued in the first place .. Either way here are the two stories with links I referred to , Sorry for not posting them in the previous post , I thought they were common knowledge and everyone knew about them ... The Trojan referrence is referring to a news story about a trojan that was detected on a number of Apple PCs being transferred from one computer to another via an iLife torrent or something like that , One torrent file was infected and the users thought they were secure so they didn't scan it before running it , Here are some links to stories from Gizmodo (They were the only ones I could find with a quick search) But the post offers more links as well : http://i.gizmodo.com/5137161/torrented-cop...sty-os-x-trojan ..... The same trojan was revamped and sneeked into photshop too : http://gizmodo.com/5139116/os-x-ilife-troj...aged-rereleased .... Not big threats I'm sure but its a living example that Macs just like any other computer and any other OS have vulnerabilities , It doesn't make them any better or any worse at all , Its just normal ... Another link here as well to both stories : http://www.informationweek.com/news/securi...RSSfeed_IWK_ALL And on this note one last link to something as respectable as Cnet referring to an Apple offiicial Statement that is recommending Mac users to install antivirus software Also with more links included if you want to go indepth .... http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10110852-...l?tag=mncol;txt As for the Safari Vulnerability This just one link : http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/23/safari-...of-your-iphone/ ... There was a story I can't find links to now , On a hackers conference , Hackers tried to break down different web browsers . Safari was the first to break , IE was next , Then Firefox and Chrome was the hardest to break ... I'll get back to you with more from this story as soon as I find the links ... A concluding statement , I don't use Macs but I do respect the fact that its more of a lifestyle for many users rather than just another Operating system , And I do respect the changes Apple has brought to the Aesthetics of hardware and operating systems alike and the inspiration for Docks , Desktop effects . Touch screens and many many more ... However saying that its vulnerable doesn't make it bad , It means its time to start taking care of this to keep a good product good ... I personally use Linux as my main OS so I'm not defending Windows here or even Linux , I'm just saying that any machine should have an AV and any user should have good commonsense browsing the net and they will be safe forever , Having one and not the other might keep you uninfected but eventually you will !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdood Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Wasn't there a trojan in a leaked version of iLife or iWork, which affected Mac OS X? To those who said there are no viruses for Macs, I think there are, there just aren't as many as there are for Windows. A trojan is a piece of regular software that the user has to run voluntarily. The Mac does have a few of these, but they tend to come with pirated software or because someone downloaded and ran "freeporn.exe" or "freewarez.app" from some shady website. When people think of a virus they normally think of code that infects a system without any interaction from the user by exploiting a bug/security hole (sometimes the two are combined so that a virus will infect person #1 by exploiting a bug, and then infect his files so that when he sends them to someone else and they run them voluntarily they'll get infected as well.) Windows has had a lot of these over the years, while the Mac has not. This is a simple fact, and something that does make a Mac a safer platform for the novice. Viruses tend to be written for profit, it's an industry worth millions, so one could argue that the Mac's low market share makes it an unappealing target (when you consider the effort needed to learn the innards of OS X to develop viruses for it). It could also be that OS X just doesn't have as much exploitable code (even though there's no reason to believe that, and OS X even lacks some basic countermeasures other modern OSes have). In any case, the result is a platform with far fewer threats than Windows. I thought people could plant worms, viruses etc so they download and install automatically when you visit a legitimate website? If that can happen on Windows, it can happen on a Mac, right? Theoretically it can, but in order for these viruses to make it into your computer automatically there has to be a bug in the web browser that they can exploit to run code on your machine. In other words there has to be a security hole they can exploit. The hole could also be in a plugin like Flash, or some other network service. These are rare on all platforms these days. You might look at the list of security updates for OS X and think that it's filled with bugs that could compromise your system, but it's not that simple. If the bug requires that you're already running code on the machine in order to exploit it, then it is not a security hole since you're already running your code and can just do whatever you want directly (an exception is, of course, if the bug allows you to run code as another user or an administrator.) A real security hole is something that will let you run code by having the user open a malformed document (such as a website or PDF file) or send a specially crafted message to a network service. In these cases you can end up running your code without the user ever having to click your executable. Apple is claiming they don't do viruses but we know thats not true. I saying viruses for Mac do exist you should try and prove they don't because we have seen them in the wild. Mac is not 100% secure. You can't demand that people prove a negative. If you're claiming that there are lots of Mac viruses out in the wild, then the onus is on you. We don't have to disprove your claims when they come with no documentation to back them up. The reality is that with the exception of a few trojans that you can get by being stupid (although, in all fairness, that's how most Windows users get infected), there are none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StandingInAlley Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Actually Apple recommends running an antivirus in their KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealexweb Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Actually Apple recommends running an antivirus in their KB Intresting, behind closed doors hidden away they recommend having one but in theirs adverts they claim Macs don't do viruses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdood Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Intresting, behind closed doors hidden away they recommend having one but in theirs adverts they claim Macs don't do viruses. It used to (still does?) say that on their website as well, but it's a liability to make an absolute claim like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subject Delta Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Despite what apple's ads and a lot of their fans will tell you, OSX is not like some impenetrable wall that cannot be broken down. There are security flaws in it, probably more so than Windows, and it is always better to be safe than sorry. The only OS I would feel truly safe to use without an antivirus would be Linux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdood Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Linux has seen far more worms and trojans and dangerous security holes over the years than OS X has (it's a server platform, and so an appealing target), so even if I might not use antivirus software, I'd make damn sure I stayed completely up to date. Antivirus software is mostly a necessity for people who don't have the ability to judge threats. In other words your average computer user. They're vulnerable on all platforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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