+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted May 15, 2009 Subscriber² Share Posted May 15, 2009 GL: A lot of indie game studios complain about how piracy is ruining their games, and it's often amazing the ratio of legit copies sold versus pirated downloads. How are you going on this front? As you seem to have an unrestricted online component, surely the pirates must be hitting your servers hard. Felix: Yes, piracy - which we rather call bootlegging, because it is a more appropriate term - is an issue on the PC side and it also is one with And Yet It Moves. We currently have a bootlegging rate from approximately 95.5% which basically means for every game we sell there are 22 cracked version being played. Bootlegging is a reality on the PC and we definitely know that not every game cracked means a lost sale, there's no easy 1:1 conversion here. We are also of the strong believe that any game will be cracked, no matter how we try to protect it, so our philosophy is that adding DRM or anything similar only annoys the people who actually pay for it. We don't want to do this so we sell our game DRM free on our site to make the process of buying And Yet It Moves as easy as downloading a bootleg. The interesting bit is also that the current crack that circulates on bittorrent trackers etc. is actually a cracked greenhouse version and not the DRM free game we sell via our site. Still our bootlegging rate is really very bad and worse than we expected. We think that this is mainly because of the price point. Full review: http://gamerlimit.com/2009/05/and-yet-it-m...oper-interview/ Review of game: http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/975/975010p1.html These indie developers really would have a better crack at success (no pun intended) going on PSN and XBLA also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyJordan Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 The piracy rate is probably that high on And Yet It Moves because it isn't that good of a game? World of Goo is coming from a similar background to AYIM, but its piracy rate is much lower because there's no DRM at all wherever you buy it, it's cheap, and it's a good game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusuf M. Veteran Posted May 15, 2009 Veteran Share Posted May 15, 2009 Piracy, or bootlegging, on the PC platform is outrageously high because a lot of people know about it and more people are learning. And by that, I mean the methods of acquiring pirated games. It doesn't matter all that much if the game is good or not. People will still pirate it. The only games that have success are those with solid multiplayer components; however, that too is circumvented with the use of cracked servers and VPNs. Unfortunately, it's on the rise and will continue to rise until something effective is done to stop it. It's a real shame because the PC platform would look a great deal better without piracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiB3R Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 But there's still a much higher chance that people will pay if the game is good. No chance at all if it's ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylcard Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 It's like game developers rely on pirated copies to estimate how much they have lost, and why their project didn't do well on the market. Yeah, blame it on "pirates", instead of making quality games. Piracy balances things out, at least that's how I take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted May 15, 2009 Author Subscriber² Share Posted May 15, 2009 It's like game developers rely on pirated copies to estimate how much they have lost, and why their project didn't do well on the market.Yeah, blame it on "pirates", instead of making quality games. Piracy balances things out, at least that's how I take it. So if a game scores less it means it's fair to pirate it? How about you don't play it if it doesn't interest you. I love making these kinds of topics to see all the hilarious reasons people bring up to defend piracy :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 GL: If we may ask, how are sales going, are they up to level you were expecting?Felix: Sadly, they are not at a level we expected. We got great reviews and general good feedback from people who bought our game but sales are quite mediocre. I mean, they?re alright, there?s some money coming in, but the problem is that the way it is now, we would need additional fundings for future projects. We also have no idea how sales will continue: will they drop some more, will we be able to get better sales through marketing activities/sales/price drops etc. One of the reason for the bad sales might be that we didn?t choose the right levels for the demo. Our conversion rate from demo to full version is bad so now we think that maybe it is focused too much on platforming and shows too little of the interesting puzzles. We will definitely be able to support our work until the WiiWare version is finished and hopefully that version is financially more successful, otherwise we will have to find other ways to generate money. So, it's pandnd a bad demo. Piracy - the PC platform excuse for bad sales. I know piracy hurts the platform, but 95% not believing that. The game looks like crap, my computer would probably reject it on looks alone. Yes, I know you can't judge a game by how good it looks, but PC gamers spend tons of money for their graphics cards alone and want games to look good. It looks like an animated scrap book, but I'm going to try the demo anyway just to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 For some games its a real hassle running a legit version due to copy protection, activations etc. on the other hand its often easier to run the legit version. The ones that are easier to run legit funnily enough are the ones with little DRM. I'd like to see some kind of chart of sales vs drm level. I think Steam is currently the best method of doing things, all you need is an account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicken-royal Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Probably worth noting that one pirate download != one lost sale. Some people will download it just because it's there to download without ever having the intention on buying it. I also imagine that many people download no-CD cracks for games they bought. However, downloading a game for free just doesn't measure up to owning the real thing. I love having the box art (and the manuals, for games that still have them) and the fact that I've supported the developer. :) I'm really picky when it comes to games though, I'll usually read loads of reviews (websites and forums) before getting a game from a series I haven't played before. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Growled Member Posted May 15, 2009 Member Share Posted May 15, 2009 I know piracy hurts the platform, but 95% not believing that. Me neither. That's just BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sethos Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Gotta love made-up numbers, definitely makes for a sensational title Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusuf M. Veteran Posted May 15, 2009 Veteran Share Posted May 15, 2009 But there's still a much higher chance that people will pay if the game is good. No chance at all if it's ****. So, what you're saying is that a game will be pirated if it's "bad"? The average pirate could care less if it's good or not. Some people pirate games to "try it out". Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that the quality of the game itself has a small impact on whether it's pirated or not. A bigger factor is the game's multiplayer component. To enjoy that you'll have to purchase the game. It's like game developers rely on pirated copies to estimate how much they have lost, and why their project didn't do well on the market.Yeah, blame it on "pirates", instead of making quality games. Piracy balances things out, at least that's how I take it. They have every right to blame it on pirates. They're enjoying games that that should have paid for. I'm not implying that every pirated game is a lost sale. Actually, it's a potential sale but that's for another discussion. And it's not like developers make poor games on purpose. I'm sure they had (or have) the best intentions. Piracy by no means balances anything out. It shouldn't even exist to begin with. So if a game scores less it means it's fair to pirate it? How about you don't play it if it doesn't interest you.I love making these kinds of topics to see all the hilarious reasons people bring up to defend piracy :laugh: It's sad, really. Me neither. That's just BS. Gotta love made-up numbers, definitely makes for a sensational title It varies from game to game. There's no set number. How can there be? It's not like they track every single person that downloads pirated [PC] games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sethos Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 It varies from game to game. There's no set number. How can there be? It's not like they track every single person that downloads pirated [PC] games. It varies but you can never know the exact number, that's why these made-up numbers are laughable. Just give it a general title instead of an exact percentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabron Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 You want sell the games? lowest the price very cheap and you will see a decline in piracy. Who in hell is going to be paying $60 for a single game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted May 15, 2009 Author Subscriber² Share Posted May 15, 2009 You want to sell the games? lowest the price very cheap and you will see a decline in piracy. Who in hell is going to pay $60 for a game? No one in this topic seeing as the game costs $15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabron Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 No one in this topic seeing as the game costs $15. I am talking in general, they make also games that cost a lot of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOC Veteran Posted May 15, 2009 Veteran Share Posted May 15, 2009 No one in this topic seeing as the game costs $15. And not to mention PC games cost $40-50 normally anyway. $60 is the realm of consoles almost exclusively. Anyways, AYIM is a terrific game. But I can see it being "bootlegged" to hell and back especially these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-KJ Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Guys, they're wrong. It's actually 96.3% now according to my calculatio- oh, wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabron Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 What about subscription based? they can give away the game for free and when the user install, it need to be subscribed in order to play the game for about $2 dollars a month. it could probably drop piracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted May 15, 2009 Author Subscriber² Share Posted May 15, 2009 Does this game have any sort of online component? Leader boards? Stat collecting? Cause if it does if a company knows they've sold 1,000 copies, but 50,000 people have been uploading stats or playing online it's quite easy to get an estimate of how bad the piracy is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiB3R Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 So, what you're saying is that a game will be pirated if it's "bad"? The average pirate could care less if it's good or not. Some people pirate games to "try it out". Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that the quality of the game itself has a small impact on whether it's pirated or not. A bigger factor is the game's multiplayer component. To enjoy that you'll have to purchase the game. "So, what you're saying is that a game will be pirated if it's "bad"?" Huh!? Of course it will, but what I said was... "there's a much higher chance that people will pay if the game is good." "The average pirate could care less if it's good or not." ffs, it's couldn't care less. Anyway, pirates have standards too you know! "Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that the quality of the game itself has a small impact on whether it's pirated or not." Crazy, but true. It will be pirated even if it's crap, but nowhere near as much. "A bigger factor is the game's multiplayer component. To enjoy that you'll have to purchase the game." Not true. Games will be pirated to **** regardless. All I meant was that if it's good, then you'll see a much higher number of paying customers running around on your server, and many of those are people that have already downloaded the game for free. Nobody is gonna buy your game if it's ****, except for the 4.5% that got sucked into parting with their cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusuf M. Veteran Posted May 16, 2009 Veteran Share Posted May 16, 2009 "So, what you're saying is that a game will be pirated if it's "bad"?"Huh!? Of course it will, but what I said was... "there's a much higher chance that people will pay if the game is good." I think it's more complex than a game's apparent quality. There are other factors involved in a yet-to-be pirate's decision to pirate X game. In any case, the biggest factors are popularity and availability. If a game is popular and readily available on warez sites, then chances are a lot of pirates will download it. And that's regardless if the game is "bad" or "good". "The average pirate could care less if it's good or not."ffs, it's couldn't care less. Anyway, pirates have standards too you know! Excuse me, but it isn't "couldn't care less". That implies an impossibility to care less. "Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that the quality of the game itself has a small impact on whether it's pirated or not."Crazy, but true. It will be pirated even if it's crap, but nowhere near as much. I don't understand. What do you mean by "nowhere near as much."? "A bigger factor is the game's multiplayer component. To enjoy that you'll have to purchase the game."Not true. Agreed. I should have reiterated what I said in my earlier post here. Games will be pirated to **** regardless. All I meant was that if it's good, then you'll see a much higher number of paying customers running around on your server, and many of those are people that have already downloaded the game for free.Nobody is gonna buy your game if it's ****, except for the 4.5% that got sucked into parting with their cash. Yes, that much is true. It's an unfortunate consequence of ... well, a lot of things. It's always the popular games that have the highest pirating rates. And at the same time, it's always the games with high ratings that sell well. Though it isn't surprising that, most of the time, the games with high ratings are also the games with a lot of popularity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Growled Member Posted May 16, 2009 Member Share Posted May 16, 2009 People pirate all games, good ones and bad ones. It has been a problem since the early days of computing. I'm of the opinion that it really doesn't affect sales that much because most people just aren't going to buy the games anyway. If they can't pirate them, they'll move on to something else. Price might be one factor in piracy but ultimately people do it because they can. Not many people can walk into a bank and help themselves to any amount of money they want, but they can get on the Internet and help themselves to any "free" programs they want. It's basically greed. Just my 2 cents here, but the only way the software developers will ever stop piracy is to come up with a new purchasing model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylcard Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Without "piracy" : 1. Sales stay the same, you can't tie "pirated" copies to "sales", or lack of. 2. Quality of the product stays the same. 3. Less people play the game. 4. Less exposure, less feedback. Piracy or not, most of us won't buy a game for the heck of it, not that I'm in a dire financial situation, but regardless - I'm not going to waste my money such way. Quality games do well, as in - they sell well, even when they're pirated. Also, this "greed" is a two way street, whoever is behind selling games and all that is just as greedy as the "pirates", they want more money in the pockets, even though their product isn't worth it most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted May 16, 2009 Author Subscriber² Share Posted May 16, 2009 Piracy or not, most of us won't buy a game for the heck of it, not that I'm in a dire financial situation, but regardless - I'm not going to waste my money such way.Quality games do well, as in - they sell well, even when they're pirated. Read reviews/play demos/ask people on Neowin how the game is. Also, this "greed" is a two way street, whoever is behind selling games and all that is just as greedy as the "pirates", they want more money in the pockets, even though their product isn't worth it most of the time. lol, yeah, screw those developers for wanting money out of the games they create! Greedy devs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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