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Air France Jet Carrying 228 Missing Over Atlantic

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starburst1980    0
The cold water would kill the passengers anyways even if the pilot managed not to crash.

...there are rafts and slides that float....They could survive a few hours.

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vincent    155
Uh, this happened near the equator... during WWII, sailors of sunken ships survived for a couple of days floating in equatorial Pacific waters with only life jackets.

Sharks, waves, etc.

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+Mirumir    5,857
Uh, this happened near the equator... during WWII, sailors of sunken ships survived for a couple of days floating in equatorial Pacific waters with only life jackets.
...there are rafts and slides that float....They could survive a few hours.

Imagine a plane weighting a hundred tons sinking...it will pull everything down with it...especially if its turbines are working...

I'm not a pessimist...I would much rather see everyone survive...But I'm just a realist...all passengers are dead.

As for the water temperature...near equator or not, it depends on how deep the water is, how close it is to the coast...in this case...it happened in the open Atlantic ocean...

Edited by zhiVago

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webeagle12    948
Imagine a plane weighting a hundred tons sinking...it will pull everything down with it...especially if its turbines are working...

I'm not a pessimist...I would much rather see everyone survive...But I'm just a realist...all passengers are dead.

As for the water temperature...near equator or not, it depends on how deep the water is, how close it is to the coast...in this case...it happened in the open Atlantic ocean...

the aircraft would broken up in a pieces in impact

hdood: show some respect, you acting like 10 year old :no:

Also the plane that went down into Hudson was a lot smaller size (123 feet) , it was easier to navigate into the river; we here talking about wide body jet (193 feet).

This all seems a little strange, nothing from pilot or copilot, but there were automated messages were send from plane computer within 4 min span. Very puzzling to me.

p.s: search is suspend for a night. Nothing found yet except TAM plane reported something on fire in the ocean:

From Reuters:

"Brazil's air force said it was investigating a report that a jetliner flown by Brazilian carrier TAM had spotted debris in the ocean in Senegal's air space on a flight from Europe to Brazil. Brazil's Vice-President Jose Alencar also mentioned the report, saying the TAM pilot may have seen "something on fire" in the ocean. TAM was not immediately available for comment."

Edited by webeagle12

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Subject Delta    108

Lets hope they confirm or bust this one quickly, the families at least deserve a definite answer. Even so, this has all the makings of a pretty complex accident that may take some time for them to actually piece together a cause

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Growled    3,881
Lets hope they confirm or bust this one quickly, the families at least deserve a definite answer. Even so, this has all the makings of a pretty complex accident that may take some time for them to actually piece together a cause

True, and the longer it takes to find the plane the less chances there are of finding any survivors.

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vladmphoto    13

Although the reality of this disaster is settling in more and more, I still hope the plane somehow made it to land somewhere and made a forced landing. There are a few promising scenarios. One is that the plane may have been flying too low for it to show on radar due to a serious problem on board such as a decompression which the plane automatically reported. If that is the case, it could have flown for quite some time from the point where it lost contact with ATC. A forced landing in the ocean is not a promising scenario even though people point attention to the Hudson river incident. This is the Atlantic, not a calm river.

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kazuyette    13

TF1 ( Number1 channel in France ) , planned to air the first episode of Fringe (the one that starts in the plane ... You knpow what I mean ;) ) this wednesday night. After what happened, they replaced it with an episode of criminal minds ...

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FloatingFatMan    20,950

Those poor people. It's highly unlikely they're going to find any alive, so I can only hope that they at least died quickly.

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vladmphoto    13
That isn't the point and you know it

Your idea of humour is making fun out of the death of 228 totally innocent people? Remind me never to interact with you socially.

Source: BBC News

I just read of this development and it is potentially devastating! If these are pieces from the jet, then the families that are clinging to hope will be crushed. I can only imagine the horror they are going through and my heart goes out to each and every one of them. I really wanted this to end in a very happy reunion with the surviving passengers but with the current info we have, things are looking very grim right now.

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webeagle12    948
Oh yeah, the picture shows a Boeing. Sorry.

Thousands of people die every day and planes crash all the time. Get over it and grow a sense of humor.

do it somewhere else then. If somebody you would know been on this flight, YOU would act differently. This is NOT a time, please.

LIke Frank Fontaine said they did find some debris in the ocean and we just waiting for confirmation. First Brazzilian ship will arrive there tomorrow

(Wednesday). I'm not going to be surprised confirmations will not come until tomorrow or Thursday. Next step will be recovering Black boxes which will

be a real challenge. The depth of the ocean there is about 5000-7000 feet.

RIP!!!

Edited by webeagle12

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sujmano    0

poor people, to be honest doubt they would still believe hopefully they find it in the next few days before the plain stops sending out signals.

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techbeck    7,387
Thousands of people die every day and planes crash all the time. Get over it and grow a sense of humor.

Yea, because every time I hear about someone dieing I laugh my ass off... :wacko:

If everyone is dead, hopefully they died quickly upon or before impact. Drowning is a terrible way to go.

Wreckage seen in search area for missing plane

(CNN) -- Wreckage has been found in the Atlantic Ocean that could have come from a missing Air France jet that disappeared Monday with 228 passengers and crew on board, Brazilian aviation officials said Tuesday.

Americans Anne and Michael Harris, who lived in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, were aboard the flight.

Americans Anne and Michael Harris, who lived in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, were aboard the flight.

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Floating objects and seats were found 720 kilometers (447 miles) from the island of Fernando de Noronha, said Brazilian Air Force spokesman Jorge Amaral.

Fernando de Noronha is an archipelago of 21 islands around 354 kilometers (220 miles) off the northeast coast of Brazil.

It lies near the flight path the airline said the jet would have followed from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, to Paris, France.

The search will continue, but there is not enough material yet to officially say this is the wreckage from Flight 447, Maral said.

Brazilian, French and Senegalese rescue teams were combing vast sections of the Atlantic on Tuesday.

A report of "shiny spots" in the sea along the route of Flight 447 by a crew from the Brazilian airline TAM prompted a search in the territorial waters off Senegal, but without result.

The Airbus A330, carrying 228 people, encountered heavy turbulence early Monday, some three hours after it began the 11-hour flight from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, to Paris, France, according to Air France CEO Pierre-Henri Gourgeon.

At that point, the plane's automatic system initiated a four-minute series of messages to the company's maintenance computers, indicating that "several pieces of aircraft equipment were at fault or had broken down," he told reporters.

During that time, there was no contact with the crew, Gourgeon said.

"It was probable that it was a little bit after those messages that the impact of the plane took place in the Atlantic," he added.

The Airbus A330 was off radar and probably closer to Brazil than to Africa at the time, he said.

Two squadrons from Brazil's air force launched a search near the archipelago of Fernando de Noronha in the Atlantic Ocean, about 365 kilometers (225 miles) from Brazil's coast, an air force spokesman told CNN. French President Nicolas Sarkozy said France sent ships and planes to an area about 400 kilometers (250 miles) from Brazil. See map of suspected crash zone ?

"Our Spanish friends are helping us, Brazilians are helping us a lot as well," he said.

The average depth of the Atlantic is close to 12,000 feet -- more than 2 miles.

The plane carried 216 passengers -- 126 men, 82 women, seven children and a baby -- and 12 crew members, Air France said. Of the crew, 11 were French and one was Brazilian. Video Watch latest report on missing aircraft ?

An official list of victims' names was not available late Monday, but the only two Americans on board -- Michael Harris, 60, and his wife, Anne, 54 -- were identified by the couple's family and his employer.

"Anne and Mike were indeed a beautiful couple inside and out, and I miss them terribly already," said Anne Harris' sister, Mary Miley.

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* TIME.com: What might have made plane disappear?

Michael Harris was a geologist in Rio de Janeiro for Devon Energy, the largest U.S.-based independent natural gas and oil producer, according to a company spokesman.

The couple had lived in the city since July 2008 and was traveling to Paris for a training seminar for Michael and for a vacation, Miley told CNN.

Another passenger was Prince Pedro Luis de Orleans e Braganca, a member of Brazil's non-reigning royal family, his family confirmed Monday. Pedro Luis was 26.

In addition, a spokeswoman for the French tire company Michelin told CNN that two company executives were on board the aircraft. She identified them as the president of Michelin Latin America, Luiz Roberto Anastacio, and the director of informatics, Antonio Gueiros. She added that Michelin was very saddened by their presumed deaths.

The airline identified the nationalities of the other victims as: Argentine (1); Austrian (1); Belgian (1); Brazilian (58); British (5); Canadian (1); Chinese (9); Croatian (1); Danish (1); Dutch (1); Estonian (1); Filipino (1); French (61); Gambian (1); German (26); Hungarian (4); Icelandic (1); Irish (3); Italian (9); Lebanese (5); Moroccan (2); Norwegian (3); Polish (2); Romanian (1); Russian (1); Slovakian (3); Spanish (2); Swedish (1); Swiss (6); Turkish (1).

The jet was 4 years old and had last undergone routine maintenance on April 16. Video Watch report on what could have caused aircraft to go down ?

Its crew included three pilots, including a 58-year-old captain who had logged 11,000 hours in flight, and nine cabin crew members, Air France said in a statement. Some 1,700 of the captain's hours were on two Airbus models. Of the two co-pilots -- ages 37 and 32 -- one had 3,000 hours of flying experience and the other 6,600 hours. The aircraft had flown 18,870 hours, the statement said.

Of the passengers, 149 had planned to connect to flights going elsewhere in Europe or as far away as China, Gourgeon said.

"This is a catastrophe the likes of which Air France has never seen before," Sarkozy told reporters at Charles de Gaulle International Airport, where he had met with relatives of those missing aboard the flight.

"I said the truth to them: The prospects of finding survivors are very low," he said. Video Watch comments from Sarkozy ?

France asked the U.S. military to assist in the search with U.S. detection satellites, French Transport Minister Jean-Louis Borloo told CNN affiliate France 2. Pentagon officials did not immediately confirm the request.

Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva told reporters in San Salvador, El Salvador, that he had spoken with Sarkozy, but neither leader knew what to say.

"All we could do was thank each other," Lula said. "He thanked me for the speed with which the Brazilian air force took charge."

He added, "In times like these, there is little to do but to deeply lament, to wish the families a lot of strength, because there are no words."

The jet, which was flying at 35,000 feet and at 521 mph, also sent a warning that it had lost pressure, the Brazilian air force said.

The jet took off from Rio de Janeiro's Galeao International Airport at 11:30 p.m. Sunday. Its last known contact occurred at 02:33 a.m. Monday, the Brazilian air force spokesman said. It was not clear what that final contact was.

It was expected to check in with air traffic controllers at 03:20 a.m. but did not do so. Brazilian authorities asked the air force to launch a search mission just over three hours later.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/06/...sing/index.html

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vladmphoto    13

The fact is that Boeing has has numerous incidents with their most popular B737 aircraft while Airbus has had a great safety record.

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webeagle12    948

Airbus statement:

AIR FRANCE FLIGHT AF 447

Media Information on Air France AF 447

1 June 2009

Airbus regrets to confirm that an Airbus A330-200 operated by Air France has been lost about 3.5 hours after departure. The aircraft was operating a scheduled service, Flight AF 447, from Rio de Janeiro (Brazil) to Paris (France).

The missing aircraft, registered under the number F-GZCP, was MSN (Manufacturer Serial Number) 660, delivered to Air France from the production line in April 2005. The aircraft had accumulated approximately 18,800 flight hours in some 2,500 flights. It was powered by CF6-80E1 engines. At this time no further factual information is available.

In line with ICAO Annex 13 international convention, Airbus has offered full technical assistance to the investigation board. The investigation remains the entire responsibility of the relevant board and it would be inappropriate for Airbus to enter into any form of speculation.

The concerns and sympathy of the Airbus employees go to the families, friends and loved ones affected.

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The Angry Bunny    6
... it's no worse than the Lost references...

While I don't agree with the joke, he does make a point here...

Anyway, Terrible accident. My thoughts and prayers go out to the families of those involved. RIP

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Subject Delta    108
I just read of this development and it is potentially devastating! If these are pieces from the jet, then the families that are clinging to hope will be crushed. I can only imagine the horror they are going through and my heart goes out to each and every one of them. I really wanted this to end in a very happy reunion with the surviving passengers but with the current info we have, things are looking very grim right now.

To be honest, that was very unlikely anyway. Nobody will be alive now, too long has passed.

The depth of the ocean there is about 5000-7000 feet.

Same problem was faced in the case of Air India flight 182, it took ages to confirm it.

Get off your high horse. I did my research. 70s-80s? It was McDonall Douglass that had the big problem with wiring and plane crashes. This era seems to be Airbus. Did I say anything about fatal crashes? No. Take your anti-Americanism chip off your shoulder. Nobody is superior.

I am not anti-american I just get sick of Boeing fans constantly slagging off Airbus and blaming them for accidents without having the facts. There is no such thing of this era being Airbus, like I stated most of these crashes have been caused by piloting errors, not plane design problems.

The 737-series has more recorded accidents and incidents simply because... it is the most flown aircraft in the world. It has nothing to do with the safety of the plane.

The frequency of use has nothing to do with it. There was actually a pretty severe design flaw with the dual servo valve in the tail of the plane, it caused 2 crashes (USAir 427 and United 585, resulting in the loss of 167 lives) as well as the engine flaw that was a large part of the cause of the Chegworth crash.

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Damo R.    29,672
Anyway, Terrible accident. My thoughts and prayers go out to the families of those involved. RIP

:(

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anarkhy    33

How they can loose a plane these days, i thought they were tracked by radars and satellite all the time.

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jonhapimp    0
How they can loose a plane these days, i thought they were tracked by radars and satellite all the time.

nothing is perfect Everything Fails someday even with an low failure rate

sadly yesterday was this planes day

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starburst1980    0

On a side note, I believe the black box should include a high powered GPS transmitter to make locating it alot more simple.

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hdood    145

I don't think so. A GPS receiver does not work under water, nor do regular UHF beacons like you find on boats (which can be tracked by satellite). They have a special low frequency (because it penetrates water better) beacon that just send out a very simple pulse at a regular interval until the battery runs out.

They basically just got "deeet" every second so a submarine or ship can pick it up.

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maplecookie    0

thread cleaned

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Subject Delta    108

Debris spotted by planes in waters 650km (400 miles) off Brazil's coast belongs to a missing French airliner, the Brazilian government has confirmed.

Defence Minister Nelson Jobim said he had no doubt the debris was from the Air France jet carrying 228 people.

A Brazilian search plane saw a band of wreckage along a 5km (3m) strip, Mr Jobim told reporters in Rio de Janeiro. There was no report of survivors.

Flight AF 447 was heading from Rio to Paris when it was lost early on Monday.

The discovery of the debris confirmed "that the plane went down" in the area, Mr Jobim said.

He gave few details of the wreckage, saying only that it included metallic and non-metallic pieces.

Earlier, Brazil's air force said it had spotted an airplane seat, an orange buoy and signs of fuel.

Mr Jobim's words will come as grim confirmation of the worst for the families waiting for news both in Paris and Rio, the BBC's Gary Duffy reports from Brazil.

If it is confirmed that all 228 people on Flight AF 447 are dead, it will be the worst loss of life in Air France's history.

Ships on hand

Naval boats are due to arrive in the crash zone on Wednesday, while three merchant vessels are already in the area, the Brazilian defence minister said.

If any bodies are found, they will be transported by ship to the nearest airport, on Brazil's archipelago of Fernando de Noronha, he was quoted as saying by AFP news agency.

The defence minister warned that the recovery of the plane's cockpit voice and data recorders could be difficult because of the depth of the ocean.

"It could be at a depth of 2,000m or 3,000m [6,500ft-9,800ft] in that area of the ocean," he said.

He made the announcement after visiting relatives of those aboard the flight, who were being looked after in a Rio hotel by teams including psychological and medical personnel.

France is also sending a research ship equipped with two mini-submarines to the disaster area.

Distress call mystery

Most of the missing people are Brazilian or French but they include a total of 32 nationalities. Five Britons and three Irish citizens are among them.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy will attend a religious service for the families and friends of the missing passengers and crew at Notre Dame Cathedral, Paris, on Wednesday.

Prime Minister Francois Fillon told the French parliament that the cause of the plane's loss had still to be established.

"Our only certainty is that the plane did not send out any distress call but regular automatic alerts for three minutes indicating the failure of all systems," he said.

Experts remain puzzled that there were no radio reports from the Airbus and they say that such a modern aircraft would have had to suffer multiple traumas to plunge into the sea, the BBC's Adam Mynott reports from Paris.

Source: BBC News

Official confirmation of the worst. May the victims R.I.P

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SirEvan    122
hmm we don't have very impressive satellite navigation if it can't find an airplane they've lost contact with, meh maybe I've watched too much star trek, but seriously how can something drop off the radar that easily.

Satellite and RADAR are two very different things.

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