Boz Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Looks about a year behind natal in terms of development. Credit where credits due, this technology Microsofts going to push out to the world is a lightyear beyond what Sony and Nintendo have out and in development for motion control. Nintendos going to have to come up with a new gimik next gen and sony would do well to try and copy microsoft and get rid of the wand.. Exactly.. I'm almost guaranteeing that heads are rolling over Sony. When they saw Microsoft's presentation they shat bricks and now I have a feeling they'll scratch the pink dildo and make something that will have to be closer to Microsoft Natal if they even know where to start. Talk about them banging their heads now with the whole HOME thing. What were they thinking. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sn00pie Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Microsoft pulled a big one on Sony with Project Natal, even someone who loves their PS3 like me can tell you that. There is nothing great about Sony's revolutionary dildo mechanism that they displayed at E3. If they had done that before the Wii came out, then heads would have been turning, at this point, the heads were turning the other way. Project Natal is a very intriguing concept, but I don't think its going to be a very successful genre if that is what it ends up becoming. We've seen that the Nintendo Wii has sold extremely well on this motion based gaming platform, but how many Wii owners do you know that admit that their consoles are collecting dust? Almost everyone I know including me would agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raikou Tch Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 and we all know Microsoft is the BEST with Softwares! lol Seriously though, I think Microsoft has a pretty good implementation of motion detecting since you can use your whole body without a controller. But with PS3, the precision and depth sensing seems to be better, plus you actually have some buttons when you need them. Both are still far better than the Wii, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nid~vaeda Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 IMO both what Microsoft and Sony are doing look interesting. To be honest they had to do something if they wanted to stand a chance agianst Nintendo in the casual gamers realm. But the concept of true interaction with games can be done on the Wii. As proof I simply submit this video from youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceminess Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 While I must admit that Natel looks very interesting. I'll believe it when they have a working prototype. While I am a Sony person myself, they are destroying themselves by being the most expensive console out there right now. Lets face it, money talks, and I don't care what anyone says, with Nintendo's horrible E3, it won't effect console sales much because they are still the cheapest console out there right now, and thats what people look at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callummr Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 While I must admit that Natel looks very interesting. I'll believe it when they have a working prototype. While I am a Sony person myself, they are destroying themselves by being the most expensive console out there right now.Lets face it, money talks, and I don't care what anyone says, with Nintendo's horrible E3, it won't effect console sales much because they are still the cheapest console out there right now, and thats what people look at. A working prototype similar to, say, the ones they demo'd live at E3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remysaus Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Lets face it, money talks, and I don't care what anyone says, with Nintendo's horrible E3, it won't effect console sales much because they are still the cheapest console out there right now, and thats what people look at. Actually, the 360 is the cheapest console this generation at this point.. As for the topic.. I have no doubt Nintendo and Sony could produce exactly the same or better over time, it's just that MS is first now and managed to get it working after some years of research. Every evolution has to be started by someone and MS just happened to be the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 That wont happen . Look here http://www.gesturetek.com/3ddepth/introduction.php Not as unique as microsoft makes it out to be. Actually though, their system was nowhere near Natal. It's wasn't even close to accurate, it was jerky, didn't do actual skeletal mapping/motion capture, and it wasn't even close to being able to properly distinguish the "player" from the environment, much less multiple ones. Natal was able to cut an precise and accurate line around the player, so you can can actually be in the game. Their system was based on actually cutting out the user from the enviroment and then anazlyign that to predict their movements, despite that their "cutout" was for the most part larger than the user, and it didn't "see" some stuff like the head at all (no movement). It's a similar system, but they only seem to be using a single camera wich is why they can't do it as well, and also a problem for accurate distance control. But mostly their software isn't up to the task. But no matter how good yoru software is, to get the accuracy of Natal you would need stereo cameras, and you can bet MS has patented their system to hell and back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ichi Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 you can bet MS has patented their system to hell and back. Patents on computer vision and epipolar geometry? Well, considering the track record of the patent system it wouldn't be that strange :p I think this is a cool tech and could be fun for a certain set of games, but I don't see how it could expect to replace the controller. Take racing games: would you seriously be able to stand like 10 minutes with your arms extended in front of you pretending you are holding a steering wheel? I know my arms would hurt, and that's kinda opposed to having fun (at least for me, YMMV :laugh: ) Also I certainly don't feel like jumping for half an hour when playing a Tony Hawk game... I'd rather take an actual ride on my board :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ji@nBing Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 It's not meant to replace the controller. It's meant to offer the ability to play new kinds of games, and at the most, compliment it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d4v1d05 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 lolSeriously though, I think Microsoft has a pretty good implementation of motion detecting since you can use your whole body without a controller. But with PS3, the precision and depth sensing seems to be better, plus you actually have some buttons when you need them. Both are still far better than the Wii, anyway. Yes, tactile interface nearly always beats anything else. Tactile + motion = win. But I'm looking forward to seeing Natal on a regular Xbox 360, with less RAM... Might be interesting to see, since the dev boxes have 1GB of RAM and a regular Xbox 360 has half that. Then again, it might not need that much memory, but I have a feeling it might. Look forward to the games that will be coming out for both platforms, and to leaving the Wii in the box it currently is in since the only time it's used is at parties :) EDIT: Btw, is it just me who thinks of Minority Report when I think of Project Natal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 While I must admit that Natel looks very interesting. I'll believe it when they have a working prototype. While I am a Sony person myself, they are destroying themselves by being the most expensive console out there right now.Lets face it, money talks, and I don't care what anyone says, with Nintendo's horrible E3, it won't effect console sales much because they are still the cheapest console out there right now, and thats what people look at. lol... guess you dont keep up to date with gaming news. 1) Natal is a working prototype, they showed it off live at E3 on stage and afterwards for selected perople. 2) Wii is not the cheapest console... They have yet to offer us a price cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Gil Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 But I'm looking forward to seeing Natal on a regular Xbox 360, with less RAM... Might be interesting to see, since the dev boxes have 1GB of RAM and a regular Xbox 360 has half that. Then again, it might not need that much memory, but I have a feeling it might. The processing is made on the peripheral, the XBox only receives the processed info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 The processing is made on the peripheral, the XBox only receives the processed info. Do you know this for a fact? I'm not saying you are wrong, but surely it makes more sense to process the information on the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_c_b Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Best summed up on Penny Arcade... "In general, the freaky-deaky augmented video mechanisms presented by Microsoft and Sony are inert for us - that is to say, we have no reaction to them whatsoever. Absent anything beyond minigames and puppet shows, I don't know how to contextualize this technology. I can't be certain that it has ramifications of any kind for the games I like to play, the ones my friends like to play, or for the games that built this industry. " This is not some miracle or revolution, it's a novelty that will fill a niche. Additionally MS own goals for the tech aren't nearly as lofty as some of the people in this thread, from Gizmodo interview the other day.... Talking to Marc Whitten, Microsoft's Xbox Live General Manager... "You can have an amazing Live experience without Natal and you can have an amazing Natal experience without Live. But the magic, the endgame, the place that we're going in this social world in the living room is [Natal and Live] tied together. We spend a ton of time on how we're going to reimagine the future with this idea of controlerless gaming and Live together." This statment made me fee a lot better that MS was leaning this more toward Live Arcade stuff. So it sounds like a lot of Live Aracde stuff and the occaissional niche title at best. Games have finally gotten good at conveying a narrative and creating cinematic moments, something that will be lost on you if you are jumping around or flailing about. In general I'm not pleased with this gimmickery across the board, but if you keep it contained to this kind of stuff then knock yourselves out. We can have both, but until someoe shows me a real "revolutionary" change it's just another add-on that I will probably skip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magik Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 If I remember correctly not much of it was developed by Microsoft. I think they bought out 3DV Systems this year who had the hardware and proof of concept software down. I guess it's up to Microsoft to refine it. It's a nice idea but lets give credit where it's due. The credit is due to Microsoft, actually. Of course the Hardware is imperative and a big part of it, but the innovation is largely due to the software solution. Read the interview: Q: So you didn't just get it from an Israeli camera company?A: Exactly. We actually built a software platform that was what we wanted to have as content creators. And then [asked], "OK, are there hardware solutions out there that plug in?" But the amount of software and the quality of software are really the innovation in Natal. That wont happen . Look here http://www.gesturetek.com/3ddepth/introduction.php Not as unique as microsoft makes it out to be. Skeletal tracking and multi-user support coupled with facial and voice recognition in a unified platform seems pretty unique to me, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coresx Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Yes, tactile interface nearly always beats anything else. Tactile + motion = win. But I'm looking forward to seeing Natal on a regular Xbox 360, with less RAM... Might be interesting to see, since the dev boxes have 1GB of RAM and a regular Xbox 360 has half that. Then again, it might not need that much memory, but I have a feeling it might. Look forward to the games that will be coming out for both platforms, and to leaving the Wii in the box it currently is in since the only time it's used is at parties :)EDIT: Btw, is it just me who thinks of Minority Report when I think of Project Natal? I remember reading a hands on the other day or so and Natal was connected to a bog standard retail Xbox 360. No dev kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyLarry Veteran Posted June 4, 2009 Veteran Share Posted June 4, 2009 Best summed up on Penny Arcade..."In general, the freaky-deaky augmented video mechanisms presented by Microsoft and Sony are inert for us - that is to say, we have no reaction to them whatsoever. Absent anything beyond minigames and puppet shows, I don't know how to contextualize this technology. I can't be certain that it has ramifications of any kind for the games I like to play, the ones my friends like to play, or for the games that built this industry. " In general I'm not pleased with this gimmickery across the board, but if you keep it contained to this kind of stuff then knock yourselves out. We can have both, but until someoe shows me a real "revolutionary" change it's just another add-on that I will probably skip. My sentiments exactly. EDIT: Btw, is it just me who thinks of Minority Report when I think of Project Natal? Nope. First thing I thought of as well actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Candyman Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Did JediXAngel used to be an adult and then passed their account to their son or something, because they used to make some good, well thought out, well spoken posts. They don't anymore. Just sounds like some microsoft fanboi now (yes, spelt that way to accent the fact). As far as project Natal, sounds pretty cool. We'll have to see how it develops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Did JediXAngel used to be an adult and then passed their account to their son or something, because they used to make some good, well thought out, well spoken posts. They don't anymore. Just sounds like some microsoft fanboi now (yes, spelt that way to accent the fact).As far as project Natal, sounds pretty cool. We'll have to see how it develops. ... when ? :p He's allways been the guy overly obsessed with "pretty" girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Gil Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Do you know this for a fact?I'm not saying you are wrong, but surely it makes more sense to process the information on the system. Gizmodo The raw information gets processed inside the camera accessory, which then hands over higher level info to the xbox, like "arm movement to the left", "leg twisted", etc.. It makes sense to me, otherwise the XBox would have to process a lot of data unnecessarily... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 GizmodoThe raw information gets processed inside the camera accessory, which then hands over higher level info to the xbox, like "arm movement to the left", "leg twisted", etc.. It makes sense to me, otherwise the XBox would have to process a lot of data unnecessarily... I wouldn't say it makes sense directly, having it processed on the 360 would probably be preferable, BUT this does require some serius power, or relatively so. so this explains how they can use it with more powerful games like Burnout and such. since they don't have to sacrifice a core for Natal, instead they can use a dedicated tailor made onboard RISC processor of some kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Gil Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I wouldn't say it makes sense directly, having it processed on the 360 would probably be preferable, BUT this does require some serius power, or relatively so. so this explains how they can use it with more powerful games like Burnout and such. since they don't have to sacrifice a core for Natal, instead they can use a dedicated tailor made onboard RISC processor of some kind. Exactly, image processing is better done with a dedicated DSP. The only downside is the software inside the accessory. It better be upgradeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Lyons10 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 The technology is definitely interesting, and the business model Microsoft is employing for the XBox 360 is interesting still... Releasing this at the end of a generation (With the low adoption rate of peripherals like this historically)... Probably to get it out there, refine it, and include it in the next console? If it's already in production it will drive down component costs as well, which would be another plus for them. As to other technologies that do this, I saw the gesturetech video, and the limited stuff on Natal (Which I hope gets renamed), and I've seen a couple of similar ventures. Just because someone else *did* it, doesn't mean they did it well... One of these technologies could be leaps and bounds better than the rest. I'm not saying that this is Microsoft's offering, as I haven't tried it clearly, but they have done a lot of very impressive stuff in this vein the last several years. I'm willing to give them the benefit with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Gil Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 The technology is definitely interesting, and the business model Microsoft is employing for the XBox 360 is interesting still... Releasing this at the end of a generation (With the low adoption rate of peripherals like this historically)... Probably to get it out there, refine it, and include it in the next console? There are still ~3 years remaining until a new generation comes. :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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