MS: No Natal release until there is sufficient software to support it


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Microsoft has to launch this as soon as possible. If they dont they should really wait until their next console. They have to fight nitnendo on this who already is selling systems at a record pase. Remember the market they are aiming for will not just go out and buy another system.
I don't see this as combating Nintendo. I mean, at a basic level it is, but not in a rush-it out the door half-baked way. They're coming up on (this year) the fourth anniversary of hardware that is already a generation ahead of what Nintendo is selling now, and they're already selling it cheaper. This is about extending the life of that platform with a relaunch, and in that process, introducing software that offers deeper experiences than what Nintendo has been producing.

For the most part Nintendo has to date been offering games where you randomly shake a stick and something unpredictable happens. The games that have had depth are almost all iterations of existing franchises or concepts with bolted on controls. Motion plus might refine that somewhat.

Third parties are probably going to do the same thing on 360 with Natal, but I think that Lionhead's presentation shows that Microsoft is coming from a different place. Part of that second stage of the 360's life is going to reliant on expanding into Nintendo's market, but when you realize that in 2011, the Wii will be five years old, and might well be looking really long in the teeth versus second generation Natal software...with a $150 price point on hardware (I think we can safely assume that 360 is headed there by Black Friday 2011), that's potentially game changing. This (Natal) is the core of Microsoft's 3rd five year plan on console gaming, and the second was significantly more ambitious and successful than the first, it will be really interesting. The question is does Nintendo feel like competing on hardware? Does a WiiHD reenergize that market for them when there is a cheaper, better looking platform with some extremely ambitious alt-gaming experiences (hopefully) on it sitting right there on the shelf looking pretty?

This is strategic, not tactical. Microsoft is looking down the road, they aren't looking at the pretty duckies swimming in the gutter and rear-ending a mac truck. I'm willing to give them that much of the benefit of the doubt, and let them show me what they really intend to do with this hardware.

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Um, MS, how about releasing the peripheral for Windows 7 PCs?! That would be one hell of a huge application to use it with...ahem.
Ever plugged in your vision camera or wired 360 controller or (perhaps) your HD-DVD drive?

They all work on your PC, and I think there's no doubt that an external Natal (I think we could see this built into the console at some point) would also work on it.

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Ever plugged in your vision camera or wired 360 controller or (perhaps) your HD-DVD drive?

They all work on your PC, and I think there's no doubt that an external Natal (I think we could see this built into the console at some point) would also work on it.

Well duh. My point was that if MS is waiting on a killer ap for this, Windows 7 would fit the bill. 8)

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Um, MS, how about releasing the peripheral for Windows 7 PCs?! That would be one hell of a huge application to use it with...ahem.

They already said they plan on using Project Natal technology on other platforms (namely, PC) besides gaming (namely, Xbox 360). So you can bet on it.

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Looking at the past history of pheriperials (power glove, sony's eye, etc), do you think it will be a massive success?

I know MS can afford launching it and take a loss back. To get feedback from people who bought it, and discover why people didn't buy it.

Me getting this will depend on price, on software avaiability, and lifespan of the device (when will they get a new xbox).

EDIT: Just look at the post that says that sony's ps2 eyetoy sold 10 million copies. Damn that's a lot. But how much of it was in Japan?

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The hand/face/voice recognition stuff is the future of interactive with computers...period. MS is just productizing it first to market via entertainment (quick ROI).

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I don't imagine it will be too hard for devs to tap into Natal. If Burnout Paradise works, imagine the awesomeness of Fight Night Round 4 when you are boxing with your body. I can't wait for this.

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I don't imagine it will be too hard for devs to tap into Natal. If Burnout Paradise works, imagine the awesomeness of Fight Night Round 4 when you are boxing with your body. I can't wait for this.

For 15 to 30 mins maybe yeah, but boxing thin air for 6-8 hours through the career mode? Not really.

Mini-game boxing would be more suitable for this, not something as complex as Fight Night where you need to be pulling off the right styles of punches/grapples and everything else everytime instead of relying on a camera to register the correct style of hook you want. Grappling could also be an issue, what do you do, hug thin air?

Another thing lacking is contextual feedback. Boxing is about being hit hard and knowing you've been hit hard, at least rumble from a controller can somewhat aid that notion. And before anyone says hold the 360 controller and punch, yeah, that's not going to start lawsuits when 360 controllers really do go through TVs as there's no wrist strap :p

Edited by Audioboxer
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For 15 to 30 mins maybe yeah, but boxing thin air for 6-8 hours through the career mode? Not really.

If you're playing that game for 6-8 hour straight, you probably need to get out more. I'd love to play a game like FNR4 where I physically have to duck, weave and hit - That would be so sweet! I have been boxing some years ago and I still do it for some light work-out ( Boxing in air is quite effective ), imagine combining that with a game? ... This has actually made me want to get my hands on Natal even more.

Natal FIT :laugh:

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For 15 to 30 mins maybe yeah, but boxing thin air for 6-8 hours through the career mode? Not really.

Mini-game boxing would be more suitable for this, not something as complex as Fight Night where you need to be pulling off the right styles of punches/grapples and everything else everytime instead of relying on a camera to register the correct style of hook you want. Grappling could also be an issue, what do you do, hug thin air?

Another thing lacking is contextual feedback. Boxing is about being hit hard and knowing you've been hit hard, at least rumble from a controller can somewhat aid that notion. And before anyone says hold the 360 controller and punch, yeah, that's not going to start lawsuits when 360 controllers really do go through TVs as there's no wrist strap :p

i should think if you play with Natal for 15 minutes you would be more satisfied with playing that you would 8 hours

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wow that's pretty good, I don't even know any games that supported the eye toy.... and my ps2 is the console I have the most games for ;)

It was a much bigger success here in the UK and Europe because support was far better here.

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Looking at the past history of pheriperials (power glove, sony's eye, etc), do you think it will be a massive success?

wii balance board? Guitar hero / rockband plastic instruments?

If MS can get the software support for it, then it will sell. But it is a big if.

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MS has already stated that the goal for this technology it to tie in with Live and Live Arcade (see Gizmodo article for quote, I'm lazy this morning), I'm not too worried about it taking the place of the 360 game pad for more detailed games.

As I stated in another discussion, games have finally gotten really good at creating cinematic moments and communicating story elements (sometimes odd or just bad elements, but it is progress). While it might be fun for few minutes to pretend you are haning from that cliff wall by your finger tips, you woudn't want to spend whole game doing that and being distracted from those ever improving elements, so this will be limited to arcade and family titles for the most part. Why do you think the demos we saw were focussed on such titles, let alone girls picking out clothes for each other (okay, this has the potential to be amazing with the right girl) or mom controlling a movie? As audioboxer stated, you wouldn't be getting the same FNR4 or Assassin's Creed II if the game culled out those scripted moments and fine controls to let you flail about. Why do you think so many Wii games are shallow, why put money into big, complex scenes that no one has time to watch?

I am sure a couple decent games will make use of Natal's advanced features, but by and large this is mini game/arcade stuff and that is just fine.

More importantly, you look like a douche nozzle with your pretend steering wheel so you aren't going to want to do that for too long.

Except GTA isn't the kind of game that's going to use Natal - that'll be played with a controller. Hardcore AAA titles aren't what Natal is for. The hardcore gaming market isn't what Natal is for. Microsoft already captured the hardcore market and they aren't going to change the model that captured it, now they have to go after the Wii's market, and that's what Natal is for.

-Spenser

+1 to man in WI.

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If you're playing that game for 6-8 hour straight, you probably need to get out more. I'd love to play a game like FNR4 where I physically have to duck, weave and hit - That would be so sweet! I have been boxing some years ago and I still do it for some light work-out ( Boxing in air is quite effective ), imagine combining that with a game? ... This has actually made me want to get my hands on Natal even more.

Natal FIT :laugh:

I'm not talking about playing it for 6-8 hours straight, I'm talking about playing the career which will probably last for something like that all through punching thin air.

IMO the effect of the motion controlling would wear off within 15-30 minutes then I'd prefer to play the career myself with the controller and rumble.

A boxing mini-game with friends might be fun more often, but again that will be in short burts with friends not prolonged play.

Punchout on the Wii is great, but I do not play that game over UFC, nor would I over Fight Night 4, it's fun with friends and in short burts myself, not as a serious simulation of boxing though.

There's better unique potential for natal in the future IMO.

Edited by Audioboxer
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