Boycott Valve


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they won't valve said it themselves

When/where?

If we get a discount I'll be happy. But it would need to be significant.

It's not like I'd turn down a discount :) I do agree that there should perhaps be a reduction for L4D owners, but I'd disagree on the size. 10-20%.

Besides, we're not even sure what form the game could be released: I'm somewhat holding out for an Orange Box style release with Episode 3 and Portal 2. It seems somewhat less likely now E3 has passed, but I believe it's still possible.

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L4D has been getting updates, many updates. Not as large as new campaigns or weapons, but it got survival mode and many other patches.

I bought it on Steam, when it was first released.

SDK is coming: it's just in beta atm.

Er, right. What? It's really terrible when a game looks like the game it's sequelling?

I believe this is very likely. It would likely have broken the original game.

Do you know that L4D1 players won't get a discount? (Not sure what you meant about "doesn't even make sense")

Im doing what you are doing, Assuming. and it doesnt make sense because the content they are releasing is less of a sequel and more of an expansion pack.

At this point Its not worth arguing with you, You dont understand any argument against you, and your sig link to wowwiki makes me believe you are infact just a troll from trade chat.

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the new tech would require a major rework and playtest of the original game?

Adding multi-core rendering, which is a graphics/physics engine upgrade is nothing like creating new game content.

They would need to do playtesting on the sequel anyway and it includes all the content from the first game so they are doing it anyway just charging us for it as a sequel.

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They would need to do playtesting on the sequel anyway so that doesn't even mater.

Yes it does. You'd have to playtest significantly more content, and possibly even redesign whole areas of L4D1.

Im doing what you are doing, Assuming. and it doesnt make sense because the content they are releasing is less of a sequel and more of an expansion pack.

At this point Its not worth arguing with you, You dont understand any argument against you, and your sig link to wowwiki makes me believe you are infact just a troll from trade chat.

Yes, assuming is bad. That's what I'm trying to prevent people doing. A lot of my comments include questions, because we don't know a lot of the answers. It is foolish to assume the worst though. That is not typical of Valve, nor is it good business practice.

And please, continuing to say "less of a sequel and more of an expansion pack" doesn't make it true. I've yet to see a good argument as to why, except when compared to idea of what some people thought L4D would become after many content updates....

... which notably for TF2 did not all come in the first six months. We're up to a year and a half now of updates, spread out over that time.

Also ... maybe I should point out I'm one of the main guys behind WoWWiki then? It's not like my username is different.

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Yes it does. You'd have to playtest significantly more content, and possibly even redesign whole areas of L4D1.

Yes, assuming is bad. That's what I'm trying to prevent people doing. A lot of my comments include questions, because we don't know a lot of the answers. It is foolish to assume the worst though. That is not typical of Valve, nor is it good business practice.

Also ... maybe I should point out I'm one of the main guys behind WoWWiki then? It's not like my username is different.

if you're trying to stop people from assuming you shouldnt do it your self.

And just cause you are a main guy behind a wow fansite(Which is lulz worthy on its own, but commendable anyways, I use the site alot.) doesnt mean you are not a troll. for all we know you could be a /b/tard.

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i believe they said they wouldn't on g4tv or some video i was watching

Sorry, but you gotta realise that ain't good enough.

(Btw, this has been a pretty stimulating discussion so far despite my admitted *bite*yness at the start - thanks)

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Sorry, but you gotta realise that ain't good enough.

(Btw, this has been a pretty stimulating discussion so far despite my admitted *bite*yness at the start - thanks)

what they said it themselves that they were going to charge full game price for it

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if you're trying to stop people from assuming you shouldnt do it your self.

And just cause you are a main guy behind a wow fansite(Which is lulz worthy on its own, but commendable anyways, I use the site alot.) doesnt mean you are not a troll. for all we know you could be a /b/tard.

You might be able to tell from how I type, I am quite obviously not. Attempting to smear my name is a pointless exercise, and you'd do well to check my post history before making more baseless accusations.

Now, what am I baselessly assuming, exactly?

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Yes it does. You'd have to playtest significantly more content, and possibly even redesign whole areas of L4D1.

Which they are doing anyway as it includes all content from the original game including Campaigns and Characters if you research what was said at E3.

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what they said it themselves that they were going to charge full game price for it

No, I asked for a source. While you may be correct, we cannot verify it without an actual source.

Note, they would have had to specify that L4D owners would be paying full price too for it to be valid.

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And just cause you are a main guy behind a wow fansite(Which is lulz worthy on its own, but commendable anyways, I use the site alot.) doesnt mean you are not a troll. for all we know you could be a /b/tard.

No offence but, if anyone is trolling here it's you.

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Which they are doing anyway as it includes all content from the original game including Campaigns and Characters if you research what was said at E3.

Did they say they were going to upgrade it all, though? (They could feasibly just essentially bundle L4D1)

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No, I asked for a source. While you may be correct, we cannot verify it without an actual source.

Note, they would have had to specify that L4D owners would be paying full price too for it to be valid.

what just because it's not from the almighty internet doesn't mean it's not true, just watch tv and get away from your computer and i also told you were i saw them say it, even on the internet you can get reruns

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Did they say they were going to upgrade it all, though?

I dont know.

Also ... maybe I should point out I'm one of the main guys behind WoWWiki then? It's not like my username is different.

Lol

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You might be able to tell from how I type, I am quite obviously not. Attempting to smear my name is a pointless exercise, and you'd do well to check my post history before making more baseless accusations.

Now, what am I baselessly assuming, exactly?

That they are changing enough to be worthy of a sequel release and not a DLC.

Noting, Im only defending this cause I tend to play devil's advocate, if these above people cant keep the evidence straight, im going to drop this argument. Bah. I hardly give a damn about valve, their games do little to impress me(Minus portal)

As for the troll comment, I made that cause you deliberately dismiss some parts of peoples arguments just cause you cant seem to get it through yo head. But as I previously said if this evidence people keep laying out for me to use is crap, then you can dismiss this.

Its been fun debating with you. not very often I get to have this much fun outside of WoW:p

No offence but, if anyone is trolling here it's you.

I am a troll. I browse 4chan and hang out in trade chat. :D

so none taken. However it was not my intention to troll this topic sorry you took it that way.

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I dont know.

To be honest, I hope they do ... but I still wouldn't really see that as a reason to classify it as an expansion, or something to get for free, due to the new content being larger than the original game.

If they did update it for L4D2, then backporting it could make sense, and would be cool for those not buying L4D2.

Now, a lot of this does still depend on what Valve's plans are for the original over the next 6 months - that is, whether they actually do have more significant updates coming out.

That they are changing enough to be worthy of a sequel release and not a DLC.

Noting, Im only defending this cause I tend to play devil's advocate, if these above people cant keep the evidence straight, im going to drop this argument. Bah. I hardly give a damn about valve, their games do little to impress me(Minus portal)

As for the troll comment, I made that cause you deliberately dismiss some parts of peoples arguments just cause you cant seem to get it through yo head. But as I previously said if this evidence people keep laying out for me to use is crap, then you can dismiss this.

Its been fun debating with you. not very often I get to have this much fun outside of WoW:p

Well, it's not an assumption that they're not changing enough for it to be a "new game". They've detailed a lot of the changes, and the new content ends up being larger than the original game. That's enough to be called either a standalone expansion pack or sequel. Paid DLC, maybe at a distant stretch. But it would be *huge*, absolutely massive, and much more than the Xbox is likely to be able to handle.

Ha, and I like to play devil's advocate too ... possibly not great though when pitted against each other ;)

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To be fair, CS:S isn't getting huge updates because the players don't really want it to be updated (people whine and bitch when Valve do anything new to CS:S, now imagine them updating the engine and maps). DoD:S did get an update, but that was probably only to see how feasible it was to port it, Valve said they were going to port all their older games to the Orange Box engine (which drops DX7 support too, so they'd have to evaluate each game on a case by case basis, if 90% of your players are on DX7 machines it's stupid to drop them) but that hasn't happened so far.

Now, Valve's been damn good to the community, so when they say that they wanted it to be an update but couldn't, I'm inclined to agree with them. But I would like them to offer a discount if you're a L4D owner.

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To be honest, I hope they do ... but I still wouldn't really see that as a reason to classify it as an expansion, or something to get for free, due to the new content being larger than the original game.

it wouldn't exactly be free we paid a hefty price for an incomplete game i guess they need to make money but still would of been nice if they just upgraded the left 4 dead with the content that we should have been given to start with hell even just the new guns i don't care for the rest

the problem is people bought it with intentions of more being added which never happened (more content not more modes)

it would of been nice to play with extra guns but after paying full price pre-ordering the game i can't justify buying the same game again for a few more guns and creeps

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Don't really see the problem tbh, as long as there's enough new content (and that's the real key), gaming's full of 1 year release cycles, Call of Duty, Guitar Hero, Final Fantasy (before it hit 12 :)), so why is this so different? I'd imagine Valve pretty much need a release a year of some form.

Hell if they'd released EP1,2,3 a year apart, no one would be complaining, and from the length of episodes 1 and 2, I'd understand more if you were complaining about that.

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To be fair, CS:S isn't getting huge updates because the players don't really want it to be updated (people whine and bitch when Valve do anything new to CS:S, now imagine them updating the engine and maps).

I seem to recall much bitching over whether or not the riot shield should be included, it was crazy. And the pricing system ... argh.

Even the original HL and Counter-Strike still get patches every now and then, though mostly to the engine.

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Don't really see the problem tbh, as long as there's enough new content (and that's the real key), gaming's full of 1 year release cycles, Call of Duty, Guitar Hero, Final Fantasy (before it hit 12 :)), so why is this so different? I'd imagine Valve pretty much need a release a year of some form.

Hell if they'd released EP1,2,3 a year apart, no one would be complaining, and from the length of episodes 1 and 2, I'd understand more if you were complaining about that.

I'd say the issue is people are used to valve giving out hand outs to people who buy their games in the form of pretty much free expansions, and with all this chat flying around about missing content patches people are getting ****ed off for not getting what they "Paid for".(One should not rely on the words of another, and one should not lie to others so both are kind of.. meh)

Anyways, im dropping this argument, no evidence to support all this stuff about content and stuff so.. yeah, and the rest of it is all reliant on opinion of whether or not its Sequel worthy, and an opinion cant really make an argument.

Thanks for the fun time, Time for bed /yawn

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I seem to recall much bitching over whether or not the riot shield should be included, it was crazy. And the pricing system ... argh.

Even the original HL and Counter-Strike still get patches every now and then, though mostly to the engine.

And people still bitch about CS 1.6.

CS and CS:S are in a strange situation, the less the developer supports them, the more the community likes it.

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I support a reduced price, but VALVe should not give away their work for free. As for the Source engine, it's not that simple to update between engines. Loads of bugs would have to be worked out and it's just too much effort on VALVe's part to do this for a 5 year old game.

I support their Steam client fully. Not only has it come a long way from the HL days, but it has great deals on games at prices not found elsewhere. Not to mention a great friends system and an overlay + in-game browser to boot.

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