72-year old great-grandmother tasered by police

[dwhall]

I'm not going to go so far to say that she deserved this but she was warned over and over again to comply or be tasered.

Do I believe this is extreme for the circumstance? yeah I do... I thought the whole point of the taser was to help control those

who were a physical threat to the officer or themselves. I suppose the old lady could have pulled a knife on him but I didn't see

it in the video. Even though I don't agree with the officers actions and I think it should be looked at, If a police officer tells me to

turn around or be tased, my ass is turning around. I'm not gonna get my ass tased then cry because he used extreme force after

I was warned in the first place.

[Rohdekill]

What the hell since when was cussing at a police officer grounds to get out a goddamn taser i cant believe people are trying to justify this.

In the UK the regular police dont have tasers and they manage fine with young strong offenders how in the hell was using a taser on a great grandma justified in any way.

I suggest you actually watch the video and ask "is this woman following and complying to all directives given by the officer?" The answer is clearly no. Thus, even after warning her, the woman still refused to comply. THAT is what makes it justifiable. The swearing is meaningless to the officer. But a verbal "No" from her is a clear response that she has no intention of complying.

My pity for her is none. And I feel age has zero value to the scenario. It doesn't matter a hill of beans if you're 20 or 200. Non compliance is non-compliance.

[redwagon]

I see what your doing there. ;)

Time to retire from this thread.

I see that you don't have good answers for a young male officer tasering a 72 year old woman or else you would have answered my rebuttal to your weak arguments. Yes, I agree it's time for you to leave this thread.

I suggest you actually watch the video and ask "is this woman following and complying to all directives given by the officer?" The answer is clearly no. Thus, even after warning her, the woman still refused to comply. THAT is what makes it justifiable. The swearing is meaningless to the officer. But a verbal "No" from her is a clear response that she has no intention of complying.

My pity for her is none. And I feel age has zero value to the scenario. It doesn't matter a hill of beans if you're 20 or 200. Non compliance is non-compliance.

When you're old and get riled up by officer pushing you around, I hope you get tasered like you wouldn't believe because "20 or 200, Non compliance is non-compliance."

[Brody McKee]

He should have punched the old bat. Thrown her to the ground. Kicked her. Then she could complain.

[macrosslover]

I see that you don't have good answers for a young male officer tasering a 72 year old woman or else you would have answered my rebuttal to your weak arguments. Yes, I agree it's time for you to leave this thread.

so basically what you're saying is if a man gets his ass kicked by a woman he sucks..but if he subdues that woman he still sucks? lol

but again tell me how exactly you can "force" a resistant person into the back of your car. Tell how can he handcuff her without it appearing that he's tossing her against something, how can he grab her and pick her up to take her to his car without her kicking him in the balls?

and then tell me what could the old lady have done differently? was she wrong?

one thing people are missing, that probably didn't watch all the video, is that he called for backup. Yes when he's talking to his shoulder he called for backup. the report said he asked her 5 times to stand-down, yet the video doesn't show that it skips straight to the tazing. I bet if we saw the complete whole video we'll see what she did during that time to further provoke his actions.

Edited June 11, 2009 by macrosslover

[TonyLock]

Every police officer that tazers someone should be tazer themselves (under laboratory conditions, of course) so they know the effects of a tazer gun.

The dooshbag in this vid issued an instruction less than one second after tazering her and when she failed to follow that instruction, he tazed her again. Does he not that it takes more than 4 seconds for her senses to come back to normal where she is able to hear after being tazerd?

[Dotdot]

Age isnt a disabilty, yes tazering someone that age runs a higher risk of injury but she was warmed A LOT, 5 times+ in the video. Imho she should be treated any differently to anyone else in that situation.

[redwagon]

so basically what you're saying is if a man gets his ass kicked by a woman he sucks..but if he subdues that woman he still sucks? lol

Uhhh, no. I'm saying a young man who is a police officer sucks if he can't even handcuff a 72 year old woman.

but again tell me how exactly you can "force" a resistant person into the back of your car. Tell how can he handcuff her without it appearing that he's tossing her against something, how can he grab her and pick her up to take her to his car without her kicking him in the balls?

Let me ask you this. Do you think YOU could handcuff a 72 year old woman without tasering her? I would have to have to say yes.

and then tell me what could the old lady have done differently? was she wrong?

Yes, she was being a bitch. But my point is, as a police officer, you scan and evaluate the situation. If you are even a little competent as a police officer, you can arrest a 72 year old woman without having to taser her.

one thing people are missing, that probably didn't watch all the video, is that he called for backup. Yes when he's talking to his shoulder he called for backup. the report said he asked her 5 times to stand-down, yet the video doesn't show that it skips straight to the tazing. I bet if we saw the complete whole video we'll see what she did during that time to further provoke his actions.

Let me ask you again. If you were the police officer, would YOU need to call backup to handle a 72 old woman? I would hope not.

Age isnt a disabilty, yes tazering someone that age runs a higher risk of injury but she was warmed A LOT, 5 times+ in the video. Imho she should be treated any differently to anyone else in that situation.

I'm glad that you say everyone should be treated the same in this situation. Cause there are no grey areas with you. So if a toddler is running around the car and not listening to the police officer, like "5 times+" the officer should just taser the kid. Very nice and reasonable thinking.

[PricklyPoo]

anyone who thinks he was in the right has no common sense and should continue to spend your life behind your computer screen (like you have till now) so that people like me don't have to put up with you in 'real life'.

All hail the Lord. :rolleyes:

[HacKage]

Regardless of whether tasering the old lady is right, when a cop tells you do something, you do it! If you have quite clearly broken the law, and the cop tells you to back off etc. then you do it. Sure he could have used other techniques in order to sort out the situation, but again, if your told to stop what you are doing or you will get tasered, then you stop what your doing! I can totally understand where people are coming from saying it was over the top, but come on, would any of us expect different treatment if it was one of us?

Saying that he should have put her up against the car and cuffed her, I wonder how many people would have slammed the officer for roughing up an old lady..... "Why did he slam her against the car and cuff her, shes an old lady ffs!"

[Miuku.]

I can totally understand where people are coming from saying it was over the top, but come on, would any of us expect different treatment if it was one of us?

If I was pulled over here by a police officer and I started getting aggressive, what would I expect?

I would expect the police officer to talk his way out of it - using basic psychology (which is part of the training - at least over here) and disarming the situation by calmly responding to the issue. Unless the apprehended person was under medication, intoxicated or under the influence of drugs - talking works in almost every single situation, despite what the movies or the "Cops" show tells you.

Was the person apprehended in this video armed? No.

Was the person able to physically threaten the police officer? No.

Was there a risk of escape or harming bystanders? No.

There was no reason to use force when he could've just cooled the situation with time.

[macrosslover]

Uhhh, no. I'm saying a young man who is a police officer sucks if he can't even handcuff a 72 year old woman.

Let me ask you this. Do you think YOU could handcuff a 72 year old woman without tasering her? I would have to have to say yes.

Yes, she was being a bitch. But my point is, as a police officer, you scan and evaluate the situation. If you are even a little competent as a police officer, you can arrest a 72 year old woman without having to taser her.

Let me ask you again. If you were the police officer, would YOU need to call backup to handle a 72 old woman? I would hope not.

I'm glad that you say everyone should be treated the same in this situation. Cause there are no grey areas with you. So if a toddler is running around the car and not listening to the police officer, like "5 times+" the officer should just taser the kid. Very nice and reasonable thinking.

well for one thing a toddler isn't an adult so it's not the same thing. She can fully understand directions given to her so it's a bad example.

but since you have so much experience at handcuffing 72yo women, I defer to your experience.

Nobody is saying he couldn't have also subdued her without a taser, the question is could he have done it without hurting her in that form as well, he is as you say a young strong bucking man and she's just a feeble old small great grandmother. we can only guess what man handling her will do.

and yes any police officer would need to call backup. You making out it out like it's some macho thing..again..but the backup is as much to help him as it is to be a witness for him in case of blow back.

If I was pulled over here by a police officer and I started getting aggressive, what would I expect?

I would expect the police officer to talk his way out of it - using basic psychology (which is part of the training - at least over here) and disarming the situation by calmly responding to the issue. Unless the apprehended person was under medication, intoxicated or under the influence of drugs - talking works in almost every single situation, despite what the movies or the "Cops" show tells you.

Was the person apprehended in this video armed? No.

Was the person able to physically threaten the police officer? No.

Was there a risk of escape or harming bystanders? No.

There was no reason to use force when he could've just cooled the situation with time.

well he asked her more than 5 times to stand down , I'd say he did enough to try and calm the situation. I've noticed it's mostly europeans who are saying he should have "talked" her down no matter how much time it took because your officers do it. I think the main fact you all are missing is that officers are not your equals. They have absolutely no need to reason with you.

let me put it another way, if your boss asks you to do something 5 times and you stand in his face and tell him f off..what do you think is going to happen? if it's your parents? so what do you think would happen if you do it to a cop. it's basic disrepect to an authority figure and a 72yo grandmother who is obviously an authority figure in her own family should have known better.

Edited June 11, 2009 by macrosslover

[Panacik]

I see that you don't have good answers for a young male officer tasering a 72 year old woman or else you would have answered my rebuttal to your weak arguments. Yes, I agree it's time for you to leave this thread.

When you're old and get riled up by officer pushing you around, I hope you get tasered like you wouldn't believe because "20 or 200, Non compliance is non-compliance."

Did you even watch the video?

She is not frail and was/is using her age as a weapon to try and worm her way out of the ticket.

Lets say your woken in the night by an old lady like her who has gone a little mad and has tied you up and is shouting in your face. Now the police arrive and she kicks off with them. Should they tazer her? I would say yes. She is commiting a crime and is purposly being a pain, so should be treated as any other person.

If the police officer man handled her in order to perform the arrest, you could argue that he used brute force etc. So using the force the law allows him to (the tazer) in this case, means he saves himself from possibly being sued for beating her etc.

Every police officer that tazers someone should be tazer themselves (under laboratory conditions, of course) so they know the effects of a tazer gun.

The dooshbag in this vid issued an instruction less than one second after tazering her and when she failed to follow that instruction, he tazed her again. Does he not that it takes more than 4 seconds for her senses to come back to normal where she is able to hear after being tazerd?

I believe in both the US and UK the offiers are tazered during their training, so they understand what the suspects will be going through when they use it on them. I THINK the same goes for the pepper sprays etc...

[Kralik]

Pretty disgusting if you ask me. I don't see why the cops couldn't have just grabbed her and handcuffed her, the shock of a taser could seriously **** an elderly up (let alone **** someone of any age up, as research has shown).

I agree..

[redwagon]

well for one thing a toddler isn't an adult so it's not the same thing. She can fully understand directions given to her so it's a bad example.

That example was for the guy who said that it didn't matter what the situation is, everyone should be treated the same, as not listening to the police officer.

but since you have so much experience at handcuffing 72yo women, I defer to your experience.

Nobody is saying he couldn't have also subdued her without a taser, the question is could he have done it without hurting her in that form as well, he is as you say a young strong bucking man and she's just a feeble old small great grandmother. we can only guess what man handling her will do.

So you are saying you would inflict less damage by tasering someone rather than handcuffing them?

and yes any police officer would need to call backup. You making out it out like it's some macho thing..again..but the backup is as much to help him as it is to be a witness for him in case of blow back.

ANY officer would call for backup against an unarmed 72 year old woman? I'm pretty sure that's untrue.

well he asked her more than 5 times to stand down , I'd say he did enough to try and calm the situation. I've noticed it's mostly europeans who are saying he should have "talked" her down no matter how much time it took because your officers do it. I think the main fact you all are missing is that officers are not your equals. They have absolutely no need to reason with you.

Actually they are suppose to try to reason with you first. You seem to be delusional from watching cop movies. It's not they go in tasers ablazing and tasering everyone first and asking questions later.

let me put it another way, if your boss asks you to do something 5 times and you stand in his face and tell him f off..what do you think is going to happen? if it's your parents? so what do you think would happen if you do it to a cop. it's basic disrepect to an authority figure and a 72yo grandmother who is obviously an authority figure in her own family should have known better.

I'm pretty sure my boss wouldn't taser me if I told him to f...off.

Did you even watch the video?

She is not frail and was/is using her age as a weapon to try and worm her way out of the ticket.

Lets say your woken in the night by an old lady like her who has gone a little mad and has tied you up and is shouting in your face. Now the police arrive and she kicks off with them. Should they tazer her? I would say yes. She is commiting a crime and is purposly being a pain, so should be treated as any other person.

So you're comparing kidnapping and confinement to a speeding ticket? This woman was unarmed. Do you really believe that she was such a physical threat to the police officer that he needed to taser her to subdue her?

If the police officer man handled her in order to perform the arrest, you could argue that he used brute force etc. So using the force the law allows him to (the tazer) in this case, means he saves himself from possibly being sued for beating her etc.

So you are saying being tasered is safer for the 72 year old lady, then being handcuffed and arrested?

[macrosslover]

That example was for the guy who said that it didn't matter what the situation is, everyone should be treated the same, as not listening to the police officer.

So you are saying you would inflict less damage by tasering someone rather than handcuffing them?

ANY officer would call for backup against an unarmed 72 year old woman? I'm pretty sure that's untrue.

Actually they are suppose to try to reason with you first. You seem to be delusional from watching cop movies. It's not they go in tasers ablazing and tasering everyone first and asking questions later.

I'm pretty sure my boss wouldn't taser me if I told him to f...off.

your boss would fire you and your parents would probably hit you. the point is you would face a punishment for your actions just like she did. Once again I would consider him asking her more than 5 times to stand down as reasoning with her. It's not like he opened the door and fired his taser at the start, she had plenty of opportunity and he gave her plenty of chances to stand down.

but like i said previously, i defer to your experience, how can he "simply" handcuff a combative 72yo suspect without hurting her? explain to me the steps he should have taken.

let me ask you this though..if the officer had been a woman how do you think she should have responded to it?

Edited June 11, 2009 by macrosslover

[redwagon]

your boss would fire you and your parents would probably hit you. the point is you would face a punishment for your actions just like she did. Once again I would consider him asking her more than 5 times to stand down as reasoning with her. It's not like he opened the door and fired his taser at the start, she had plenty of opportunity and he gave her plenty of chances to stand down.

but like i said previously, i defer to your experience, how can he "simply" handcuff a combative 72yo suspect without hurting her? explain to me the steps he should have taken.

let me ask you this though..if the officer had been a woman how do you think she should have responded to it?

Yes, my boss would fire me, but he wouldn't pull out a taser and taser me because I wasn't listening to him. LOL I love that you use the typical cop movie term "stand down." Does show you watch too much tv and make assumptions that police can do whatever they want to subdue 72 year old women who don't "stand down."

You didn't answer if tasering someone is safer than handcuffing them.

So you're saying that everyone time someone gets handcuffed they get injured? What a ridiculous statement.

So we're going to deal in the "what ifs" in your last question now? Instead of focusing on the incident at hand? Ok, I'll play that game. What if the 72 year old lady had a heart condition and she got a heart attack from the taser? What if the 72 year old woman fell awkwardly after being tasered and broker her neck because her arms were incapacitated from the taser that she couldn't brace her fall? What if the woman bit part of her tongue off due to the shock of the taser?

Edited June 11, 2009 by redwagon

[macrosslover]

Yes, my boss would fire me, but he wouldn't pull out a taser and taser me because I wasn't listening to him. LOL I love that you use the typical cop movie term "stand down." Does show you watch too much tv and make assumptions that police can do whatever they want to subdue 72 year old women who don't "stand down."

You didn't answer if tasering someone is safer than handcuffing them.

So you're saying that everyone time someone gets handcuffed they get injured? What a ridiculous statement.

So we're going to deal in the "what ifs" in your last question now? Instead of focusing on the incident at hand? Ok, I'll play that game. What if the 72 year old lady had a heart condition and she got a heart attack from the taser? What if the 72 year old woman fell awkwardly after being tasered and broker her neck because her arms were incapacitated from the taser that she couldn't brace her fall? What if the woman bit part of her tongue off due to the shock of the taser?

As a note I don't watch cop movies or shows, I don't personally like them....but you still didn't answer me what if it was a female cop, how should she react. you still haven't said how exactly he should have subdued her, you're saying he could have did better but tell me how, explain the steps, I mean obviously you are experienced, so explain the proper steps to those of us who don't know.

and yes tasering somebody to safely handcuff them is right depending on the situation. I agree it was the right use in this situation.

you say he should have handcuffed her, but that implies under normal circumstances she willing turns around to be handcuffed. Obviously she was resistant in this video, so I ask you again with your vast experience how exactly should he have handcuffed her, take us through it step by step.

also all of your what if's could easily be applied if he had gone about the process of trying to subdue her to handcuff her which is why it's so important we all know the proper steps to do it in the situation to avoid all of that, so tell me please.

Edited June 11, 2009 by macrosslover

[TheHouseBunny]

She totally deserved it, when you do a something like speeding and are getting stopped, just be nice and act normal to the cop, it benefits you, and i talk from my own experience.

[Berserk87]

all the stupid cop had to do was grab her by the arm, put her in the back of the car, and drive away.

he overreacted instead of using common sense... he should be banned from the force and a lawsuit brought against him.

anyone who thinks he was in the right has no common sense and should continue to spend your life behind your computer screen (like you have till now) so that people like me don't have to put up with you in 'real life'.

she was assaulting him and resisting arrest, as well as putting both there lives in danger.

was he in the right? definitely. could he have handled it better? probably.

[redwagon]

As a note I don't watch cop movies or shows, I don't personally like them....but you still didn't answer me what if it was a female cop, how should she react. you still haven't said how exactly he should have subdued her, you're saying he could have did better but tell me how, explain the steps, I mean obviously you are experienced, so explain the proper steps to those of us who don't know.

and yes tasering somebody to safely handcuff them is right depending on the situation. I agree it was the right use in this situation.

you say he should have handcuffed her, but that implies under normal circumstances she willing turns around to be handcuffed. Obviously she was resistant in this video, so I ask you again with your vast experience how exactly should he have handcuffed her, take us through it step by step.

also all of your what if's could easily be applied if he had gone about the process of trying to subdue her to handcuff her which is why it's so important we all know the proper steps to do it in the situation to avoid all of that, so tell me please.

So you want me to answer your ridiculous questions of ifs and what steps are needed but you don't answer mine? You haven't answered one of my questions. All you do is dance around them and ask me for the "steps" and "what if it were a woman officer".

How about you answer my questions and I'll give you a detailed step-by-step report on how a 250 pound man can handcuff a 100 pound woman without breaking her bones.

Edited June 11, 2009 by redwagon

[macrosslover]

So you want me to answer your ridiculous questions of ifs and what steps are needed but you don't answer mine? You haven't answered one of my questions. All you do is dance around them and ask me for the "steps" and "what if it were a woman officer".

How about you answer my questions and I'll give you a detailed step-by-step report on how a 250 pound man can handcuff a 100 pound woman without breaking her bones.

i answered your questions, i'm sorry you need to re-read.

[redwagon]

i answered your questions, i'm sorry you need to re-read.

Here are my questions that you haven't answered:

1) Do you think YOU could handcuff a 72 year old woman without tasering her?

2) Let me ask you again. If you were the police officer, would YOU need to call backup to handle a 72 old woman?

3) So you are saying you would inflict less damage by tasering someone rather than handcuffing them?

4) ANY (as in every one of the officers in the United States) officer would call for backup against an unarmed 72 year old woman?

5) So you're saying that everyone time someone gets handcuffed they get injured?

[macrosslover]

Here are my questions that you haven't answered:

1) Do you think YOU could handcuff a 72 year old woman without tasering her?

2) Let me ask you again. If you were the police officer, would YOU need to call backup to handle a 72 old woman?

3) So you are saying you would inflict less damage by tasering someone rather than handcuffing them?

4) ANY (as in every one of the officers in the United States) officer would call for backup against an unarmed 72 year old woman?

5) So you're saying that everyone time someone gets handcuffed they get injured?

1. yes you can..the question is can you do it without hurting her and i'm waiting for you to tell me how you can do it without hurting her.

2. yes you call for backup not because it's some macho thing and you big guy who handles small woman, but because you know you're going to be in an akward situation and you need another person there for you.

3. compared to possibly tossing them around rather than simply tasering them yes..which again is why I need to know how you would have it done without tossing her around and injuring her.

4. that's not a good question. not every police officer wears a vest, does that mean it's the right call? no, in this situation I believe he made the right call.

5. I don't think you've ever seen a combative person get handcuffed have you? these are the keywords, combative and resistive. It generally takes more than one officers to SAFELY handcuff a resistive subject.

but obviously again since you have a better way to do it, please enlighten me how he should have safely handcuffed her without causing any injury to her or him.

[redwagon]

1. yes you can..the question is can you do it without hurting her and i'm waiting for you to tell me how you can do it without hurting her.

2. yes you call for backup not because it's some macho thing and you big guy who handles small woman, but because you know you're going to be in an akward situation and you need another person there for you.

3. compared to possibly tossing them around rather than simply tasering them yes..which again is why I need to know how you would have it done without tossing her around and injuring her.

4. that's not a good question. not every police officer wears a vest, does that mean it's the right call? no, in this situation I believe he made the right call.

5. I don't think you've ever seen a combative person get handcuffed have you? these are the keywords, combative and resistive. It generally takes more than one officers to SAFELY handcuff a resistive subject.

but obviously again since you have a better way to do it, please enlighten me how he should have safely handcuffed her without causing any injury to her or him.

1) You are telling me, you, as in macrosslover, could not handcuff this 72 old woman without hurting her?

2) Every officer who encounters a resistive and combative senior citizen calls for backup?

3) So to handcuff someone, you have to "toss them around" like they are a stuffed toy?

4) So it was the right call to for a 250 pound man trained in physical combat and weapons combat to radio for backup against an unarmed 100 pound 72 year old woman?

5) I'm pretty sure a lot of police officers can say that they could by themselves arrest and handcuff a 72 year old woman who was combative and resistive without hurting them.