Mike Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 :blink:What are you talking about? people are already able to chose which browser to use. I've chosen firefox, and hardly anyone has chosen opera. Simple. Read what i quoted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedr0 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 One can only dream that would happen - I have a bottle of champagne waiting for that day. The amount of investments in alternative solutions that would happen that day would be the best thing that has happened to the IT industry in the last 30 years. I second that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soumyasch Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Giving the user a choice doesn't mean include the browser with the OS, pretty sure the EU would be fine with something similar to how the search is done, in other words, bundle IE and on first run it asks the user if they want to try another browser which then links them to a page with the browsers listed with links to the home pages. This means MS don't have to deal with the browsers and the list can be changed without having to make new media for windows. Why just the browser? Why wouldn't the user be asked when he wants to listen to music if he would like to do so in VLC/FooBar/WinAmp/whatever? Why not asking them to choose between Notepad++ and other such apps? Why force Paint when the user wants to edit a bitmap, when the user could be presented with a choice between GIMP/Paint.NET/Picasa and what not? Why wouldn't the user be asked if he would like to play Crysis when he opens the games explorer? Heck, why wouldn't he be asked if he would want to install Linux when he boots up with the Windows installation disc? Sure they won't be included on the disc, but rather downloaded of the Internet and installed. The end result would be the same, anyways. Rephrasing without the sarcasm, what is so special about browsers that the alternatives have to be treated differently than alternatives to other in-built apps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hammond Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Giving the user a choice doesn't mean include the browser with the OS, pretty sure the EU would be fine with something similar to how the search is done, in other words, bundle IE and on first run it asks the user if they want to try another browser which then links them to a page with the browsers listed with links to the home pages. This means MS don't have to deal with the browsers and the list can be changed without having to make new media for windows. I can see what you are getting at but why should they have to give the other browsers free advertising with millions of computers all installing Vista/7 some companies would pay a small fortune to have that kind of advertising opportunity. Windows is Microsofts OS if the EU force them to stop forcing IE on people they should be well within their right to not have IE8 anywhere on a new install, the EU cant have it both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PL_ Veteran Posted June 13, 2009 Veteran Share Posted June 13, 2009 Also, the reason a "ballot screen" would be a bad option is because a large majority of Windows users are average, non tech-savvy, Joes. Many people don't even know what a Browser is. They use it every day, but try introducing them to a new browser or asking them to choose between browsers... Have fun. I know, I've been there. If you want to start talking about the average Joe, then remember that "average Joe" doesn't install Windows, and instead has it pre-installed, so he'd never see that screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imran Hussain Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 What? Does Opera even render more than 50% of the Internet correctly? It's the worst FAIL browser I've seen. I'd never use that piece of crap, specially after their loser-ish attitude against Microsoft. And I totally feel sad for those who use Opera, when they have better choices like Firefox/Chrome or even IE because at least it loads all websites fine!! P.S. Firefox gaining a huge market share despite Microsoft's IE being 'bundled' with Microsoft Windows says A LOT of how much Opera and their browser sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Rephrasing without the sarcasm, what is so special about browsers that the alternatives have to be treated differently than alternatives to other in-built apps? Ask the EU not me :p They have already done it with WMP, but for things like Paint / Notepad they aren't as obvious as IE is in the OS (no desktop shortcut/quick launch etc) and they are very basic in what they can do. How often does the average user use things like notepad / paint? I can see what you are getting at but why should they have to give the other browsers free advertising with millions of computers all installing Vista/7 some companies would pay a small fortune to have that kind of advertising opportunity.Windows is Microsofts OS if the EU force them to stop forcing IE on people they should be well within their right to not have IE8 anywhere on a new install, the EU cant have it both ways. MS have the right to remove IE but it is a stupid idea whichever way you look at it. There are other options as well, for example have the setup ask if the "user" wants to install IE/WMP like any other installer does. That way OEMs can set it to be installed and anyone installing the OS themselves has the option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salgoth Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 The OS is Microsofts...its there product. Why shouldn't they include there browser? It is after all, there product.Dont like it? Use a different OS. Same goes for every other product in the world, you buy shoes dont you? You will most likely use the same shoe laces that the shoes came with...if you choose not to, you can buy different shoe laces. Sorry pal, its called abuse of a monopoly. Windows has the monopoly and no one can dispute that. As a result they are prohibited from using their monopoly power to create an unfair competitive situation. Sad to say but they are going to have the same problem with their new anti-virus if they try bundling it with Windows too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Candyman Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 What? Does Opera even render more than 50% of the Internet correctly? It's the worst FAIL browser I've seen. I'd never use that piece of crap, specially after their loser-ish attitude against Microsoft.And I totally feel sad for those who use Opera, when they have better choices like Firefox/Chrome or even IE because at least it loads all websites fine!! P.S. Firefox gaining a huge market share despite Microsoft's IE being 'bundled' with Microsoft Windows says A LOT of how much Opera and their browser sucks. I switched from Firefox to Opera because firefox sucked so much. I had constant memory leaks on multiple machines, and I didn't have any extensions, just the core browser. Opera WORKS. There is 1 website I go to that doesn't work properly in Opera, and I'm fine with that. Don't even get me started on how many websites I've gone to that Chrome wouldn't render properly...that might have changed, but it was a POS when I used it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surrealvortex Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 On the one hand, it is not fair on Microsoft's part to be forced to advertise their competitors' browsers. On the other hand, alternate browsers are just not given a choice. The main reason why Firefox has gotten a huge market share is because it comes bundled with most flavors of Linux. In my opinion, there is no right solution to this problem that will be fair to all the parties involved. However, I am definitely not going to stop using Opera just because they have filed a case that looks after their own interests. That is their prerogative and I am not going to hold a grudge against them for that. They have an excellent browser that suits my needs. That is all I am going to bother about. As far as standards compatibility is concerned, it is very rare that I find a site that refuses to work in Opera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hammond Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Sorry pal, its called abuse of a monopoly. Windows has the monopoly and no one can dispute that. As a result they are prohibited from using their monopoly power to create an unfair competitive situation. Sad to say but they are going to have the same problem with their new anti-virus if they try bundling it with Windows too. How is it abuse of monopoly? Its their OS if they released it without any browser, media playback, photo viewer, etc.. etc.. it would be a pretty pathetic product so they include all of these features for convenience, for the joe public who doesnt care that there is a firefox or a winamp, he buys his PC and enjoys all the apps built in just like every other OS out there. Getting sick of people crying monopoly just because Windows is popular, its popular for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewishornet Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 One can only dream that would happen - I have a bottle of champagne waiting for that day. The amount of investments in alternative solutions that would happen that day would be the best thing that has happened to the IT industry in the last 30 years. QFT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Descartes Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I think the rendering issues might be directly connected to their tiny market share... remember the times, where hardly anyone would optimize their code to be Firefox compliant, just because the website wouldn't work in IE 6 (which basically had the entire market share at the moment)? The same way noone takes the effort to make their page work for IE, Firefox AND Opera at the time, because it's just too much of a hassle, to make a website work for a browser that hardly anyone uses. (though it's entirely possible, with relatively huge Opera market share around 10% in Poland, I'm partially forced to do that) Anyway I've been using Opera since 6 or 7 (yes, it still had the huge ass banner on top), because I find it much snappier than IE or Firefox (especially with addons)... Might be a matter of autosuggestion, though. I also like the way I have every single area of my browser customizable with buttons, and Opera Link made me stop caring about backing up favourites (I always forget to do that ^_^; ) Chrome was, till recently, out of question for the lack of support for addons and my browsing habits that I wasn't willing to change, but the latest release might be indeed interesting. I'm also willing to try out Fx 3.5, when it reaches gold (just too many addons of choice is incompatible with that version atm) Shame on the company for their practices, but now when I look at it, if not them, then someone else (Google, Sun?) would do that sooner or later anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ci7 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 down with Opera hoooooooooooooooo ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillz Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 It's Microsoft's operating system, so they can bundle any web browser they see fit. How about Opera quits complaining and develops its own operating system? Then it can make its browser the default choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ienhz Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 QFT Surprise surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trieste Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Boycott Opera! The odds are that you invested some money into Microsoft stocks. Use browsers for their technical ability and customisability, not because you have some pet peeve against the respective companies. The odds also are that someone will accuse me of being an Opera fanboy. Nope, I hate Opera fanboys as much as anybody else. It's Firefox 3.5b99, Chrome 3b and IE 8 for me, in different scenarios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vieira Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Now we should choose our web browsers basing on political questions rather than features? Just use what you want to use and let Opera and Microsoft deal with their problems. It's their problem not ours. Life is already complicated as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x-byte Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Wow at all the trolls. You really are clueless and ignorant. As the few sane people in the thread have mentioned this suit is not only by Opera. Also Mozilla and Google. Also Opera do not agree with MS's removal of IE: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10262913...ag=2547-1_3-0-5 In an interview, Opera Chief Technology Officer Hakon Wium Lie said that with regulators threatening action, Microsoft was under pressure to do something, but said that its choice wasn't what Opera was looking for. Lie told CNET that Opera wants people to have access to more browsers, not fewer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan R. Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 and the counter argument would me microsoft themselves. Opera is just doing what microsoft has done a hundred times before. Poetic justice No no, Microsoft buys their way to more market share, ie. the Yahoo! buyout. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miuku. Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 As the few sane people in the thread have mentioned this suit is not only by Opera. Also Mozilla and Google. Posted it in every thread so far but no one either reads or cares - they're only interested in shouting at Opera for filing this years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtrabit racing Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Lets write a common e-mail and send to Opera... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argote Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Despite what they have done, I use their browser because it is good, not because I agree with what they do. I agree with this. And I don't think Safari for Windows has a higher market share than Opera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backdrifter Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 God it's not like your own millons of dollars are at stake, use whatever browser you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan R. Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Wow at all the trolls. You really are clueless and ignorant. As the few sane people in the thread have mentioned this suit is not only by Opera. Also Mozilla and Google. Also Opera do not agree with MS's removal of IE: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10262913...ag=2547-1_3-0-5 Yeah because my comments really make me and others who share my views clueless and ignorant trolls. Look who's acting ignorant. Anyway, I guess you do have a point about Mozilla and Google being on board with Opera. I guess my view is that Opera is the forerunner of this case. Mozilla and Google seem to be along for the ride. If you believe I have some skewed view about this, please enlighten me for you have assumed I'm an ignorant fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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