Trong Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 This is not questioning whether Natal works or not. We've seen it being used on other TV programs. I've looked around and haven't seen anything around about this but my computer systems teacher picked it out in a second when we showed him the video a while ago of Lionhead's demo of Milo. Here is a picture of the demo with Milo making eye contact with the lady. This is problematic. Because the TV is probably not using a 3D screen, Milo should, in fact, be a skewed image of him looking at us also, instead of us seeing the side of his face. Let me demonstrate. This is me looking at Masterchief as if I was the lady in the video. He's looking right at me when I'm standing to the right of the TV. Now since the camera is at another angle, this is what it should be seeing. Mastercheif is still looking right at us. Did any of you guys notice this before? Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boz Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 What? I think you are way too out there :) Milo was not staged or composited. Press played with him in the Microsoft booth but it was not nearly as effective as the video. They say he couldn't properly recognize voice and stuff but was still pretty cool. You can look in Microsoft thread (I've played with Milo thread). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Veteran Posted June 19, 2009 Veteran Share Posted June 19, 2009 I believe Natal is should be able to tell where you're standing as well, so in theory it could be simply placing an invisible "player" object in 3D space where it picks up the user and then orienting Milo on it, but I don't personally believe the Milo demo was real. It appeared scripted to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad. Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Wasn't one of the features of the Natal technology that the item on screen can tell where you are and will adjust accordingly? We saw it in the advert for it too, when the kid walks into the lounge and the man on screen turns his head to follow the kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minifig Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 You're delusional. Just because she's looking directly at the TV or it's eyes, doesn't mean it's faked. Natal tracks the head's movement, and she just oriented her head so that she's looking at Milo's eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coresx Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Molyneux already said it was set up to work better than it actually does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Veteran Posted June 19, 2009 Veteran Share Posted June 19, 2009 I wouldn't say it's delusional. If Natal did not have the ability to place the player in the extended scene the OP would have a quite valid point. My reasons for feeling it was fake were gut instinct. If it worked well enough for that demo the way it appeared to it would be coming out next month, not next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minifig Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 My reasons for feeling it was fake were gut instinct. If it worked well enough for that demo the way it appeared to it would be coming out next month, not next year. That's not true at all. Tech demos are just that. Tech demos. Games and development takes time. I'm going to go ahead and assume that Lionhead's been working with it a lot longer than they let on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trong Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 You're delusional.Just because she's looking directly at the TV or it's eyes, doesn't mean it's faked. Natal tracks the head's movement, and she just oriented her head so that she's looking at Milo's eyes. Look, I'm not saying Natal is not capable of doing this. Just the legitimacy of the presentation. I don't think you're getting this quite. If Milo were looking at the lady, we would not be able to see his cheeks/the side of his face the way it's presented in the video. The screen is 2D meaning that we would see the same image from every angle. Not 3D. Imagine you have a picture of one of your friends up on your monitor(frontal shot). No matter how hard you tried to move to the right, you could not see their right cheek because it is a 2D image. Actually, you don't even have to imagine this, try it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sethos Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 The press played with Natal after the conference and they confirmed it was actually working, so ... lawl. As for the video played at the conference possible being faked, who gives a toss if it's actually working as showed? Go count some stamps instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minifig Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Unless the TV is at an angle as well. The natal is perceiving her as straight on because it's projected at her "straight on", and the tv is angled so we can see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trong Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 Unless the TV is at an angle as well. The natal is perceiving her as straight on because it's projected at her "straight on", and the tv is angled so we can see it. But that's the thing, I showed you in my 2 pictures, that although the TV is at an angle, without changing the image, the character is still looking right at me. In case no one noticed, the two pictures that I took are of the same exact moment but at different angles. Not different angles in-game, but me physically standing at different points in my room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad. Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I do see what you mean though, the woman in the image should see exactly what we see, which would be milo looking away from her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boz Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I don't know why there's even any more discussion about this. THE PRESS played with Milo..so it's REAL. The software is still not perfect which everyone who played with Milo said. He could recognize you, he even complimented you on the shirt and recognized the colors but had trouble recognizing words when press was talking to them so Milo lost interest pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Routerbad Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 She is standing to the right side of the display. She is not straight on, so he is looking to his left. She would see the same thing we see. If she were standing to the right, she wouldn't see his left cheek either, because it is a 2d display. Just like in the other video (which I know was acted out) when the kid is moving from side to side, the head is turning, so he wouldn't be able to see the character's full face if he was at an angle to the tv because it's still 2d. To see the face straight on, the person would have to be standing at the center point of the display. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perochan Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 i heard the whole thing in E3 was staged and was a video. the real thing isnt even out yet. (cant find the source) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad. Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 i heard the whole thing in E3 was staged and was a video. the real thing isnt even out yet. (cant find the source) 1) it was a demonstration of what's to come 2) of course it's not out yet :s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perochan Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 1) it was a demonstration of what's to come2) of course it's not out yet :s i mean as least they should be using prototype in E3 but didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sethos Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 i mean as least they should be using prototype in E3 but didn't. Hmmm, so what was the press playing with after the conference :blink: OHHH that must be the prototype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Fulcrum Subscriber¹ Posted June 19, 2009 Subscriber¹ Share Posted June 19, 2009 I thought the kid was staring at her A-cups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyLock Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Of course it's staged, just like the Apple conferences. Sure they make it look like its live and give it the appearance there's a live audience there but it's all recorded the nice before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeChipshop Member Posted June 19, 2009 Member Share Posted June 19, 2009 I thought the kid was staring at her A-cups. Myself and him both :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) This is not questioning whether Natal works or not. We've seen it being used on other TV programs. I've looked around and haven't seen anything around about this but my computer systems teacher picked it out in a second when we showed him the video a while ago of Lionhead's demo of Milo.Here is a picture of the demo with Milo making eye contact with the lady. This is problematic. Because the TV is probably not using a 3D screen, Milo should, in fact, be a skewed image of him looking at us also, instead of us seeing the side of his face. Let me demonstrate. This is me looking at Masterchief as if I was the lady in the video. He's looking right at me when I'm standing to the right of the TV. Now since the camera is at another angle, this is what it should be seeing. Mastercheif is still looking right at us. Did any of you guys notice this before? Discuss. You're ignoring the fact that she's not standing right in front of the screen, if she was what you said would be true, however, she's standing almost to the side of the screen(to provide the camera a view of the screen) and since natal track positon Milo looks to the left to look at her. wich is why he is looking to the side and not straight ahead. Also you have to differentiate between the guy on sthe screen looking at you perceived like what you see with your halo screenshot, and the guy on the escreen actually looking at you using head tracking to actually create a 3D screen (for the player anyway) without needign an actual 3D screen. like this jury rigged home made demo using a wiimote Edited June 19, 2009 by HawkMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trong Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 You're ignoring the fact that she's not standing right in front of the screen, if she was what you said would be true, however, she's standing almost to the side of the screen(to provide the camera a view of the screen) and since natal track positon Milo looks to the left to look at her. wich is why he is looking to the side and not straight ahead. *facepalm* Some of you are going to have to break your minds to think this through. In my example picture, I too am standing to the side of my TV as you can see by the SAMSUNG text and the angle of the TV frame. I'm standing to the right of the TV, looking towards the screen. On the second picture, it's the same exact image, but all I did was walk a few steps to the left. For anyone else, how clear am I going to have to be that I'm not doubting the Natal's capabilities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 *facepalm* Some of you are going to have to break your minds to think this through. In my example picture, I too am standing to the side of my TV as you can see by the SAMSUNG text and the angle of the TV frame. I'm standing to the right of the TV, looking towards the screen. On the second picture, it's the same exact image, but all I did was walk a few steps to the left.For anyone else, how clear am I going to have to be that I'm not doubting the Natal's capabilities? As I said in the edit, difference between perceived and actually looking at you. by tracking your head, the screen actually creates 3D depth without needing to be an actual screen, and it then looks at you without the artificial looking straight at you in a deformed way you get in your example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts