Acezo Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 (edited) I seriously can not here the part where neo says "I Understand" when hes at the sentials all i hear him say is, "Wait, I can feel them." Me neither :blink: Anyway, I don't think that Neo chose the left door only to save Trinity. When Neo asks about Zion being destroyed (and not repopulated if he picks the left door) and destroying the Matrix (which then machines would no longer have a power source), the Architect says that they have other means of energy. It sounded to me that Neo didn't believe this, so he picks the left door not only to save Trinity, but in a hope to save Zion and destroy the Matrix without having to "reload" it. The Architect did look eager for Neo to pick the right door and re-populate Zion and reload the Matrix, and I guess that's what the other Neos had done before him (they didn't have as much hope, so they chose to save Zion the easy way). But does it ever say that the other "Ones" were Neo's? They could be totally different people... And if Bane had been the one that set off the EMP (I think that's what killed the people in the Emergency Control Room, in which they would've stopped the power from returning to the city blocks), Trinity wouldn't have to risk her life or even enter the Matrix at all. What if in the past Matrices, Agent Smith hadn't infected Bane at all. This would eventually lead up to Neo meeting with the Architect, but what would the left door lead to? Trinity wouldn't be there... Edited May 18, 2003 by ViciousX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnaudt Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 tronmaster - again some great theories :) Neo becoming more machine and Smith becoming more human is possible ... again this could be something to do with the interesting similarities between Neo and Smith. And btw, about the person they are leading away when Neo, Morpheus and Trinity come in, I believe it's a man ... no idea who, though. Also, having watching this yet again (!) I noted a few more interesting things: Firstly, it is said that Morpheus and Niobe broke up after Morpheus went to the Oracle, and like Trinity said "everything changed after that." I am really curious about what Morpheus was told and hopefully we will be told in Revolutions. Also, I am pretty interested who the kid that Neo and Trinity see right after they land into Zion is ... he said that Neo saved his life, and yet Neo said that he saved himself. I'd love perhaps an Animatrix episode to explain that? Also, yet again I love the Oracle scene, and I noted that when Neo says "you say I will choose whether Trinity dies or not" the Oracle replies "no, you have already made that choice ... now you are here to understand why." The parallel with the Architect is uncanny, and I really find that whole Oracle/Architect thing very interesting! Did you notice that the Merovingian keeps referring to having survived Neo's "predecessors" ... I think that's interesting - especially as the Oracle says that the Merovingian was a "dangerous program" written by the machines. Just food for thought, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnaudt Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 Anyway, I don't think that Neo chose the left door only to save Trinity. When Neo asks about Zion being destroyed (and not repopulated if he picks the left door) and destroying the Matrix (which then machines would no longer have a power source), the Architect says that they have other means of energy. It sounded to me that Neo didn't believe this, so he picks the left door not only to save Trinity, but in a hope to save Zion and destroy the Matrix without having to "reload" it. Well ... yes and no - we know that the other Neo's chose the right door, and they did that because they hadn't experienced love and so perhaps it is true that if Neo didn't know love he wouldn't have chosen the left door ... interesting thing to debate. But does it ever say that the other "Ones" were Neo's? They could be totally different people... Well - the TVs I think are meant to represent some of the responses the "other" Neos gave ... so it seems so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bant Veteran Posted May 18, 2003 Veteran Share Posted May 18, 2003 he does say he understands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tronmaster Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 I love the meeting with the Architect. All of the tv's are Neo's different thought processes but the one he says outloud is his final choice. So basically he is deciding what to say or what he could have said instead or what emotion to show... Interesting notes: 1. All of the "Neo's" choose to say bulls*** 2. All of the "Neo's" choose to save Trinity! I love this movie!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bant Veteran Posted May 18, 2003 Veteran Share Posted May 18, 2003 the matrix is the architects creation, he wants to do anything he can to preserve it. wouldnt it seem in his best interests to try to trick neo into going back into the matrix instead of going and saving 23 people to help rebuild zion? thus ending the rebellion? i would think the architect would do whatever he could to make neo choose the door back to trinity, i think the TV's were just to enhance the moment, confuse neo, but mostly... for visual effect. =p there were over a hundred tv's in that room, displaying all sorts of reactions from different neo's... but there were only 5 before him. the neo's in the TV's are not the previous neo's... but as the above post suggested, perhaps they are his thought processes.... although... im not certain why the matrix could read his thought processes... if they could.... couldnt they far more easily defeat him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acezo Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 the matrix is the architects creation, he wants to do anything he can to preserve it. wouldnt it seem in his best interests to try to trick neo into going back into the matrix instead of going and saving 23 people to help rebuild zion? thus ending the rebellion? I would think he wanted Neo to reload the Matrix, since the Architect states that Neo is a flaw to gather information (to enhance the next verison of the Matrix). Either way, it seems that the Architect wins... :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhomboid Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 Anyone every notice after watching Reloaded, the Architects tv's are the same one's shown in the first movie when Neo is first shown in the Agent's interragation room. Think the Architect was watching then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qumahlin Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 Yes, Matrix is a shallow movie, that also explains those philosophy books based on the Matrix that I can buy, huh? LOL philosophy books based on the Matrix....that is called a "marketing tactic" the movie itself reeks of varying ideas taken from philosophy etc, hell thats why they made Keanu read books like Simulation and Simulacra, so he could understand what ideas they were using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopper Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 allright, neo CANNOT be a machine becuase.... he was exposed to the emp charge in the first movie and it didnt affect him. if he were a machine he would have stopped working after being hit with the emp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicoCahill Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 Couldn't it be that when he killed agent smith in the first one some connection was made between him and all of the machines outside of the matrix just like a agent smith was changed where he has a connection with the humans in the matrix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diata Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 how did agent smith become free, just because he died? and if he's no longer an agent, why does he still feel the need to eliminate neo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnaudt Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 I just had a thought - in the end, we see Neo in a coma but in front of him is the guy who Smith copied himself onto in a coma ... this is IT! There is a connection between Smith and Neo, and when Neo went into a coma, so did Smith - this is WHY he could feel the sentinels ... it's starting to make sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeSoul Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Anyone every notice after watching Reloaded, the Architects tv's are the same one's shown in the first movie when Neo is first shown in the Agent's interragation room. Think the Architect was watching then? if you watch the first matrix again and just before they show the complete interrogation room wtih neo and the agents, you see the camera closing in to neo then just like in the last scene when camera came closer to neo you could see the tv colours and line then fade in to neo, the same way the camera zoomed in to neo in the interogation in the first matrix movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bant Veteran Posted May 19, 2003 Veteran Share Posted May 19, 2003 I just had a thought - in the end, we see Neo in a coma but in front of him is the guy who Smith copied himself onto in a coma ... this is IT! There is a connection between Smith and Neo, and when Neo went into a coma, so did Smith - this is WHY he could feel the sentinels ... it's starting to make sense! for any of that to make sense we have to assume that when smith copied himself over to that guy, he actually copied himself over in RL too... and that simply isnt the case, the guy is clearly just derranged and crazy in RL, and likely was knocked out during that huge battle that he royally screwed up for the zion defenders. why would neo have an effect like that on that guy? and did the guy go into a coma exactly when neo did? dont you think that the crew of niobes ship would be just a little wierded out by a guy randomly going into a coma as they approached the remains of the neb, and neo lying on the ground? and still, even if there were a connection between neo and smith, how does that point to a connection between neo and the sentinels? smith surely isnt connected to them, he isnt even an agent anymore, and even if he were, does the matrix tie in directly to sentinel control, or is there a sentinel control center (i would imagine?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoGro123 Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 quick addition (just a little interesting tid bit). The girl who hate the orgasm cake was named Le Vrai, the Miovagian loved french, in french Le Vrai means the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diata Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 for any of that to make sense we have to assume that when smith copied himself over to that guy, he actually copied himself over in RL too... and that simply isnt the case, the guy is clearly just derranged and crazy in RL, and likely was knocked out during that huge battle that he royally screwed up for the zion defenders.why would neo have an effect like that on that guy? and did the guy go into a coma exactly when neo did? dont you think that the crew of niobes ship would be just a little wierded out by a guy randomly going into a coma as they approached the remains of the neb, and neo lying on the ground? and still, even if there were a connection between neo and smith, how does that point to a connection between neo and the sentinels? smith surely isnt connected to them, he isnt even an agent anymore, and even if he were, does the matrix tie in directly to sentinel control, or is there a sentinel control center (i would imagine?) i figured it made more sense to say smith copied himself into that guy and thats why the guy wants to kill neo, not because he is just derranged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bant Veteran Posted May 19, 2003 Veteran Share Posted May 19, 2003 he is the way he is because smith copied himself into him IN the matrix. the effect it had on him in RL was that it made him think he was smith, to some degree. but he is not smith, his brain is just basically programmed to kill neo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xp1ode Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 how did agent smith become free, just because he died? and if he's no longer an agent, why does he still feel the need to eliminate neo i was thinkin the same thing, but maybe smith did die/get deleted, maybe he just got upgraded after Neo got into him in the first matrix. they mention in the movie that programs either get deleted and become old and get opgraded by better programs, more suitable for the circumstance. neo also says "hmm, upgrades" when he fights the three agents at the begining, maybe thats what happened to smith, but then this wouldnt be possible because smith is free so as the upgrade idea goes i dont think is possible, so im still alil confused on that myself. and as for the killing Neo thing, his only a program so maybe no matter what his code is still the same, to kill/destroy neo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diata Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 what would a reason be for smith not being an agent anymore though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bant Veteran Posted May 19, 2003 Veteran Share Posted May 19, 2003 smith said he wasnt an agent anymore. and i think early on in the movie he showed neo (and us) that he didnt have an earpiece (wasnt connected to the agent system...i guess you could say). why he isnt one? because he failed. he was programmed to control neo(and the rest of the matrix), and to kill neo. when neo killed him, the matrix probably decided smith's program was not needed, because it couldnt get the job done. the basis of these movies is that these machines can think... their AI is so good that they are more efficient beings than humans. Smith isnt going after neo just because he was programmed to... it is out of spite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxicfume Veteran Posted May 19, 2003 Veteran Share Posted May 19, 2003 another petty interesting point i noted, in the shell prompt screen where trinity applies the exploit, the password she types is 'Z10N0101'. Quite obvious what Z10N is, and since I am taking a Digital Electronics course atm, 0101 is the binary for the decimal "5" so maybe it could have something to do with the previous 5 matrices? lol, I just had to post this since everyone's into the smallest of details. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mirumir Subscriber¹ Posted May 19, 2003 Subscriber¹ Share Posted May 19, 2003 Smith is just a program. Like any other program he has only one purpose. In this case - to destroy Zion by finding a key to Zion's mainframe (from a captain of a ship) and to eliminate anyone who stands on his way (Neo). It doesn't matter whether Smith is free or not, he still does what he is programmed to do. Its just that after Neo kicked his ass in the first movie, Smith took it too personally, too close to heart. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homie Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 And to a degree Neo does....since the Architect said Neo couldn't save Trinity (but he did). um.. Im pretty sure he said that she is going to die no matter what he does.. not that he couldint save her and she did "die". Just how Neo died to become The One. He wasnt wrong, just how the Oracle wasnt wrong that neo wasnt the one.. in that life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altezza Veteran Posted May 19, 2003 Veteran Share Posted May 19, 2003 So how can Smith can appear everywhere and knowing where Neo going? Including the playground where Neo had conversation with Oracle? And so the "hidden floor with many doors" place Smith also appeared there? Is that to do with the early scene where the two good guys trying to escape by answering the phone and Smith infected one of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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