C&C4 is


Recommended Posts

I'm posting on Neowin and I have 24/7 internet at home and my PC is on more often than not. However, like the article says, I particularly enjoy playing RTS games on my laptop when I travel, where I don't have internet 24/7.

It's unfortunate but if developers want to start getting a return on PC games they need sensible methods of DRM and the bulk of the audience for a game like C&C will be playing it on their home PCs as it'll no doubt be quite demanding. Laptops are primarily used for work/internet, there's never been a mass market for gaming with bleeding edge games on a laptop. Most gamers blow so much on there home PCs they don't have money to go buying the really top end laptops needed to game properly on the go.

When you play games on your 360/PS3 you're pretty much online all the time, developers will probably need to start treating the PC more as a single entity like a console, instead of considering laptops as well. PSN games that support remote play for example need an internet connection if you want to play them in an airport on your PSP.

Anyway it's not as if you absolutely can't game on the laptop, you just need an internet connection.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1+

Couldn't agree more :)

+1

I still like C&C - but the ones made by WestWood were like wow - I couldn't stop playing it. I dunno sometimes I feel PC games back then were better especially RTS - I didnt get bored with them like I do now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

An always-on Internet connection? Come on, give us a break. What will we do when our Internet connections go out? Or if we want to play on a laptop with no Internet access? I was all excited for a "PC-only" Command & Conquer game but this is just not cool. Oh well, I consider myself lucky for having an always-on Internet connection at home.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

An always-on Internet connection? Come on, give us a break. What will we do when our Internet connections go out? Or if we want to play on a laptop with no Internet access? I was all excited for a "PC-only" Command & Conquer game but this is just not cool. Oh well, I consider myself lucky for having an always-on Internet connection at home.

Tell me how often your internet connection goes out, tell me how often you game on a laptop, then tell me how often you're gaming on a laptop where you have absolutely no access to internet?

It's just sending minor data packets in SP, you won't need a fast speed, so your University internet connection would be fine if you can't wait to get home to play C&C4 and need to play it in Uni.

Those are the things EA will have thought about and weighed it up against how many people they'll now frustrate into buying the game if the always online method screws up pirates. I seen many people around the web splashing out for Arma2 and Anno 1404 keys after both of those games took a few weeks to be successfully cracked. Pirates are an impatient bunch, munch of the war against them is won if you can keep them at bay long enough (as long as your game is highly anticipated and scoring well in the first place).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tell me how often your internet connection goes out, tell me how often you game on a laptop, then tell me how often you're gaming on a laptop where you have absolutely no access to internet?

It's just sending minor data packets in SP, you won't need a fast speed, so your University internet connection would be fine if you can't wait to get home to play C&C4 and need to play it in Uni.

Those are the things EA will have thought about and weighed it up against how many people they'll now frustrate into buying the game if the always online method screws up pirates. I seen many people around the web splashing out for Arma2 and Anno 1404 keys after both of those games took a few weeks to be successfully cracked. Pirates are an impatient bunch, munch of the war against them is won if you can keep them at bay long enough (as long as your game is highly anticipated and scoring well in the first place).

Not too often, but it would be a minor inconvenience if I wanted to play some C&C4. I do a fair bit of gaming on my laptop because I'm away from home for most of the day. Half the time, I don't have access to the Internet. In that case, it would be a major inconvenience. I was hoping to play it "on the go" but I guess I'll have to play a different game that doesn't require an always-on Internet connection. I understand that in the grand scheme of things, it won't be an inconvenience to many users. I guess I'm just a little on edge from what I've been reading today with regard to PC gaming.

/sigh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not too often, but it would be a minor inconvenience if I wanted to play some C&C4. I do a fair bit of gaming on my laptop because I'm away from home for most of the day. Half the time, I don't have access to the Internet. In that case, it would be a major inconvenience. I was hoping to play it "on the go" but I guess I'll have to play a different game that doesn't require an always-on Internet connection.

Your complaints are far from unfounded, but the PC gaming realm is going to cannibalize itself unless developers can somehow become smarter to the way the world has evolved. You cannot deny the amount of sales they'd lose to a SP focussed game (I know C&C always has MP, but it's SP is a draw) that just needs an exe file copy/pasted into a directory. Not millions of sales, but tens of thousands at least, that's a fair dent, especially if they're going PC exclusive (console games are guaranteed revenue generators due to no piracy/risks with piracy).

You can't ask developers to lower prices, PC games are already substantially cheaper than console games. Developers have been trying with DRM methods for quite some time now, and never really get positive feedback for it. People don't want DRM, don't care about the business end, but then demand companies to pour money into PC gaming development at the same time?

Turning every game into an "MMO" might be the way it goes for some devs to balance protecting themselves and frustrating as little PC gamers as possible. It's a balancing act, they'll never ever ever make all PC gamers happy due to the environment PC gaming currently sits in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think I have ever out of the house with my laptop, no internet connection, and suddenly thought to myself, "dude, I want to play a video game right now."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your complaints are far from unfounded, but the PC gaming realm is going to cannibalize itself unless developers can somehow become smarter to the way the world has evolved. You cannot deny the amount of sales they'd lose to a SP focussed game (I know C&C always has MP, but it's SP is a draw) that just needs an exe file copy/pasted into a directory. Not millions of sales, but tens of thousands at least, that's a fair dent.

You can't ask developers to lower prices, PC games are already substantially cheaper than console games. Developers have been trying with DRM methods for quite soem time now, and never really get positive feedback for it.

Turning every game into an "MMO" might be the way it goes for some devs to balance protecting themselves and frustrating as little PC gamers as possible. It's a balancing act, they'll never ever ever make all PC gamers happy due to the environment PC gaming currently sits in.

True that. I hope that one day someone will invent some kind of "unbreakable" anti-piracy technology that will force pirates to buy PC games. :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They should do things like they did in the old days...

Make a good game people want to spend their hard earned on.

Are you trying to say good games don't get pirated? :blink:

Good games will sell better than bad, but the impact of piracy still hits their potential....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

since C&C4 requires players to be online all the time in order to prevent cheating, we'll be shipping without any form of DRM."

ROFL :D

So basically they're saying "Since you have leg shackles, we'll skip any form of handcuffs." There are tons of really funny analogies to be made here.

Once the servers are taken offline, and it will eventually happen, you won't be able to play the game anymore. You don't buy the game, you rent it.

This will be cracked anyway, so why inconvenience paying customers? I fail to see why single player achievements should count towards your online record.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ROFL :D

"Since the door requires users to have a wireless key on them all the time, we'll be shipping without any form of hardware key." There are tons of really funny analogies to be made here!

Once the servers are taken offline, and they will, you won't be able to play the game anymore. You don't buy the game, you rent it.

This will be cracked anyway, so why inconvenience paying customers? I fail to see why single player achievements should count towards your online record.

That's a load of BS.

You're suggesting they can't patch an old game in the future to remove the restriction, what nonsense.

Games right now get patched months after release to remove DRM (The Witcher as of recent). Some developers follow the idea of they'll DRM a game for the first 6 months to try and coax as many pirates into buying as possible, then when sales have generally died completely, remove the DRM.

The battle against piracy is all about time, it's near impossible to stop it completely. As I said earlier pirates are impatient, tell someone they will need to wait months to play a game they're highly anticipating then chances are they might break (especially if their friends buy).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's a load of BS.

If you are referring to EA saying "we've built in online DRM, but there's no DRM whatsoever!", then you would be correct.

You're suggesting they can't patch an old game in the future to remove the restriction, what nonsense.

Games right now get patched months after release to remove DRM (The Witcher as of recent). Some developers follow the idea of they'll DRM a game for the first 6 months to try and coax as many pirates into buying as possible, then when sales have generally died completely, remove the DRM.

The battle against piracy is all about time, it's near impossible to stop it completely. As I said earlier pirates are impatient, tell someone they will need to wait months to play a game they're highly anticipating then chances are they might break (especially if their friends buy).

Sure, EA will do that. Like they did for Spore? They never removed the draconian DRM; they only released a "de-authorization" tool. All it does is phone home to the "online Product Authorization". The game still phones home.

How many years are we going to have to wait for Spore to be stripped of its DRM? 3? 5? Even more?

I wouldn't hold my breath for a C&C4 patch removing DRM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you are refering to EA saying "we've built in online DRM, but there's no DRM whatsoever!", you would be correct.

Sure, EA will do that. Like they did for Spore? They never removed the draconian DRM; they only released a "de-authorization" tool. All it does is phone home to the "online Product Authorization". http://www.spore.com/patch/deauthorization The game still phones home.

How many years are we going to have to wait for Spore to be stripped of its DRM? 3? 5? Even more?

I wouldn't hold my breath for a C&C4 patch removing DRM.

Your initial argument was about not being able to play in the future, that is all I was challenging, not Spore/other methods of DRM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your initial argument was about not being able to play in the future, that is all I was challenging, not Spore/other methods of DRM.

How is it different exactly? Spore requires online authentication to be installed. When the servers will be down, you won't be able to install it. AFAIK EA made no announcement stating that they will release a DRM-removing patch for Spore at a later point in time. There's no reason to expect better treatment for C&C4.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How is it different exactly? Spore requires online authentication to be installed. When the servers will be down, you won't be able to install it. AFAIK EA made no announcement stating that they will release a DRM-removing patch for Spore at a later point in time. There's no reason to expect better treatment for C&C4.

You're making wild assumptions based upon nothing. If servers are genuinely needing to be taken offline in 10 years, there will most likely be some support for the games in the form of DRM removers/custom installers/emulators/etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're making wild assumptions based upon nothing. If servers are genuinely needing to be taken offline in 10 years, there will most likely be some support for the games in the form of DRM removers/custom installers/emulators/etc.

What annoys me is that EA has the gall to state that it isn't DRM, while it is nothing more than a draconian form of DRM in sheep's clothing ("but we need it for the player progression!"). The need to be constantly online when playing single-player is a first.

To summarize:

- It inconveniences paying customers; you won't be able to play offline, or if their servers have issues. If they can't even reliably get legit Spore copies to install properly without "invalid CD key" errors, it's not a "wild assumption" to believe that they'll screw up permanent home phoning even worse

- It will get cracked; since pirates always had to buy the game to get online multiplayer gaming, I fail to see how this additional locking down will help them sell more games

- Single player achievements will get tied to your online profile; who asked for this again?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think I've heard one thing nice about RA3 :/

The women in the mission briefings were awesome, espc. the russian one.

There we go, something nice :p

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What annoys me is that EA has the gall to state that it isn't DRM, while it is nothing more than a draconian form of DRM in sheep's clothing ("but we need it for the player progression!").

To summarize:

- It inconveniences paying customers; you won't be able to play offline, or if their servers have issues. If they can't even get legit Spore installs working properly, it's not a "wild assumption" to believe that they'll screw up permanent home phoning even worse

- EA has the gall to state that it isn't DRM, while it is nothing more than extreme DRM; constant online checking for single-player is a first

- It will get cracked; since pirates always had to buy the game to get online multiplayer gaming, so I don't see how this additional locking down will help them sell more games

- Single player achievements will get tied to your online profile; who asked for this again?

Just be part of the % that don't buy the game then. When EA report C&C4 sales figures we'll see if this venture has been worthwhile.

I think it's one of the most sensible approaches to DRM yet, there are actually features being implemented through you being online 24/7. You don't think it's good, no amount of arguing changes anything, we'll agree to disagree and move on.

My PC is online all the time, I won't notice a thing from playing this. As for why you need an online profile, it's a workaround to having activations, if you have an online profile you can play the game on any PC anywhere, you just need to sign into that profile. Unless you're willing to share your profile with friends, you can't give them a free install of your DVD, then take it home with you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's one of the most sensible approaches to DRM yet, there are actually features being implemented through you being online 24/7. You don't think it's good, no amount of arguing changes anything, we'll agree to disagree and move on.

Whether it is a sensible approach to DRM is indeed debatable; what is undeniable is that it is a form of DRM. And yet EA states "we'll be shipping without any form of DRM," which is incorrect.

Just be part of the % that don't buy the game then. When EA report C&C4 sales figures we'll see if this venture has been worthwhile.

This whole "don't like it, don't buy it" argument is tired. EA relaxed Spore's DRM only because of a huge backlash when they announced the rules. If everyone had been chanting the regular "don't buy it then," Spore would've required online validation every ten days to work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whether it is a sensible approach to DRM is indeed debatable; what is undeniable is that it is a form of DRM. And yet EA states "we'll be shipping without any form of DRM," which is incorrect.

This whole "don't like it, don't buy it" argument is tired. EA relaxed Spore's DRM only because of a huge backlash when they announced the rules. If everyone had been chanting the regular "don't buy it then," Spore would've required online validation every ten days to work.

There's only so far a backlash is validated, Spore was heavily DRM infested, this is not.

This is all about balance and whether you like it or not, this is one of the most lax forms of DRM ever. It's not activations, it's not some piece of software being installed on your PC, etc. It's asking for an internet connection, an internet connection, think about that, you're online right now.

Look at World of Warcraft, it's an MMO with over 10 million players, people are really blowing the "need to be online 24/7" thing out of proportion. All EA are asking is you stay online, you're not going to be playing C&C4 24 hours a day, heck most people not even every day as they don't have time. The probability of your internet connection being up for the amount of hours you'll play a month is pretty much 95%+.

Therefore they're technically justified in saying it comes with no DRM, it doesn't, it comes with a requirement for an internet connection. Would you say WoW has DRM or any other MMO?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Therefore they're technically justified in saying it comes with no DRM, it doesn't, it comes with a requirement for an internet connection. Would you say WoW has DRM or any other MMO?

Apples and oranges. You cannot play a MMO offline, now can you? Does a MMO come with a single-player campaign or single-player skirmishes that you can play offline?

What they're doing here is requiring you to connect when you're playing locally. It's an artificial requirement; it's DRM masquerading as a feature to track "player progression." If it wasn't DRM, and just for anti-cheating as stated in the article, they could've simply disabled all "player progression" tracking if the game can't connect to the Internet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Apples and oranges. You cannot play a MMO offline, now can you? Does a MMO come with a single-player campaign or single-player skirmishes that you can play offline?

What they're doing here is requiring you to connect when you're playing locally. It's DRM masquerading as a feature to track "player progression." If it wasn't DRM, and just for anti-cheating as stated in the article, they could've simply disabled all "player progression" tracking if the game can't connect to the Internet.

My point is 10 million people easily play WoW and it requires an internet connection, yet somehow it's a hassle to play C&C4.

I'm sorry, but in this case I side with EA and go down the route of those whining are most likely upset at their imminent chances of piracy. Nearly everything in our homes nowadays is hooked up to the internet 24/7.

It's clear you don't care that much for the PC gaming industry cannibalizing itself under piracy, if you aren't even able to give some leeway for such an unobtrusive requirement as an internet connection. We aren't talking about some ridiculously casual game like Barbie a kid might try install on their Grans 7 year old PC without internet, this is an RTS, and it's Command and Conquer.

I actually think stat tracking and progression to be quite a good feature in a military based RTS game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nearly everything in our homes nowadays is hooked up to the internet 24/7.

Yay! Let's leverage this to make every bit of paying games & software call home on a permanent basis!

I'm sorry, but in this case I side with EA and go down the route of those whining are most likely upset at their imminent chances of piracy.

Whiners, as you put it, are legit customers annoyed by yet another form of creative and extreme DRM. Pirates will simply download the cracked version, as they did with Spore. I fail to see how this will help EA sell more games.

Now if you don't find this particular form of DRM an inconvenience, more power to you. But you don't have to "side" with EA and use tortuous logic to explain why a spade isn't really a spade.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yay! Let's leverage this to make every bit of paying games & software call home on a permanent basis!

Whiners, as you put it, are legit customers annoyed by yet another form of creative and extreme DRM. Pirates will simply download the cracked version, as they did with Spore.

Now if you don't find this particular form of DRM an inconvenience, more power to you. But you don't have to "side" with EA and use tortuous logic to explain why a spade isn't really a spade.

Having an internet connection is an extreme form of DRM? Sending SP stats to a server is calling home?

Did you know Kellogs fit cameras to the bottom of their cereal packets? Better run downstairs and check your cupboards.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.