Science section needs be to rid of crackpottery


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Time and time again i've seen posts that are way too overspeculative with no factual basis, which i feel does not belong in that section. I'd name names but i'm sure some here can already guess. There are many open questions in science sure, and i like discussion on subjects, provided the discussion remains intellectually sound ( substantiated scientific ideas). A guideline should be put in place (or enforced) on discussions pertaining to new or non-mainstream theories or ideas that have not been published in professional peer-reviewed journals or are not part of current professional mainstream scientific discussion. If one chooses to discuss Star Trek Hyper drive being invented by purple unicorns, then keep it in Area51, not science, imo.

Thank, you for your time in reading this, hopefully this can be understood by staff, with this being a technology site, which itself is based on a scientific method.

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if a mod see it not fit enough to be in the science section then they would move it, if you want to complain don't do it in public and just pm the staff

{this is my personal opinion}

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Time and time again i've seen posts that are way too overspeculative with no factual basis, which i feel does not belong in that section. I'd name names but i'm sure some here can already guess. There are many open questions in science sure, and i like discussion on subjects, provided the discussion remains intellectually sound ( substantiated scientific ideas). A guideline should be put in place (or enforced) on discussions pertaining to new or non-mainstream theories or ideas that have not been published in professional peer-reviewed journals or are not part of current professional mainstream scientific discussion. If one chooses to discuss Star Trek Hyper drive being invented by purple unicorns, then keep it in Area51, not science, imo.

Thank, you for your time in reading this, hopefully this can be understood by staff, with this being a technology site, which itself is based on a scientific method.

You do realize that this is a forum filled with 12 year-olds who voice their "professional" opinions to extend their egos, right?

If you want professional conversation, you are definitely in the wrong place.

You also have to understand that science is "best guess". What is true today might not be tomorrow, and somebody else's crazy idea might actually become accepted some day. It's happened for thousands of years, and will continue that way forever. That's just how it is.

A forum is a place of discussion, so shooting down somebody's theories and calling them out with a complaint like this is just arrogant.

If it bothers you that much, you know where the exit is. Otherwise, just let it go.

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Ripgut states exactly why I don't read the science section that much. It almost always has half of its first page filled with articles that magically turn "correlation" into "causation".

If you want professional conversation, you are definitely in the wrong place.

No, Neowin.net always tries to remain a quality forum with members who contribute and give insight that no other forum can. An example is Neowin.com's frontpage, which is always teeming with well written, good sized summaries or full articles of current events in technology.

You also have to understand that science is "best guess". What is true today might not be tomorrow, and somebody else's crazy idea might actually become accepted some day. It's happened for thousands of years, and will continue that way forever. That's just how it is.

>_< Science isn't best guess... How in the world did you come to that conclusion?

Edited by maskedforever
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You do realize that this is a forum filled with 12 year-olds who voice their "professional" opinions to extend their egos, right?

If you want professional conversation, you are definitely in the wrong place.

You also have to understand that science is "best guess". What is true today might not be tomorrow, and somebody else's crazy idea might actually become accepted some day. It's happened for thousands of years, and will continue that way forever. That's just how it is.

A forum is a place of discussion, so shooting down somebody's theories and calling them out with a complaint like this is just arrogant.

If it bothers you that much, you know where the exit is. Otherwise, just let it go.

Science is not really a best guess. It has to have a basis and actually have a way to fit in to the current provens.

Someone's crazy idea can only be accepted some day IF it is proven to be correct, i.e. it is actually correct, that the chemical eliments or so forth fit together to prove you idea.

Ripgut is a long term member and well respected by a large number of Neowin's member base, so if he says there is a problem, i tend to believe him. Telling him to simply walk away is not really a nice thing to say...

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I agree with rigput. His opinion should be taken seriously as previously stated. He is a well known member, and he is a respected member. He as a lot of knowledge when it comes to science.

Aside from all of that, he is right again.. this is like Area 51 ****** child. I wish I could come here and open every thread and learn something but all you see is this wierd crap most of the time from questionable (at best) web sites.

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Area 51 has 15,000+ posts more than the Science section even though it has 1000 fewer threads that the Science section... This shows how misinformation and sensationalism are more interesting to Neowin members than science articles.

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Science is not really a best guess. It has to have a basis and actually have a way to fit in to the current provens.

Someone's crazy idea can only be accepted some day IF it is proven to be correct, i.e. it is actually correct, that the chemical eliments or so forth fit together to prove you idea.

Ripgut is a long term member and well respected by a large number of Neowin's member base, so if he says there is a problem, i tend to believe him. Telling him to simply walk away is not really a nice thing to say...

In many aspects, science is best guess. What you can't directly test, you can't right away deem as fact. For example, saying the Earth has a molten core leading out in layers. While we have a pretty good idea on the specifics, it's still just a best guess until we actually pull samples.

We're all a bit more precise than in the past, but some of science as we know it today will probably change when/if we explore more beyond our own planet. The gravitational constant on Earth will probably stay as is, but Einstein's theories might have to be revised a bit, etc... You know what I mean. ;)

Also, just because Ripgut is respected, doesn't mean he's automatically right when he complains about something.

As far as I know, he is referring to the Blackhole thread posted by Hum, in which I don't see what the problem is...

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In many aspects, science is best guess. What you can't directly test, you can't right away deem as fact. For example, saying the Earth has a molten core leading out in layers. While we have a pretty good idea on the specifics, it's still just a best guess until we actually pull samples.

We're all a bit more precise than in the past, but some of science as we know it today will probably change when/if we explore more beyond our own planet. The gravitational constant on Earth will probably stay as is, but Einstein's theories might have to be revised a bit, etc... You know what I mean. ;)

Also, just because Ripgut is respected, doesn't mean he's automatically right when he complains about something.

As far as I know, he is referring to the Blackhole thread posted by Hum, in which I don't see what the problem is...

Ok,lets put it another way... There is a section for best guessing and theory, as stated its called Area 51. The science section is for scientific FACT and the area 51 section is for "scientific" theory.

If he had said something complete obsured then i would have agreed with you, but as usual, Ripgut is saying something sensible and true, from what i have seen in that section. Sounds to me like you are a little sore about something with Ripgut maybe? :s

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In many aspects, science is best guess. What you can't directly test, you can't right away deem as fact. For example, saying the Earth has a molten core leading out in layers. While we have a pretty good idea on the specifics, it's still just a best guess until we actually pull samples.

Scientific Method

We're all a bit more precise than in the past, but some of science as we know it today will probably change when/if we explore more beyond our own planet. The gravitational constant on Earth will probably stay as is, but Einstein's theories might have to be revised a bit, etc... You know what I mean. ;)

Read the link i posted

Also, just because Ripgut is respected, doesn't mean he's automatically right when he complains about something.

As far as I know, he is referring to the Blackhole thread posted by Hum, in which I don't see what the problem is...

I could care less if i'm "respected" on here or not, i'm glad i am by some people on this site. My gripe is with posts that belong in Area51, discussions on scientific articles posted in the SS, should have a clear scientific basis, claims should be capable of being scientifically substantiated, hence my purple unicorns reference...

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Sounds to me like you are a little sore about something with Ripgut maybe?

No, I don't judge people... I don't voice myself often (hence my low post count) unless I feel the need to give a different perspective.

Read the link i posted

1. Observation and description of a phenomenon or group of phenomena.

2. Formulation of an hypothesis to explain the phenomena. In physics, the hypothesis often takes the form of a causal mechanism or a mathematical relation.

3. Use of the hypothesis to predict the existence of other phenomena, or to predict quantitatively the results of new observations.

4. Performance of experimental tests of the predictions by several independent experimenters and properly performed experiments.

Hypothesis/prediction = best guess.

"There is always the possibility that a new observation or a new experiment will conflict with a long-standing theory"

What am I supposed to get from this? Isn't that pretty much what I said in my last post?

Instead of fighting with one another and making this thread pointless, why don't you point out exactly what it is that compelled you to post this complaint. What threads in the Science section do you think shouldn't be there? Personally, I stay out of the Area 51 section because I don't buy any of the alien crap that resides there.

"The Moon Does Not Exist!" belongs in the Area 51 section. "NASA finds monster black hole at centre of galaxy" does belong in the Science section. I still fail to see what the problem is. If it's the responses people are posting that irks you, then there's nothing you can do about it. Some of the topics in Science section might go on a slight limb, but they do have a scientific basis. I rather have the tinfoil hat conspiracy threads separated from what's in the Science section now. It's fine as it is.

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No, I don't judge people... I don't voice myself often (hence my low post count) unless I feel the need to give a different perspective.

1. Observation and description of a phenomenon or group of phenomena.

2. Formulation of an hypothesis to explain the phenomena. In physics, the hypothesis often takes the form of a causal mechanism or a mathematical relation.

3. Use of the hypothesis to predict the existence of other phenomena, or to predict quantitatively the results of new observations.

4. Performance of experimental tests of the predictions by several independent experimenters and properly performed experiments.

Hypothesis/prediction = best guess.

"There is always the possibility that a new observation or a new experiment will conflict with a long-standing theory"

What am I supposed to get from this? Isn't that pretty much what I said in my last post?

Instead of fighting with one another and making this thread pointless, why don't you point out exactly what it is that compelled you to post this complaint. What threads in the Science section do you think shouldn't be there? Personally, I stay out of the Area 51 section because I don't buy any of the alien crap that resides there.

"The Moon Does Not Exist!" belongs in the Area 51 section. "NASA finds monster black hole at centre of galaxy" does belong in the Science section. I still fail to see what the problem is. If it's the responses people are posting that irks you, then there's nothing you can do about it. Some of the topics in Science section might go on a slight limb, but they do have a scientific basis. I rather have the tinfoil hat conspiracy threads separated from what's in the Science section now. It's fine as it is.

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1) Hypothesis is still based on evidence, you're proposing that a scientist pulls an answer out of thin air, try again.

2) This was posted in S&FI, only complaining here i see is your posts.

3) I meant to address that it's the posts, not the threads, so sue me ;)

1) A hypothesis is still a guess...

2) If you want to play that game, you complained first. You could call any response complaining if you take it that way.

3) You can't really categorize a thread by it's potential responses. The only way to fight that would be to whip out the banhammer. In such case, I'd totally support it. :p

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Lets all grow up a little eh?

Ripgut has voiced his opinion. This is not a section of the forum really for you all to start arguing about it. Its something for the Mods and admins to consider and decide if they agree or not.

How about we all just take a deep breath and back away from this thread... leaving it up to the mods to deal with.

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Indeed, I literally facepalmed when I saw a comment of "black, white, blue and green holes" having "existed for trillions of years" (emphasis mine), so I whole-heartedly agree with Ripgut.

IMHO it's analogous to this: Somebody posts an article on hardware firewalls and their particular merits and somebody comes along and starts talking crap about cheap antivirus software written by their mate. It's not welcome and it's disruptive.

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Lets all grow up a little eh?

Ripgut has voiced his opinion. This is not a section of the forum really for you all to start arguing about it. Its something for the Mods and admins to consider and decide if they agree or not.

How about we all just take a deep breath and back away from this thread... leaving it up to the mods to deal with.

While the Mods have the final say, I'd think it would be totally welcome for us to get into a heated discussion about this.

If enough people find that it is indeed something that could be fixed, then it helps the Mods decide. If one person makes a random comment about it, it probably won't be taken as seriously.

Nothing has gotten out of line, and nobody is flaming another, so discuss away.

It's the only way to help keep this place #1.

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No problem with a heated discussion as long as there are no personal attacks on our members, flamebaiting or inappropriate language. Please remember that.

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While the Mods have the final say, I'd think it would be totally welcome for us to get into a heated discussion about this.

If enough people find that it is indeed something that could be fixed, then it helps the Mods decide. If one person makes a random comment about it, it probably won't be taken as seriously.

Seems to me that you are one of only a couple of people who feel Ripgut is wrong. The rest of us feel he is right.

Nothing has gotten out of line, and nobody is flaming another, so discuss away.

It's the only way to help keep this place #1.

Oh really... See below

No problem with a heated discussion as long as there are no personal attacks on our members, flamebaiting or inappropriate language. Please remember that.

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