Panacik Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 There is no hypocrisy around here. Posting that Windows 7 has been cracked is tech news. I don't see the staff here allowing people to post links to obtain these cracks, which would be against the rulesAnyway, could someone enlighten me as to what a boot loader actually does? I am familiar with the OEM certificates, but I never came across a boot loader crack Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacik Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 It's a loader that loads a snippet of code before windows boots that mimics an SLIC table for an OEM Bios. So when you load an OEM key with a certificate Windows sees that it's on a valid OEM machine and activates itself. Basically, using a loader is a safer option than using a BIOS mod etc. If the laoder goes wrong.... format and start again, but if the BIOS mod goes wrong, you could be in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistaT40 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 This is the internet police - i received a call of a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unrealistic Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 It's a loader that loads a snippet of code before windows boots that mimics an SLIC table for an OEM Bios. So when you load an OEM key with a certificate Windows sees that it's on a valid OEM machine and activates itself. Which is exactly how Vista was cracked. I'm surprised they didn't try to at least fix this for Windows 7. Good thing I'm on MSDN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacik Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 Which is exactly how Vista was cracked. I'm surprised they didn't try to at least fix this for Windows 7. Good thing I'm on MSDN. The only way i could imagin them getting around this is to have a complete remake of the Activation and genuine advantage checking, however, im not sure how they would do this. I believe the next version of Windows MIGHT change the way activation and validation works. Windows 7 seems and feels like its more of an "incrimental" release, so the next one might have some more major changes than 7 has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris123NT Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Which is exactly how Vista was cracked. I'm surprised they didn't try to at least fix this for Windows 7. Good thing I'm on MSDN. The problem is they can't fix it. The way the system works is each OEM has a unique SLIC table that gets inserted into that machine's bios. Couple that with a valid xrm-ms certificate and the universal key for that OEM, and the machine stays activated. MS can't blacklist the keys because doing so would invalidate every single 7 machine for that particular OEM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unrealistic Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 As long as this doesn't negatively impact their sales. Microsoft needs to post net profits, not net losses. Windows 7 is an incredible OS. I really hope they get the acclaim they desperately need in October. Chris: Their Activation team at one point said they knew how to circumvent this problem and would on the next operating system. Apparently they didn't do it though. I remember reading about it a little over a year ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeza Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 loaders = fail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comic Book Guy Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 loaders = fail Well, that was a very constructive comment, not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmdixon Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 The problem is they can't fix it. The way the system works is each OEM has a unique SLIC table that gets inserted into that machine's bios. Couple that with a valid xrm-ms certificate and the universal key for that OEM, and the machine stays activated. MS can't blacklist the keys because doing so would invalidate every single 7 machine for that particular OEM. But seeing as 7 hasn't been officially released, whats to stop MS from blacklisting it and issuing a new key to that OEM? Wouldn't that sort it? It might mean that they have to redo some of their laptops but they screwed up by allowing someone to get their key so shouldn't really complain?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilovetech Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 But seeing as 7 hasn't been officially released, whats to stop MS from blacklisting it and issuing a new key to that OEM? Wouldn't that sort it? It might mean that they have to redo some of their laptops but they screwed up by allowing someone to get their key so shouldn't really complain?! yes they can blacklist this key. but then hackers would find another new key. this could go on & on. only way to stop is to make changes in activation & validation technologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x-scratch Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Basically, using a loader is a safer option than using a BIOS mod etc. If the laoder goes wrong.... format and start again, but if the BIOS mod goes wrong, you could be in trouble. but if you know what your doing you wont have any problems lol :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewJW Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 This had to happen, it has happened for each release of Windows that I can remember. Even if they patch this one out, which I bet they will. Another will rapidly take it's place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Warwagon MVC Posted July 30, 2009 MVC Share Posted July 30, 2009 This is why I say just get rid of activation all together because of 2 things 1) Anyone who wants to pirate windows will always be able to do so getting around any activation methods Microsoft has in place. 2) The Legit users who are the honest users get inconvenienced either to activate their copy of windows or have a legit version get flagged as pirated thus being harassed by WGA. All in all product activation is worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacik Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 but if you know what your doing you wont have any problems lol :) Whilst that is true, i preffer ease over technical knowhow. I could happily mod a BIOS for it and i could happily install a loader just by double clicking. I know which i would preffer. This is why I say just get rid of activation all together because of 2 things1) Anyone who wants to pirate windows will always be able to do so getting around any activation methods Microsoft has in place. 2) The Legit users who are the honest users get inconvenienced either to activate their copy of windows or have a legit version get flagged as pirated thus being harassed by WGA. All in all product activation is worthless. Its true. The only thing that they are doing is letting the crackers show of their e-penis size by who can crack it quickest and the best etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unrealistic Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 This is why I say just get rid of activation all together because of 2 things1) Anyone who wants to pirate windows will always be able to do so getting around any activation methods Microsoft has in place. 2) The Legit users who are the honest users get inconvenienced either to activate their copy of windows or have a legit version get flagged as pirated thus being harassed by WGA. All in all product activation is worthless. If they get rid of activation, what do they replace it with? Believe it or not, most people don't know how to properly crack a $5 program, much less Windows. Most people that want to pirate software ask a "techie friend" who does it for them. Months later, that friend is gone or they can't get a hold of them and then wind up going to Best Buy/IT related company asking for help. It is then that any legitimate company will have to tell them they need to purchase a legal copy of Windows. If Microsoft made it as easy as putting in a disc and installing, I guarantee they wouldn't make as much money as they do now. And quite honestly, since XP activation and all the way until now, I have personally only had to make two phone calls regarding activation. Both took under 10 minutes. I may have had to do it for other people, but I have had great luck with activation. A good deal of users do not understand licensing of products and choose to install one key across multiple computers, thereby running into issues. I'm sure you hate having to call Microsoft every time a customer needs to re-activate their own OEM key, but that's just something you have to deal with in the computer repair business. People pirate software because it isn't "hard goods". Anything inside a computer is out of sight and out of mind. They are willing to spend $20 at a theater, $10 in popcorn and drinks because it is tangible. I will admit I used to pirate heavily myself, but then I started looking into freeware alternatives to the programs I used sparingly. I found great options that did everything I needed and I didn't have to feel like an ******* for stealing products I had no intention of ever purchasing. The problem is people have no limits when pirating software. It is a matter of self control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protocol7 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 This just shows that they really do have to get rid of activation. As long as they have activation, Royalty OEMs will need SLP for their system images. So MS put a lock on Windows with one hand and then leave in a wide-open backdoor with the other. The only things that surprise me about this news is how quickly a SLP key leaked and the fact that Vista certs seem to activate. I was expecting that new certs would be needed for the 2.1 SLICs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subject Delta Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Which is exactly how Vista was cracked. I'm surprised they didn't try to at least fix this for Windows 7. Good thing I'm on MSDN. They can't fix it. OEM master keys are given out to help OEM's deploy their images more quickly, so that they can deploy one image to hundreds of machines without having to inbed every machine with its own unique key. The problem is, that it is nigh on impossible for WGA to distinguish between a genuine OEM machine, and a hacked non-OEM machine, making fixing it next to impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protocol7 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 The problem is, that it is nigh on impossible for WGA to distinguish between a genuine OEM machine, and a hacked non-OEM machine, making fixing it next to impossible. Except in this case, seeing as no OEM machines with 7 have shipped yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backdrifter Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Except in this case, seeing as no OEM machines with 7 have shipped yet. But what would stop hackers from stealing new OEM keys later on, if they could steal them now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protocol7 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 But what would stop hackers from stealing new OEM keys later on, if they could steal them now? Not a thing, which is why activation is ultimately a waste of time. By November it'll be impossible to tell a hacked 7 install from a legit store-bought one. And you can be sure that by then there will be a list of every major OEM SLP key out there and the matching slics and certs. But right now it is possible as no OEM machines have shipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacik Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 Not a thing, which is why activation is ultimately a waste of time. By November it'll be impossible to tell a hacked 7 install from a legit store-bought one. And you can be sure that by then there will be a list of every major OEM SLP key out there and the matching slics and certs.But right now it is possible as no OEM machines have shipped. Your right that they havent shipped, however, it was one of the companies who recieved the key, who broke their contract with MS by releasing it to the web, so if they asked all the companies to start imaging their machines again with a new key, not only would it be a pain in the backside for those companies, what would stop the rogue company\employee releaseing the new one again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Getting rid of activation would be a serious mistake on Microsoft's part, and there's no way they'll do it. MS know they can't stop the smart pirates. It doesn't matter how secure their activation method is, what can be made by man can be cracked by man, simple as that. But activation isn't really intended to stop the professionals, as that's not possible. Activation is designed to stop the "schoolyard pirates", the casual copiers, the people who can maybe copy a DVD, but wouldn't know how to go about cracking the copy protection. These are by far the larger proportion of pirates and it's THESE people that Microsoft try to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ci7 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Getting rid of activation would be a serious mistake on Microsoft's part, and there's no way they'll do it.MS know they can't stop the smart pirates. It doesn't matter how secure their activation method is, what can be made by man can be cracked by man, simple as that. But activation isn't really intended to stop the professionals, as that's not possible. Activation is designed to stop the "schoolyard pirates", the casual copiers, the people who can maybe copy a DVD, but wouldn't know how to go about cracking the copy protection. These are by far the larger proportion of pirates and it's THESE people that Microsoft try to stop. +1 agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miuku. Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Activation is designed to stop the "schoolyard pirates", the casual copiers, the people who can maybe copy a DVD, but wouldn't know how to go about cracking the copy protection. These are by far the larger proportion of pirates and it's THESE people that Microsoft try to stop. You're seriously underestimating the abilities of 'casual pirates' nowadays - you can easily pop to one of the torrent sites (or even easier, pop to one of the release sites which offer http based downloads) and download a one-button-activator that Microsoft did nothing about during the Vista period or a pre-cracked distro. As for the emerging markets, they offer pre-cracked corporate DVDs for pennies that require absolutely no skill or ability to use and they're 1:1 authentic as far as MS servers are concerned right out of the box. The whole activation system is a joke, even for 'casual pirates'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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