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WinXP vs Win7

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1for-matik    32
I will admit 0% CPU utilization seems a bit off, playing a 1280x720 HD clip on my system (Q6700 @ 3.6Ghz and a 4890 Toxic) in WMP uses around 12% CPU usage.

I tried to watch CPU utilization when running an HD 720p episode of Weeds with WMP 64bits on Windows 7 RTM.

There's the result with ProcessXP Graph of wmplayer.exe

post-144867-1250931297_thumb.png

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menes    0

I don't know about you, but the only reason I kept XP SP3 in my laptop is that Win7 had problems connecting to my wireless with WPA-PSK (TKIP) both at home and at work. This problem appeared it the first betas of Vista and never got fixed :( (there are threads even on technet fora about that).

On the other hand I would be liar if I didn't wrote that Win7 are vastly superior in any other aspect. I use it on my desktop and I wish I could use it on my laptop.

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Pharos    24

Kinda unrelated, but I'm loving Windows 7!

Only 32 processes :o

Windows 7 is so full of win!

post-102022-1250942394_thumb.jpg

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Subject Delta    108
0% CPU sound fishy - I mean - my CPU usage jumps between 9% and 26% or 3-12% without sound decode (on W7). On top of that a wast jungle of 3rd party processes not using any resources ? Is that an alienware or equivalent or something?

Also your screenshots lack a comparison to XP - giving evidence that either XP is slower or the same as W7. If your screenies are correct, then ofcource, you would need to find something more sensitive to compare with than Task Manager :p

Here is my setup, stay far far away from it,

Intel C2D CPU

Intel PM965 Motherboard (W7 Incl Drivers)

Realtek HD Sound (Latest Drivers x64)

Nvidia 8M Series GPU (186.03 W7 x64 Drivers)

BTW, there isn't much of a difference between WMC and WMP. The Video Filters can be interchanged without any noticeable difference as both WMP and WMC support the GPU out of the box.

Yet, still, my Solid State Drive results stand without scrutiny. :D Also this is the same behavior as from RC.

I have a Q6600, 8GB of Corsair XMS2-PC6400, and a 512MB ATI Radeon 4850 HD, and I am talking about the difference between MPC and WMP, Media Player Classic uses its own internal decoders, whereas the Microsoft players use D3D acceleration to accelerate playback, that is why it doesn't use any CPU. Until you get a serious handle on the forces at play here, you really should stop your Anti-7 ranting, because you clearly have no idea about the real facts. I don't need to do a comparison with XP, because I have already shot down your argument that Windows 7 causes excessive CPU and Memory usage in playback. If task manager is enough for you, then it is enough for me, you can't suddenly decide that task manager is a bad measure because you don't like being proven wrong.

The problem is your setup, simple.

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Swoosh    0
0% CPU sound fishy - I mean - my CPU usage jumps between 9% and 26% or 3-12% without sound decode (on W7). On top of that a wast jungle of 3rd party processes not using any resources ? Is that an alienware or equivalent or something?

0% is unfishy with hardware accelerated decoding. E.g.:

post-304772-1250955696_thumb.png

Playing back the 1920x960 H.264 video here:

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/guide/hd/mammoth_red2.html

Note: in Windows 7 you can play back Quicktime movies without

needing any extras. WMP 12 has out of the box support for them.

Then again, all is not lost with XP. XP is the OS with a dog in it:

1J8VndzDuzlyDlfpLy4tH8m04DzM_thumb.jpg

Lol, what were they thinking?

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Udedenkz    51
I will admit 0% CPU utilization seems a bit off, playing a 1280x720 HD clip on my system (Q6700 @ 3.6Ghz and a 4890 Toxic) in WMP uses around 12% CPU usage.

Thanks. Maybe you also have a problem? lol :)

Did not read this thread so I am not sure what your claiming XP can do with a SSD that W7 cannot, but unless you have a low-end SSD the performance differences if any will be minimal. As for install size that really is no big deal.......right now with two massive games installed I have nearly 80GB of 120GB free, thats 40GB of HDD usage, the games incase your wondering? WoW and TF2, totaling up to 22GB, over half of my current SSD usage.

Now, I do not know what size SSD you are talking about, but if you got a SSD smaller than 20GB than that is your own fault, you should have saved money and got a conventional HDD or shelled out more and got a halfway decent SSD.

Yes it is a low end Solid State Drive (with that whole JMicron mess...), but that should only effect writes to the disk and not reads from the disk. My two screenshots show a rather steady read speed in Windows XP while in Windows 7 - it varies from just being lower (for some reason) to dropping off a cliff. This never happened in XP, XP 64, or Server 2003 for me. This might be related to applications taking longer to start up, although I am not sure.

I tried to watch CPU utilization when running an HD 720p episode of Weeds with WMP 64bits on Windows 7 RTM.

There's the result with ProcessXP Graph of wmplayer.exe

I wasn't actually concentrating on the player per say, in my screenshots the player doesn't take up that much CPU either. It the combination of the player, audio service, etc - somehow bumps it up greatly during playback...

I have a Q6600, 8GB of Corsair XMS2-PC6400, and a 512MB ATI Radeon 4850 HD, and I am talking about the difference between MPC and WMP, Media Player Classic uses its own internal decoders, whereas the Microsoft players use D3D acceleration to accelerate playback, that is why it doesn't use any CPU. Until you get a serious handle on the forces at play here, you really should stop your Anti-7 ranting, because you clearly have no idea about the real facts. I don't need to do a comparison with XP, because I have already shot down your argument that Windows 7 causes excessive CPU and Memory usage in playback. If task manager is enough for you, then it is enough for me, you can't suddenly decide that task manager is a bad measure because you don't like being proven wrong.

The problem is your setup, simple.

Well that setup explains your low CPU usage! Also you haven't really, aside from the fact that your hardware is nowhere near mine, your player uses more RAM than mine on XP (except for the rm file, the 1080p and 720p files of mine take about 30mb - you have a 720p file which takes 60/70).

Offtopic, I have no idea what you are talking about with the players, both players use DirectX Video Acceleration for Video (WMPC can use the system's codecs or its own for DirectX Video Acceleration), it can also use Pixel Shader 2.0 for the resizer and Direct3D full screen mode. Care to explain?

Edited by Udedenkz

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Swoosh    0
no matter the hardware you put them, xp will have a slight better performance than 7, and a os which uses 10 to 15% of cpu power is not a good thing.

the purpose of a os is to manage the computer hardware and interface with the user not to consume cpu power, the lighter the os the better. all the power of your cpu should be used by your applications and games.

so 10% of cpu consuming is a lot, it should be close to zero, but thats the price for a shiny windows that we pay...

Just for fun:

If CPU technology doubles in performance every 18 months, how long

would it take to increase performance by 10%? The answer: 38 days.

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Subject Delta    108
I will admit 0% CPU utilization seems a bit off, playing a 1280x720 HD clip on my system (Q6700 @ 3.6Ghz and a 4890 Toxic) in WMP uses around 12% CPU usage.

Probably dependant on the codecs you use

Well that setup explains your low CPU usage! Also you haven't really, aside from the fact that your hardware is nowhere near mine, your player uses more RAM than mine on XP (except for the rm file, the 1080p and 720p files of mine take about 30mb - you have a 720p file which takes 60/70).

No it doesn't. The fact that you have faster hardware doesn't make your usage less (not significantly anyway), because processes will always try and consume as much CPU power as they need. And to be honest I still don't see what your point is, a couple of extra megs of memory usage is not a big deal, it is probably due to content being buffered in memory. Seeing as very few people hammer their computer, and play back video at the same time, a couple of extra megabytes of memory usage is really not a big deal, but again it is hard to make a direct comparison because I was playing back different video files to you.

Offtopic, I have no idea what you are talking about with the players, both players use DirectX Video Acceleration for Video (WMPC can use the system's codecs or its own for DirectX Video Acceleration), it can also use Pixel Shader 2.0 for the resizer and Direct3D full screen mode. Care to explain?

I wasn't running them in D3D mode, and MPC is not set up to use Directshow by default. The fact that I experience less CPU usage in WMP than I do in MPC illustrates that point.

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ViperAFK    797
I will admit 0% CPU utilization seems a bit off, playing a 1280x720 HD clip on my system (Q6700 @ 3.6Ghz and a 4890 Toxic) in WMP uses around 12% CPU usage.

Did not read this thread so I am not sure what your claiming XP can do with a SSD that W7 cannot, but unless you have a low-end SSD the performance differences if any will be minimal. As for install size that really is no big deal.......right now with two massive games installed I have nearly 80GB of 120GB free, thats 40GB of HDD usage, the games incase your wondering? WoW and TF2, totaling up to 22GB, over half of my current SSD usage.

Now, I do not know what size SSD you are talking about, but if you got a SSD smaller than 20GB than that is your own fault, you should have saved money and got a conventional HDD or shelled out more and got a halfway decent SSD.

Using win 7 64 bit, any hd (x264 encoded ) video uses 0-4% of my cpu due to nvidias gpu acceleration (9600gt), its not fishy at all.

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Subject Delta    108

Despite the fact that you are about the 4th person to say that compared to 1 who doesn't it's funny how udedenkz never pays attention to any of the positive things people are saying :p

Seriously, I would be interested to know where these people get their bias from

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zhangm    1,333

In Windows Vista and Windows 7, CPU usage PERCENT as displayed in the Task Manager is dependent on your power plan settings. High Performance will yield lower processor usage percentage than Power Saver if the processor is dynamically downclocking when it isn't at full load, thus a video that I play under Balanced may use ~ 22% on average, but when played under High Performance uses ~ 4%.

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rnvrajagopal    0
Despite the fact that you are about the 4th person to say that compared to 1 who doesn't it's funny how udedenkz never pays attention to any of the positive things people are saying :p

Seriously, I would be interested to know where these people get their bias from

On my system also CPU stays between 0-2 %. i think udedenkz setup has some issues..

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Subject Delta    108

Yeah that could answer it, judging by udedenkz spec, he may well be using a notebook

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notuptome2004    154

new nvidia drivers out

http://www.nvidia.com/object/win7_winvista...90.62_whql.html

http://www.nvidia.com/object/win7_winvista...90.62_whql.html

Adds WHQL support on Windows 7 for Microsoft?s new DirectX GPU Computing API: DirectCompute.

Optimized for the latest PhysX gaming titles: Batman: Arkham Asylum and Darkest of Days.

Installs PhysX System Software version 9.09.0814.

Nvidia also notes that Windows 7 users with SLI multi-GPU systems can expect a performance gain of as much as 14% over Vista in "top gaming titles." That might apply to the platform in general rather than this specific driver release, though.

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KeeperOfThePizza    49

To all the people who did test's with windows 7 and windows xp.. there can be many factors on why one percentage is higher than the other.

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Udedenkz    51

Update,

- Higher CPU usage (fixed for video, idle still goes above 0)

- Bad Looking Non-Aero Interface

- Bad Looking Aero Interface with plain color background

- Ability to crash Nvidia Drivers

- Lack of Customization of Explorer Interface

- Lack of Search Options

- Search displaying less results per page

- Bad Control Panel Interface

- chkdsk's inability to free up memory when needed

- Major difference between opening speed of files between XP and 7

- SSD read speed decrease - sometimes major

- In-ablity to use arrow keys after pressing ctrl-alt-del to select and open task manager

- Inability to remove Task Manager Tabs

- Classic Explorer only allows single clicking

- Doesn't turn off supercache on its own.

- Uses 32-bit WMP by default for some reason...

- No Support for the wide range of first range SSDs to fix the write causes system to get stuck / apps to get stuck thing.

- Get Stuck, see above.

- no FAT32 support for install, which could fix previous comment.

- No easy way to mustem beep driver - other stuff like that.

- User Interface is not as suitable for lower resolutions, star orb feels out of place on the hamburger bar.

:D

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zhangm    1,333
- Higher CPU usage (fixed for video, idle still goes above 0)

Oh noes, CPU usage!!!11 If you never use the CPU, then why have one?

- Bad Looking Non-Aero Interface
- Bad Looking Aero Interface with plain color background

Looks fine to me. This is a matter of personal taste.

- Ability to crash Nvidia Drivers

nVidia would like to hear your feedback about these issues.

- Lack of Search Options

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/...s/advquery.mspx

- Search displaying less results per page

Search doesn't paginate. :rolleyes:

- Bad Control Panel Interface

The ability to search through the control panel for task-related options makes point-and-click navigation obsolete. Otherwise, I like it. The categories take some getting used to, but are at least better than those in XP.

- chkdsk's inability to free up memory when needed

chkdsk is like fsck, and should be run at boot.

- Major difference between opening speed of files between XP and 7

I don't see this. People have pointed out that the window animations slow down the opening of windows by about 40 ms however.

- SSD read speed decrease - sometimes major

Does this happen with all models or only certain models? If the latter, it could be the fault of the disk or its firmware.

- In-ablity to use arrow keys after pressing ctrl-alt-del to select and open task manager

You made this up; arrow keys work fine. Note that you can immediately open Task Manager by three other methods: right-clicking on the taskbar, typing taskmgr into the Start Menu, and pressing Ctrl Shift Esc.

- Uses 32-bit WMP by default for some reason...

The reason is that many plugins and codecs don't support the x64 version.

:rolleyes:

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Kyang    112
Update,

- Higher CPU usage (fixed for video, idle still goes above 0)

- Bad Looking Non-Aero Interface

- Bad Looking Aero Interface with plain color background

- Ability to crash Nvidia Drivers

- Lack of Customization of Explorer Interface

- Lack of Search Options

- Search displaying less results per page

- Bad Control Panel Interface

- chkdsk's inability to free up memory when needed

- Major difference between opening speed of files between XP and 7

- SSD read speed decrease - sometimes major

- In-ablity to use arrow keys after pressing ctrl-alt-del to select and open task manager

- Inability to remove Task Manager Tabs

- Classic Explorer only allows single clicking

- Doesn't turn off supercache on its own.

- Uses 32-bit WMP by default for some reason...

- No Support for the wide range of first range SSDs to fix the write causes system to get stuck / apps to get stuck thing.

- Get Stuck, see above.

- no FAT32 support for install, which could fix previous comment.

- No easy way to mustem beep driver - other stuff like that.

- User Interface is not as suitable for lower resolutions, star orb feels out of place on the hamburger bar.

:D

Orange: That's pretty subjective, so it's not really possible to discuss those.

Blue: I remember this worked just fine for me. Maybe I recalled incorrectly...

Pinkish: What? Ability to crash Nvidia drivers? "Stuff like that"? :wacko: .

Green: Agreed in some respects. I would like to be able to select which commands appear in the command bar or whatever it's called. Though, for me, Win7 definitely opens files faster.

Red: Would you mind elaborating on these a bit?

Black: No comment.

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Nagisan    248
Using win 7 64 bit, any hd (x264 encoded ) video uses 0-4% of my cpu due to nvidias gpu acceleration (9600gt), its not fishy at all.

Could this be related to using external codecs? I personally have been using Win7codecs ever since I starting using Windows, could this be forcing WMP to use those codecs for all media, therefore increasing CPU usage?

EDIT: After farther examination it seems the video I was testing was no x264 encoded, but some other HD format. Any easy way to convert any video format to x264 encoded format?

- No Support for the wide range of first range SSDs to fix the write causes system to get stuck / apps to get stuck thing.

That is not a Windows 7 issue.

Many early SSDs used the JMicron controller, the controller is what causes the stuttering (or as you call it, stuck) issues.

I also have an earlier SSD, a 120GB OCZ Apex. It uses the same controller but oddly enough it does not have the stuttering issue on Windows 7 Profession with write-cache disabled. I had the stuttering issue in both Vista and W7 Beta through RC and even RTM if I had write-cache enabled (which is the default).

Edited by mwpeck

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iamwhoiam    69
Despite the fact that you are about the 4th person to say that compared to 1 who doesn't it's funny how udedenkz never pays attention to any of the positive things people are saying :p

Seriously, I would be interested to know where these people get their bias from

Mine peaks at 3% when playing HD 1080p in WMP and peaks at 4%-6% in MPC.

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Subject Delta    108
Update,

- Higher CPU usage (fixed for video, idle still goes above 0)

- Bad Looking Non-Aero Interface

- Bad Looking Aero Interface with plain color background

- Ability to crash Nvidia Drivers

- Lack of Customization of Explorer Interface

- Lack of Search Options

- Search displaying less results per page

- Bad Control Panel Interface

- chkdsk's inability to free up memory when needed

- Major difference between opening speed of files between XP and 7

- SSD read speed decrease - sometimes major

- In-ablity to use arrow keys after pressing ctrl-alt-del to select and open task manager

- Inability to remove Task Manager Tabs

- Classic Explorer only allows single clicking

- Doesn't turn off supercache on its own.

- Uses 32-bit WMP by default for some reason...

- No Support for the wide range of first range SSDs to fix the write causes system to get stuck / apps to get stuck thing.

- Get Stuck, see above.

- no FAT32 support for install, which could fix previous comment.

- No easy way to mustem beep driver - other stuff like that.

- User Interface is not as suitable for lower resolutions, star orb feels out of place on the hamburger bar.

:D

I am not going to waste my time going through that again to keep rebuffing your ignorance, I have better things to do so my closing point to anybody who needs advice about Windows 7 is this is this:

Do not listen to any of the rubbish spouted by this poster

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ToneKnee    301
Update,

- Higher CPU usage (fixed for video, idle still goes above 0)

Windows Vista/7 has better SMP support than XP, meaning that multi-tasking is a lot more smoother.

- Bad Looking Non-Aero Interface

- Bad Looking Aero Interface with plain color background

Matter of opinion, but it beats the default Windows XP themes, not to mention that a GPU driven GUI is better than a non-GPU driven one.

- Ability to crash Nvidia Drivers

Drivers crash themselves, don't blame Microsoft or Windows, it's down to the OEM Vendor and I'd seriously consider file some bug reports if this is the case, other than that, it could be a fault with the hardware or your system configuration.

- Lack of Customization of Explorer Interface

Like I said previously, Windows XP had a crappy default theme, people had to theme it to make it not look like crap, Aero is very nice and I love it the way it is, then again, that's my opinion.

- Lack of Search Options

Lack of Search Options? I love the ability to search Neowin from within Explorer, or any other website that supports that feature, don't make me laugh. I'm sure Brandon Live will show you a pointed list about all the different features the new Search has.

- Search displaying less results per page

No it doesn't.

- Bad Control Panel Interface

Again, I don't see a problem since I can hit the 'Windows key' and type something like 'Uninstall' and it gives me the program uninstall function from within the Control panel. Less clicks, less time spent looking for what you want.

- chkdsk's inability to free up memory when needed

*sighs*

- Major difference between opening speed of files between XP and 7

Windows 7 is as fast as Windows XP whening opening folders/files, but then again, this can be for a number of reasons i.e. processors etc.

- SSD read speed decrease - sometimes major

This is not Windows Vista/Windows 7's fault, this is a problem with the drive in question and Windows XP and other operating systems have the exact same problem, so stop trying to make it look like it's Windows 7's fault. Also, Microsoft have introduced the 'TRIM' command for SSD's which manufactorers are going to enable (but obviously not on all the SSDs) which will greatly maintain the SSD performance.

- In-ablity to use arrow keys after pressing ctrl-alt-del to select and open task manager

Sorry, I've just done this right now, and I was able to scroll down the list using my arrow keys to select the task manager, so obviously this is a problem on your end.

- Inability to remove Task Manager Tabs

What?! You mean the bit where you double click in a empty white space to make the tabs and menu bar disappear? I can do that as well, again, don't know what you are doing here.

- Classic Explorer only allows single clicking

Can be changed through the options menu. *sighs*

- Doesn't turn off supercache on its own.

What do you mean? Supercache will cache objects when the system is idle, Windows Vista had a far more aggressive approach by caching all the time, Windows 7 does not.

- Uses 32-bit WMP by default for some reason...

This is a codec problem, not WMP itself.

- No Support for the wide range of first range SSDs to fix the write causes system to get stuck / apps to get stuck thing.

That's down to SSDs lacking a cache buffer, that's why newer ones have a cache buffer, it's a fundemental problem with SSDs which will get phased out over time, again, not a problem with Windows, and XP suffers from this problem (it's even worse).

- Get Stuck, see above.

Sorry, did you run out of points here?

- no FAT32 support for install, which could fix previous comment.

What?! How will FAT32 fix the SSD problem?

- No easy way to mustem beep driver - other stuff like that.

Not sure about this..

- User Interface is not as suitable for lower resolutions, star orb feels out of place on the hamburger bar.

And we are moving into the age of high resolutions and the fact Windows Vista/7 can scale like this is great. And Windows XP looks like complete **** on lower resolutions, so thank you for clutching at straws.

:D

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Udedenkz    51

@Frank - If I didn't complain about that issue, I wouldn't have figured it out.

@mwpeck - Thanks I am gonna try that. :)

Orange: That's pretty subjective, so it's not really possible to discuss those.

Blue: I remember this worked just fine for me. Maybe I recalled incorrectly...

Pinkish: What? Ability to crash Nvidia drivers? "Stuff like that"? :wacko: .

Green: Agreed in some respects. I would like to be able to select which commands appear in the command bar or whatever it's called. Though, for me, Win7 definitely opens files faster.

Red: Would you mind elaborating on these a bit?

Black: No comment.

Orange - Agree

Blue - Sorry, I meant I can't really see it most of the time - the selection box

Pinkish - I managed - in my quest to fix the CPU usage - to crash Nvidia drivers. No joke. I am talking about Beep Driver.

Green - No Comment.

Red - Windows XP managed to squeeze more search results per screen in the details view when searching. Search dialog is pretty much empty of options, Winkey + F. Enabling Classic Explorer in Policies disabled double clicking to open - I am not sure whether or not that is the default behavior.

Black - Asking Too Much, lol. Fixed the Video Playback by doing two things - reverting back to Windows Realtek HD driver and set minimum power when plugged in to 100% for the CPU.

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Subject Delta    108
@Frank - If I didn't complain about that issue, I wouldn't have figured it out.

By figuring it out, you have proven that it wasn't the OS. Kind of defeats some of your argument already really, which should leave the question open as to how much more of your complaints list is down more to your own screwups than problems with Windows 7

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ToneKnee    301
By figuring it out, you have proven that it wasn't the OS. Kind of defeats some of your argument already really, which should leave the question open as to how much more of your complaints list is down more to your own screwups than problems with Windows 7

I've commented on nearly all of his points, pretty much explains everything.

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