Microsoft no longer requires 1280x720 resolution on 360 titles


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http://www.develop-online.net/blog/44/Micr...-new-resolution

Black Rock's Jefferies talks LCD screen resolutions

Here at Black Rock we use 26-inch widescreen Sony Bravia LCD TVs. We chose these devices because they gave good image quality and were very popular; the theory being that we should develop games on hardware as similar as possible to that which our customers use.

This LCD model advertises its display format as 720p, but on closer inspection it?s not 1280x720 like you?d expect. In actual fact, it?s got a pixel resolution of 1366x768. Of course, LCD TVs can only display images at their native pixel resolution; if they try and display any other resolution then they need to first scale that image or letterbox it. The Bravias we use don?t have the option to display letterbox through HDMI-A and, in any case, even if they did it?s doubtful the consumer would know about it.

So, in order to display the 1280x720 output image from our game, the LCD must first use its hardware scaler to scale the image by 106.66 per cent in both axes. The lovingly crafted 1280x720 image has gone to be replaced by something dependent on the quality of the LCD scaler. But no matter how competent the scaler is, it?s difficult to image how scaling by 106.66% could do any good to the image.

So what is it about 1366x768? There are millions of these LCDs out there but the resolution doesn?t look familiar. It?s not a power-of-two, it?s not divisible by 640 and it?s not even an exact 16:9 aspect ratio (although it iNEW YEAR?S RESOLUTIONEAR?S RESOLUTION

The best I?ve managed to come up with is that it?s the highest resolution at nearly 16:9 that will fit into a megabyte boundary.

Multiply 1366 and 768 together and you get very nearly 1024x1024, or 1 megabyte. This means that the LCD manufacturers can use off-the-shelf video memory with very little wastage. On the other hand, if they were to use true 720p then they?d waste 13 per cent of the video memory and possibly lose sales to their rivals who could claim slightly higher resolutions.

So you can?t trust your customer?s display devices. That?s not exactly news ? that?s been the case for as long as consoles have existed ? but what?s interesting is that this time the problem is being exasperated by our desire to hit 720p.

The first thing to note is that we all make trade-offs between image resolution and quality. Probably the most noticeable example of this is multi-sample anti-aliasing. Both hi-def consoles support either 4xMSAA, where the scene is anti-aliased vertically and horizontally, or 2xMSAA, where the scene is only anti-aliased vertically or horizontally. However, if you?re throwing a lot of graphics around then you won?t be able to afford 4XMSAA at 1At this point most games, including our games here at Black Rock, drop down to 2xMSAA at 1280x720. We are making a trade-off and saying that the screen resolution is more importaThis isn?t necessarily an entirely voluntary move because, until recently, Microsoft had a TCR insisting that games run at 1280x720 ? providing you weren?t one of the lucky ones like Halo, who got it waived and ran at 1152x640, that is.o, who got it waived and ran at 1152x640, that is.ho got it waived and ran at 1152x640, that is.

By asserting that screen resolution is more important than anti-aliasing we?re leaving ourselves vulnerable when the customer?s LCD decides it?s going to rescale the image to a new resolution anyway. If we instead assume that the LCD is going to rescale then, for some games, it might be more sensible to present it with a better anti-aliased but lower resolution image in the first place.

As more and more LCDs ship with the full HD resolution of 1920x1080 then this will become less of an issue, but I?ve just had a look on Amazon and all the 26It?s is for this reason that Microsoft recently retired the TCR insisting on 1280x720. Now we are free to make the trade-off between resolution and image quality as we see fit.rade-off between resolution and image quality as we see fit.

Not exactly official as it is taken from a blog, however this is still interesting. We have seen an increase in "mid-def" games lately and I can only assume this trend will continue on both the xbox 360 and playstation 3.

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Just to add a bit more.

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/09/02/microsof...ng-mandate-for/

In a column published today on Develop, Black Rock Studio (Pure, Split/Second) technical director David Jeffrries revealed that Microsoft has removed an item from its TCRs (Technical Certification Requirements) that stated all Xbox 360 games must run at a minimum of 1280x720 (720p) resolution if the system is in HD mode. According to Jeffries, this was done earlier this year so that developers could be "free to make the trade-off between resolution and image quality as we see fit."

TCRs are technical "rules" that all games developed for a given platform must adhere to in order to be certified for release. Of course, some games that have skirted this specific TCR have still been allowed on the system; the most notable being Microsoft's own Halo 3, which runs at 1152x640 (progressive).

Joystiq has confirmed with a trusted source familiar with Microsoft's TCRs that Jeffries' claim is legit. Not only that, but, as of March 2009, Xbox 360 developers are no longer required to utilize full-screen anti-aliasing in their games. The elimination of both requirements is especially noteworthy since the console maker had touted that all 360 games would run at a minimum of 720p with at least 2x FSAA since before the hardware launched.

As Jeffries points out in his column, 1280x720 isn't necessarily the "starting point" for HD on many displays and that it's not nearly as crucial as anti-aliasing. It's not clear if the back-tracking on Microsoft's part was due to pressure from the development community or not, but we can probably all agree that, as long as a game looks great, it doesn't really matter how its creators got there. Does it?

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Does this mean we may finally see some 16:10 games running at 1152x720? Seen as the requirement is lifted, this may be possible. I mean, it's well under 1280x720 in terms of pure bytes.

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I doubt you will see any 16:10 resolutions. The xbox 360 is still limited by software to the resolutions you currently have. What is happening is devs are running games at a lower resolution and then scaling them up to the resolution you have selected.

Here is Halo 3 so you can understand what is going on.

halo3nativereso2.jpg

res.jpg

res2.jpg

The game is scaled to 720p on the first shot and 1080p on second, but if you look at the lines and how they are displayed, you will see that it's true resolution is 640p. The point of this is to be able to achieve a stable framerate on games where the consumer expects a minimum of 30/60.

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Yes and no. While HANA does a great job at scaling, you are still essentially up-converting your original signal.

It's very similar to an up-scaling DVD player or X-Fi Crystalizer on MP3's. Your source "image" is of lower quality, so it may still appear great, but it would look even better on it's true native resolution.

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It's not going to be an issue, two of the biggest games this generation have been less than 720p (Halo 3 and CoD4 the latter which is also running less than 720 on the PS3).

Gamers don't care as long as the game still looks good and plays well.

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That explains how the new Forza 3 will run in 60fps. Sounds like it's just a little higher res than wii games...

1152x640 is most definitely more then a "little" higher then Wii games :laugh:

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1152x640 is most definitely more then a "little" higher then Wii games :laugh:

Forza 3 runs at 720p (1280x720) unless you know something I don't?

Not really new news, games already run sub-hd and get upscaled.

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It's not going to be an issue, two of the biggest games this generation have been less than 720p (Halo 3 and CoD4 the latter which is also running less than 720 on the PS3).

Gamers don't care as long as the game still looks good and plays well.

I have to agree there, it shouldn't be too much of an issue as long as it still looks great and performs well. Most people probably won't be able to tell the difference anyhow if it is just under the 720p resolution.

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Modern Warfare 2 will run at 600p. Noone seems to be complaining about that

Why should they..that game looks awesome.. :) I really don't care as long as the game looks good and play smooth.

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Meh i'll play on my PC at 1920x1080 will 4xfsaa and 16AF.. maybe more if the engine still run like MW1 ;) (Btw i'am doing that with a 199$ 4890..)

Congrats!!

Let's all give you a standing ovation!!

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Forza 3 runs at 720p (1280x720) unless you know something I don't?

Not really new news, games already run sub-hd and get upscaled.

Oh, sorry, I somehow how missed out the Forza bit and thought he was on about Halo 3... I have no idea why! :blink:

Also it is news, as now any game is allowed to do it, and officially :p

EDIT: rhyooki - Yeah, but how much did everything else cost, like the RAM, HDD, Motherboard, OS, Case, USB ports, etc? I bet it didn't come to a total sum of $199 ;)

So yes, go play 1080p, congrats, we'll get 720p gaming at $199, thanks!

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i wouldn't go back to PC gaming if you paid me. all of these anti-360 threads are quite sad.

Not an "anti-360" thread...stop being so damn defensive. :rolleyes:

I haven't played my Playstation 3 since Infamous and I just only recently turned it on to upgrade to 3.0 firmware. My Wii just sits there doing absolutely nothing. I played my 360 just yesterday and typically I play it once every few days. I own a total of 10 games for PS3/Wii combined and over 70 for my xbox 360.

I post threads that I find interesting, which just so happen to be topics that Audioboxer is afraid to post and the Xbox 360 fans won't post.

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I post threads that I find interesting, which just so happen to be topics that Audioboxer is afraid to post

I'm afraid they be hatin :(

Actually I just didn't see this news article before now and tbh I don't find it all that interesting (no offence). The devs have done 720p fine on the 360 so far for the majority of titles I don't really know why a noteworthy number of them would be begging MS to allow them to do sub-HD. Maybe to aim for 60FPS or 4 player splitscreen, but such games already do sub-HD anyway (Halo/COD).

As the the consoles get older the chance of everything just being 720p gets higher anyway as more power is squeezed out. I'm willing to bet Infinity Ward could do 720p/60FPS but instead seeing as hardly anyone cares they'll just touch up the solid engine they already have rather than spend a considerable amount of time overhauling it for the couple of thousand pixel counters on gaming forums.

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I'm afraid they be hatin :(

Actually I just didn't see this news article before now and tbh I don't find it all that interesting (no offence). The devs have done 720p fine on the 360 so far for the majority of titles I don't really know why a noteworthy number of them would be begging MS to allow them to do sub-HD. Maybe to aim for 60FPS or 4 player splitscreen, but such games already do sub-HD anyway (Halo/COD).

As the the consoles get older the chance of everything just being 720p gets higher anyway as more power is squeezed out. I'm willing to bet Infinity Ward could do 720p/60FPS but instead seeing as hardly anyone cares they'll just touch up the solid engine they already have rather than spend a considerable amount of time overhauling it for the couple of thousand pixel counters on gaming forums.

Agreed. I don't see this as a big issue. We likely won't notice any difference.

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see? now you're being defensive, you feel like you need to mention the PS3 to balance it out. i'm not defensive, simply honest. besides, as was noted above some of the biggest games this generation have been less than 720 and if it wasn't admitted to by the publishers, we'd never be the wiser. and since this is something we all knew, the only reason you'd post this is to make some waves - and we all know there's a five-wheeled 360 bashing bandwagon out there, which i find amusing.

anyway i'm trying to get you to self-censor muhahahahaha :devil: don't take it personally, i consider you a cool dude.

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