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Ya it still is pretty rubbish.

I play GTA4 on PC and I like to play the Multiplayer and the Games For Windows Live thing is really annoying.

For example, I start GTA4 up, and go through about 30-40 seconds of intros to reach the multiplayer. As I go to join a game, I get a message in-game saying that I cannot join until I update Games For Windows Live. It then closes the game, downloads and installs and then re-opens the game and I have to sit through another 30-40 seconds of intros and load screens.

With Steam if the Steam Client needs to be updated it just lets me know, it doesn't stop me from playing any of my games. But more than just inconvenience the GFWL UI is very poorly laid out. Sometimes it doesn't respond, sometimes it locks my mouse and keyboard in to its UI and I am unable to get them working again in the game (This is rare but still sometimes happens). It's just a real bag of hurt that I cannot opt out of. Thats the most frustrating thing if I wanna play GTA4 for PC I have to use GFWL. Theres no way out of it, even my Game Profiles are apparently synced with there servers or at-least thats what the in-game messages tell me.

I don't see why Microsoft had to make this thing so annoying its like they are actually trying to **** PC gamers off so we get an XBOX or something.

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You dont know then..... its still around. Batman: Arkham Asylum and Street Fighter 4 are the most recent games I can think of that use it.

And there was this minor game last year, Fallout 3 and a few others that put it to good use. The idea is good, the implementation still lacks but the idea is okay. It's tought to take real seriously when it sits next to Steam, but if I were part of the whole Impulse thing I can see where it is upsetting.

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You dont know then..... its still around. Batman: Arkham Asylum and Street Fighter 4 are the most recent games I can think of that use it.

Here's the list of all Windows Live games(the ones with the green checkmark). That's about 12 this year, if those last 3 get released on time. That's pretty meager to be scared that it's going to "take over" PC gaming.

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The one thing I like about GFW that I wish was in steam's games like TF2 is having a seperate voice channel. I would like to have a single ear headset only for voice and have the game sounds from my desktop speakers.

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I totally agree. I don't care for any of the stuff they make, but that is just how I feel.

You're using Neowin right now. You'd be surprised the things Stardock is involved in making that you use I think.

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You're using Neowin right now. You'd be surprised the things Stardock is involved in making that you use I think.

your sig = win

love that game, so much that even after demigod id still buy another stardock game

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You're using Neowin right now. You'd be surprised the things Stardock is involved in making that you use I think.

I was talking about actual products, ie: software. And as far as I am aware, Neowin did not start out being backed by Stardock (correct me if I am wrong).

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I'm for 'Games for Windows' but I'm against 'Games for Windows LIVE'. The latter is nowhere near its console counterpart. It had the potential to do so well but Microsoft didn't give it the attention and resources it deserves. Fortunately, services like Impulse can succeed where GFWL failed.

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I love Sins and the expansion (not sure about the one coming soon though as I prefer new ships etc to politics) as well as Demigod.

The launch for demigod was hell but it runs brilliantly now for me and my mates and its drm free, oh how I wish steam would stop with that junk (or make it A LOT CLEARER)

GFWL is in a fair few games and generally its been fine for me. Not the best UI but it works for the most part. One of the things I liked about the GFW program (which is/isnt the same as GFWL?) was if a game had that on the box it was vista 64bit compatible (not nessarily native) which made choosing games in the early stages easier as I thought 64bit testing was a requirement for the cetificate.

Also I do like the truerank matching system for DoW 2 and the fact its simple to play games as a party. I really wish demigod pantheon had a teams approach in the same way with ranks as we just make single games right now when we play.

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I was talking about actual products, ie: software. And as far as I am aware, Neowin did not start out being backed by Stardock (correct me if I am wrong).

I like their software, i just wouldnt pay for that type of thing

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I love Sins and the expansion (not sure about the one coming soon though as I prefer new ships etc to politics) as well as Demigod.

The launch for demigod was hell but it runs brilliantly now for me and my mates and its drm free, oh how I wish steam would stop with that junk (or make it A LOT CLEARER)

GFWL is in a fair few games and generally its been fine for me. Not the best UI but it works for the most part. One of the things I liked about the GFW program (which is/isnt the same as GFWL?) was if a game had that on the box it was vista 64bit compatible (not nessarily native) which made choosing games in the early stages easier as I thought 64bit testing was a requirement for the cetificate.

Also I do like the truerank matching system for DoW 2 and the fact its simple to play games as a party. I really wish demigod pantheon had a teams approach in the same way with ranks as we just make single games right now when we play.

is the lag problem fixed? :o

i might need reinstall demigod if it is

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is the lag problem fixed? :o

i might need reinstall demigod if it is

I have to say I have not had the issue for ages but I have not been pushing it with full players as we have a tendancy to play all on a team against hard AI for example but yeh I would def give it another go as the latest patches tweaked the gameplay a bit and its more intense I have found.

I do like demigod, its like a more relaxed noob friendly HoN.

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I have to say I have not had the issue for ages but I have not been pushing it with full players as we have a tendancy to play all on a team against hard AI for example but yeh I would def give it another go as the latest patches tweaked the gameplay a bit and its more intense I have found.

I do like demigod, its like a more relaxed noob friendly HoN.

it definitely is a nice break from HoN, but i couldnt stand the laggy gameplay that EVERYONE got and the dev's refuse to fix because they clung to a broken P2P system

HoN has 0 lag which is always nice

But i tend to only wanna play players, the AI is predictable(this type of game youll never get a good AI)

but ill try it again none the less, i was planning to whenever/ifever they release those two new DG's anyhow

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I was talking about actual products, ie: software. And as far as I am aware, Neowin did not start out being backed by Stardock (correct me if I am wrong).

And Neowin is quite different from what it started out.

Anyway, my comment about GFWL is the idea that any update you make to your game has to go through Microsoft for approval which in the future may not be a free approval process.

On the console, that's not a huge deal. But on the PC, there are lots of things that can require a game to be updated that have little to do with the game (video driver update, OS update, virus scanner update) and there's no way I'd be willing to have to jump through hoops and pay for it in the process just to be a PC game developer.

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it definitely is a nice break from HoN, but i couldnt stand the laggy gameplay that EVERYONE got and the dev's refuse to fix because they clung to a broken P2P system

HoN has 0 lag which is always nice

But i tend to only wanna play players, the AI is predictable(this type of game youll never get a good AI)

but ill try it again none the less, i was planning to whenever/ifever they release those two new DG's anyhow

I have to say we have found the AI to be better in the new patch but we may just be useless again at it :D

Frogboy: I see your point about paying for updates. Does this system deliver all the updates using MS servers or are they hosted on your kit before its pushed out?

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And Neowin is quite different from what it started out.

Anyway, my comment about GFWL is the idea that any update you make to your game has to go through Microsoft for approval which in the future may not be a free approval process.

On the console, that's not a huge deal. But on the PC, there are lots of things that can require a game to be updated that have little to do with the game (video driver update, OS update, virus scanner update) and there's no way I'd be willing to have to jump through hoops and pay for it in the process just to be a PC game developer.

thats a good point

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I still don't understand the part where you just gotta quit entirely. Why does Stardock games have to fit under GFWL? Don't you guys have your own updater anyway? Ya know, that one service you guys are, from what I understand, still trying to get rolling? What's going on with that and how important is it still that Stardock be labeled "Games for Windows"?

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I still don't understand the part where you just gotta quit entirely. Why does Stardock games have to fit under GFWL? Don't you guys have your own updater anyway? Ya know, that one service you guys are, from what I understand, still trying to get rolling? What's going on with that and how important is it still that Stardock be labeled "Games for Windows"?

It's not so much the 'Games for Windows' brand that's important. Mr. Wardell was an advocate of the 'Games for Windows LIVE' service because he thought it would better the PC as a gaming platform. Actually, a lot of people thought it would. And I was one of them. When I first heard of GFWL, I was really excited. I thought it would take what Xbox LIVE did well to and make it even better on the PC platform. Sadly, that wasn't the case at all.

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Xbox Live didn't get where it is today overnight though. GfWL as a service is like what? almost 2yo? I forget when it started. It's basic right now and to match what the 360 has with Xbox Live is asking alot at this point. That's not to say MS will totally forget about it and drop it imo. They'll fix it and make it better over time, the priority for them though is the Xbox more at this point.

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It's running off the same backend though, it shouldn't take them the same amount of time to polish it as they've already done all the major work with the xbox.

I do agree they're focused on the xbox at the moment, but that doesn't mean that it's ok for GfWL to suck as it currently does.

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See, that's the point I was trying to understand. They have Impulse, you'd think they'd be pushing their work through it or something, yet Brad appears to be more concerned with what Microsoft is doing, and apparently, is willing to put his career in gaming on the line as well as if there's no viable alternatives in the PC world.

Honestly, out of all this, it really feels like Stardock has their priorities mixed up. As a gamer and fan of a few certain developers out there, it pleases me to know that when they come across issues, they would work towards fixing those issues or finding another option. I'm not a big Stardock games fan (not into RTS or space that much), but if I was, I'd certainly be disappointed to know that the developer would just up and leave with the issue. :/

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