powerade01 Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Hey I think the article "Is Microsoft the juggernaut of yore?" has risen a debate if these opinion editorials belong in the frontpage or not. I think expressing your opinion is great but I am in disagree in putting it in the frontpage. Putting it in the frontpage is expressing Neowin's opinion when this is just the opinion of one (staff) member. Also, articles like the one I used as a example are just plain flamebait and asking for a war to happen. I contacted a staff member about a warning I recieved for making a joke about Apple in a Microsoft article, which was considered as flamebait, and I got warned. I communicated to the mod that I did not agree with it and it was a simple joke. He refused so I contacted the supervisor. I also explained the situation but nothing; Noone could understand it was a simple joke. I contacted a admin and the admin did not even respond. My issue at hand is not my case, but the case of opinion articles should not belong on the frontpage at all, doesnt matter if they are or arent flamebait. They should belong in the blogs and period. I want Neowin's base on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted October 4, 2009 Veteran Share Posted October 4, 2009 I don't see a problem with news reporters or editors writing editorials and posting them to the front page, as long as they are clearly labelled as "Editorial" (which they currently are). I think it's a nice change to read an opinion piece every now and then, rather than just news all the time. Editorials also provide a great base for discussion, the only problem is... a lot of our members seem set on bashing the reporter and their opinion rather than discussing it and bringing up points as to why they disagree with it. Often, members will make pointless comments like "why is this on the front page?", "this isn't news, it is an opinion", "this is flame-bait." Yes, it is an opinion because it is an editorial - an editorial is an opinion piece. No, it is not flame-bait. Reporters and editors would never post flame-bait. The main reason people called Brad's editorial flame-bait was because it didn't consider every single product Microsoft had ever released :blink: How ridiculous. It is one person's analysis of the situation - it's not going to include every single issue/factor, it is up to the members to join in and participate in a meaningful discussion bringing up points like "the author of the article didn't seem to touch on Microsoft's success with the Xbox 360. I think this alone shows that Microsoft can still be a dominant force in certain markets," not "this is flame-bait, the author is an idiot - he didn't include the Xbox's success in his article, bwahahah." See the difference? So, to conclude, I don't think it's the editorials being posted which is the problem, I think it is the reaction of some of our members and it's quite disappointing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamminium Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 I think editorials should represent the publication's view (in this case, Neowin's) and not just one single member's. The article in question is more appropriately placed in an Opinion section. It does, after all, depend on the staff because this is their site. They decide how it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerade01 Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share Posted October 4, 2009 I think editorials should represent the publication's view (in this case, Neowin's) and not just one single member's. The article in question is more appropriately placed in an Opinion section. Thats my point. The article, since it is frontpage, represents Neowin's whole opinion. Any nonmember that comes around and see it, will most likely think that is Neowin's opinion on the matter. I don't see a problem with news reporters or editors writing editorials and posting them to the front page, as long as they are clearly labelled as "Editorial" (which they currently are).I think it's a nice change to read an opinion piece every now and then, rather than just news all the time. Editorials also provide a great base for discussion, the only problem is... a lot of our members seem set on bashing the reporter and their opinion rather than discussing it and bringing up points as to why they disagree with it. Often, members will make pointless comments like "why is this on the front page?", "this isn't news, it is an opinion", "this is flame-bait." Yes, it is an opinion because it is an editorial - an editorial is an opinion piece. No, it is not flame-bait. Reporters and editors would never post flame-bait. The main reason people called Brad's editorial flame-bait was because it didn't consider every single product Microsoft had ever released How ridiculous. It is one person's analysis of the situation - it's not going to include every single issue/factor, it is up to the members to join in and participate in a meaningful discussion bringing up points like "the author of the article didn't seem to touch on Microsoft's success with the Xbox 360. I think this alone shows that Microsoft can still be a dominant force in certain markets," not "this is flame-bait, the author is an idiot - he didn't include the Xbox's success in his article, bwahahah." See the difference? So, to conclude, I don't think it's the editorials being posted which is the problem, I think it is the reaction of some of our members and it's quite disappointing to me. I disagree with it being a nice chance. I, and many other members, only read the frontpage for news. If I wanted a opinion of someone I would click on their blog (which Neowin has) and read the blog entry which could be a opinion about anything. Reporters and editors would never post flamebait? You are speaking for yourself. Maybe his intention wasnt or was flamebait. You will never know that (I personally think it was not intented as flamebaint). If he isnt going to include every single issue/factor and just post the negitive ones, what kind of opinion article is that? To conclude, I think the site has to blend with its memberbase. EVERY SINGLE staff member knew this was going to happen. Why didnt they ask the author to post this on his personal blog rather than it being a frontpage article? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
what Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 I kinda agree. Maybe a 'featured blog' section would be better, so these people can post their editorials in their blogs on the forums and have them linked to on the front page. That way, it doesn't look like Neowin's opinion, but still encourages discussion in the comments. Just a thought. I think editorials have their place on the site, but not on the front page with all the other news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamminium Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 I was alluding to a separate section for Opinion articles (not necessarily blog). I'm used to seeing three sections: Editorial, Opinion and Letters to the Editor but really, it's the just standard format of a general news publisher. Neowin has its own focus and style. You do propose a valid point: if an opinion piece is to be approved, it should at least consider pros and cons of the issue thoroughly. I gave up on reading "Is Microsoft the juggernaut of yore?" halfway through because it was a purely biased piece of writing. It fell short of my expectation of an Editorial item which supposedly considers the issues fairly while expressing its own position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Well, they could be redefined as Letters to the Editor, then maybe the whiners would stop complaining about them. Seriously, what does it matter where they get posted? Don't like to read them? Avoid the ones tagged as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerade01 Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share Posted October 4, 2009 Well, they could be redefined as Letters to the Editor, then maybe the whiners would stop complaining about them.Seriously, what does it matter where they get posted? Don't like to read them? Avoid the ones tagged as such. But you HAVE to read them because they are frontpage....If the title was in a seprete section without the summary than you dont have to. Or....a alternative. Everything editorial/opinion/etc shouldnt have a summary and just post the title. It would mark what is news and what is a editorial/opinion/etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoXY Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Do people not read editorials in newspapers? Those are the opinion of one person being published on a paper....I don't understand what the problem is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corris Veteran Posted October 4, 2009 Veteran Share Posted October 4, 2009 But you HAVE to read them because they are frontpage....If the title was in a seprete section without the summary than you dont have to.Or....a alternative. Everything editorial/opinion/etc shouldnt have a summary and just post the title. It would mark what is news and what is a editorial/opinion/etc. No, you don't have to read them at all. A title and about 50 words gets put onto the front page, its easy enough to not click the link for the full post, and it says "editorial" at the bottom of the summary, its not hard to ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vice Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 No, you don't have to read them at all.A title and about 50 words gets put onto the front page, its easy enough to not click the link for the full post, and it says "editorial" at the bottom of the summary, its not hard to ignore. To use that logic lets put stories of Puppies being killed and women being raped on the front page. After-all we don't have to read them right so whats the problem? I await my Puppy Killing stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted October 4, 2009 Veteran Share Posted October 4, 2009 To use that logic lets put stories of Puppies being killed and women being raped on the front page. After-all we don't have to read them right so whats the problem?I await my Puppy Killing stories. How do you relate puppy killing stories to editorials about technology? :blink: Neowin would never post such material as a technology-related website, but we do post news, editorials and reviews relating to technology. Corris said you don't have to read these and he is right. You don't have to read them. What is wrong with just passing over them and moving to something that is interesting to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sethos Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 I think we have another luxury-whining case on our hands, making readers move their eyes just a bit more and perhaps scroll the mouse-wheel an extra inch can cause post-traumatic stress and sometimes even lead to permanent brain damage ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerade01 Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share Posted October 4, 2009 Do people not read editorials in newspapers? Those are the opinion of one person being published on a paper....I don't understand what the problem is... Since when are editorials in newspapers on the frontpage? Unless it is a political newspaper (and AFAIK, Neowin isnt that....yet) No, you don't have to read them at all.A title and about 50 words gets put onto the front page, its easy enough to not click the link for the full post, and it says "editorial" at the bottom of the summary, its not hard to ignore. But we have to read the 50 words. Thats enough for someone (in the article I said) to go in and say that the article is wrong and just asking for flamebait from members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corris Veteran Posted October 4, 2009 Veteran Share Posted October 4, 2009 To use that logic lets put stories of Puppies being killed and women being raped on the front page. After-all we don't have to read them right so whats the problem?I await my Puppy Killing stories. I'm not even sure about the logical comparison you have tried to make between Editorials and being forced to read said Editorial in its entirety. What do either of your examples have to do with the Technology related news that does get posted? Not that it matters anyway, it doesn't matter the context of what is posted on the front page, read it or don't read it, it isn't that hard. But we have to read the 50 words. Thats enough for someone (in the article I said) to go in and say that the article is wrong and just asking for flamebait from members. You don't have to read anything, no one is forcing you to come here in the first place so that you are being creuly mistreated into reading a couple of words. Looking at just the section its been posted in should be enough, it says "Editorial" underneath the title and summery, you don't have to read everything that comes before it, its not hard to ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ji@nBing Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 I don't really care either way. If there is something on the frontpage that doesn't interest me, I just don't read it. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerade01 Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share Posted October 4, 2009 Looking at just the section its been posted in should be enough, it says "Editorial" underneath the title and summery, you don't have to read everything that comes before it, its not hard to ignore it. So wait....You are telling me that I have to read Neowin backwards? From the bottom of the page to the top? Because in order to see if it is a Editorial, I have to first go thru the title and the summary. Um...do you read what you post or did you want to post that? :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sethos Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 So wait....You are telling me that I have to read Neowin backwards? From the bottom of the page to the top? Because in order to see if it is a Editorial, I have to first go thru the title and the summary.Um...do you read what you post or did you want to post that? :laugh: Do you also read every single piece of information, ad, line, sticky thread, member name every time a new thread pops up on the forum, before you are able to read the title of this new thread? Stop being so obtuse and lazy, glance at the bottom of an article snippet so see what section it's posted it and then IGNORE IT! Jeez, some people are difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPDL Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 I just don't think it's proper for any news site or newspaper to have editorials on the front page, it's uncommon. I don't find it neutral enough for my tastes. Even though it says "Editorial:" next to the title it still feels like the site is giving importance to the particular article. It feels like the author's opinion is being "published" and not just "shared". Theres no real arguing about it, really, that's just the way I perceive it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkaic Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I think we have another luxury-whining case on our hands, making readers move their eyes just a bit more and perhaps scroll the mouse-wheel an extra inch can cause post-traumatic stress and sometimes even lead to permanent brain damage ... lol, however right on! Do you also read every single piece of information, ad, line, sticky thread, member name every time a new thread pops up on the forum, before you are able to read the title of this new thread? Stop being so obtuse and lazy, glance at the bottom of an article snippet so see what section it's posted it and then IGNORE IT! Jeez, some people are difficult. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockz Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I don't see a problem with news reporters or editors writing editorials and posting them to the front page, as long as they are clearly labelled as "Editorial" (which they currently are).I think it's a nice change to read an opinion piece every now and then, rather than just news all the time. Editorials also provide a great base for discussion, the only problem is... a lot of our members seem set on bashing the reporter and their opinion rather than discussing it and bringing up points as to why they disagree with it. Often, members will make pointless comments like "why is this on the front page?", "this isn't news, it is an opinion", "this is flame-bait." Yes, it is an opinion because it is an editorial - an editorial is an opinion piece. No, it is not flame-bait. Reporters and editors would never post flame-bait. The main reason people called Brad's editorial flame-bait was because it didn't consider every single product Microsoft had ever released :blink: How ridiculous. It is one person's analysis of the situation - it's not going to include every single issue/factor, it is up to the members to join in and participate in a meaningful discussion bringing up points like "the author of the article didn't seem to touch on Microsoft's success with the Xbox 360. I think this alone shows that Microsoft can still be a dominant force in certain markets," not "this is flame-bait, the author is an idiot - he didn't include the Xbox's success in his article, bwahahah." See the difference? So, to conclude, I don't think it's the editorials being posted which is the problem, I think it is the reaction of some of our members and it's quite disappointing to me. Exactly, couldn't have said it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckboii Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 I think we have another luxury-whining case on our hands, making readers move their eyes just a bit more and perhaps scroll the mouse-wheel an extra inch can cause post-traumatic stress and sometimes even lead to permanent brain damage ... LOL ya, I dont mind either way. It's easy, dont click it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 But you HAVE to read them because they are frontpage.... You have to? Why, you have OCD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhapimp Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 is someone pointing an gun to your head and forcing read the front i haven't even been to the front page in ages bookmark this https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?act=...amp;CODE=getnew https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php? simple you don't have to be here also if someone is pointing a gun to your head make an please someone call the police thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Veteran Posted October 5, 2009 Veteran Share Posted October 5, 2009 I think editorials should represent the publication's view (in this case, Neowin's) and not just one single member's. The article in question is more appropriately placed in an Opinion section. It does, after all, depend on the staff because this is their site. They decide how it should be. That's not how editorials work. An editorial is an editor's opinion. :) So wait....You are telling me that I have to read Neowin backwards? From the bottom of the page to the top? Because in order to see if it is a Editorial, I have to first go thru the title and the summary.Um...do you read what you post or did you want to post that? :laugh: There is a banner at the top of every front page news article with a logo and the category of the article. Editorials have a custom Neowin "Editorial" badge and say "EDITORIAL" after the badge. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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