Minifig Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I bring you Neowin's first philosophical gaming thread. In twelve hours of a day we often try to do many things: We define ourselves by our job (position, knowledge/skill level, purpose) We establish a group of friends (belonging, useful, respected, love/loved) We prove ourselves (competence, esteem, confidence, respect) We grow intellectually and emotionally (knowledge, skills, relationships) We define feedback and power relationships that tell us who we are (our place, position, importance) Many people have these same resources outside of their work environment. They have professional groups, civic groups, friendships, clubs, extended family, religious groups, etc. But a growing number of people have defined themselves by their career and have very little else except their immediate family. Paraphrased from here. ---- Reasoning this, would the same apply to the characters we choose in games reflect our personality as well? I've been noticing this playing games for as long as I have.. (I've been playing games since I was about four years old perhaps even longer).. The characters we choose when "playing" reflect our "real" personality. Examples from my life: When I was a kid, I never ever wanted to be Cyclops (Scott Summers) when I was playing X-Men on the playground in school with my friends. I always thought that being the self tagged "leader" of the X-Men would be too much work and he wasn't cool. Instead, I always adopted the personality of Nightcrawler. Why? Nightcrawler was born different. I knew I was different as a kid (I'm a high functioning autistic, meaning I appear normal, but I have difficulty in the social world with things that the normal person doesn't).. he was quiet... I'm extremely quiet unless I feel the need to express my opinion. Nightcrawler could always -disappear-, something I've always envied.. the ability to just get lost and reappear at will. Nightcrawler's faith and loyalty is intensely strong. Those who know me in real life know that my faith in things and loyalty to my friends is unparalleled. (My house and phone numbers are always open and always on, if they need a place to stay or a person to talk to.) When choosing a "class" to play in games, I'm always fond of the classes that are in the for front of battle, or in the distance, and have either a companion or have a multiple class roll. Examples: I was a Dragoon in Final Fantasy 11 because of the pet, and because they were ranged. I loved the pet to death. In WoW, I'm a Death Knight until expansion because I don't have anyone to level with on my Druid (which is 66), but I still can tank and DPS, up close and personal. Deep in my heart, I miss my druid like you wouldn't believe. As soon as Cataclysm comes out, I'll be rolling a Worgen druid, and my death knight will be my raiding character and my money maker so that my worgen has enough money flow that he can support himself. I enjoy hunters too.. now, on the flip side: Mages and casters bother me. They're too far from the action, and they're too focused in what they do. I have to be within the action otherwise I feel like I'm missing an integral part of the action and I feel like I'm not a "part" of the team. I play a Druid in paper D&D 3.5 because I like the versatility of the class and the ability to do pretty much anything my group needs me to do. -- On the flip side of things. My best friend, Kurt, adores Casters. Cannot stand melee. What kind of person is he in real life? Close minded (to a fault.. but he admits it, so it's okay.), stand offish, very quiet, and extremely introverted. He can't play a melee character at all, even characters who use magic but are primary melee. Things like Paladins drive him mad because they're too "up close and personal". ---- Starting to get the concept? How about you? Take a look back through your gaming character choices and your "imagination" choices when you were a kid. Were / are they reflections of your real personality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justmike Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 This could turn into a WoW topic.. :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minifig Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 This could turn into a WoW topic.. :unsure: I will see to it myself that it doesn't, care to add something to the discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted October 20, 2009 Veteran Share Posted October 20, 2009 First we need to reach an agreement about other debate: Personality is not just a behavioral reference. It's composed by other, more complex, elements. You can behave like a law abiding citizen but be a misanthropist. What I'm, trying to say here is that one element of our daily life is unable to reflect on its own our true personality. Games like KOTOR, Never Winter Nights, Deus Ex, or any other game that lets you take moral decisions reflect only your ideals, either romantic or realistic. Some serial killers do not find joy in their acts, they feel guilty and know they are doing wrong, yet they cant stop themselves, here again we see the dichotomy between thought and behavior. I know my example is a little extreme, but these kind of poles reflect more clearly my point, however there are common cases in our society, cases that even have a reference in our common language, like "Double Standards". So far I'm inclined to say "No", a game cant (as well as any individual aspect in our life cant) reflect our personality, not as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hammond Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 In some ways yes, i almost always create characters that have a look how i would want my ideal partner to look like (yes i know its a game i dont want to get into all the eww you fancy pixels nonsense) I always play games as how if i was in the position the character is i would make the choices i would make in real life, i find it very difficult to play the bad choices and i almost always switch back to good choices as its a reflection of my character and set of morals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMELTN Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 My best friend, Kurt, adores Casters. Cannot stand melee. What kind of person is he in real life? Close minded (to a fault.. but he admits it, so it's okay.), stand offish, very quiet, and extremely introverted.He can't play a melee character at all, even characters who use magic but are primary melee. Things like Paladins drive him mad because they're too "up close and personal". I can't stand melee, and have always played a caster class. But for its because I want to see everything going on, and I am a natural born leader. I enjoy people, but I want to be by myself at times... I could say more, but way to busy at work today, so will post more later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minifig Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 Games like KOTOR, Never Winter Nights, Deus Ex, or any other game that lets you take moral decisions reflect only your ideals, either romantic or realistic. Some serial killers do not find joy in their acts, they feel guilty and know they are doing wrong, yet they cant stop themselves, here again we see the dichotomy between thought and behavior. I know my example is a little extreme, but these kind of poles reflect more clearly my point, however there are common cases in our society, cases that even have a reference in our common language, like "Double Standards". I'm going to have to say that you can't exactly use a serial killer as an example because the "real world" has laws that can be broken. Video games have laws that can't be broken..like.. you can't go past X wall because the world won't let you. In the real world, if a serial killer breaks a law, they get caught, they goto jail. There are set laws in video games that say you can't do this,... and .. no matter what you do.. you can't do it. Following that chain of thought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neoauld Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 i always make my character with the mindset that "this character is going to be important to me, because ill be spending alot of time on it". Its kind of like a pet, if theres something worng with it itll always bug you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberManifest Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Didn't they determine that personality was based on the differences in synapses in the brain for all exsistance, as shown on www.ted.com ? Specifically, this one... http://www.ted.com/talks/henry_markram_sup..._s_secrets.html Here's something to ponder, maybe it's the reverse, perhaps our personalities evolve around the characters we chose, i.e. they develop into something specific as we take on the character's events, happenings, and circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justmike Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 In some ways yes, i almost always create characters that have a look how i would want my ideal partner to look like (yes i know its a game i dont want to get into all the eww you fancy pixels nonsense)I always play games as how if i was in the position the character is i would make the choices i would make in real life, i find it very difficult to play the bad choices and i almost always switch back to good choices as its a reflection of my character and set of morals. Same here. But I have seen people in WoW become more like players they have created. I do not know if it is something that gives them a type of freedom or what, but I've seen several real people change because of how their toon is perceived by others in the game, and then change again with another toon. Their husbands/wives and kids, yes many whole families play, can attest to the change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted October 20, 2009 Veteran Share Posted October 20, 2009 I'm going to have to say that you can't exactly use a serial killer as an example because the "real world" has laws that can be broken. Video games have laws that can't be broken..like.. you can't go past X wall because the world won't let you. In the real world, if a serial killer breaks a law, they get caught, they goto jail. There are set laws in video games that say you can't do this,... and .. no matter what you do.. you can't do it. Following that chain of thought? Hence why I did the differentiation between romantic and realistic ideals and also why I made clear that personality is not only behavior but also is thought. Limitations are unavoidable, even in our imagination since imagination is nothing else than a complex mental construction of our past experiences, you cant really imagine something you have never seen, if you try what will be pictured in your head will be a collage of other experiences. Since we are always limited in all aspects of our lives (This is the reason why Sartre said everyone is hell) is redundant to consider these limitations, since they are inherent in everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberManifest Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I'm going to have to say that you can't exactly use a serial killer as an example because the "real world" has laws that can be broken. Video games have laws that can't be broken..like.. you can't go past X wall because the world won't let you. In the real world, if a serial killer breaks a law, they get caught, they goto jail. There are set laws in video games that say you can't do this,... and .. no matter what you do.. you can't do it. Following that chain of thought? Enter reverse engineering and hacking to break so called "game laws". Enter prison break / escape. Sometimes where there's a will there is a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minifig Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 Didn't they determine that personality was based on the differences in synapses in the brain for all exsistance, as shown on www.ted.com ? Specifically, this one... http://www.ted.com/talks/henry_markram_sup..._s_secrets.htmlHere's something to ponder, maybe it's the reverse, perhaps our personalities evolve around the characters we chose, i.e. they develop into something specific as we take on the character's events, happenings, and circumstances. I don't think so. I think it's the .. I may be using the wrong word here, but schizophrenics of the situation of which we're trying to impart our imprinted personality upon the objects that we're creating. This book (at least the parts I could read in the preview) seems to imply that more we feel about an object, the more we'll associate with it. What's the best way how to feel an object? Impart part of our own personality into it. Enter reverse engineering and hacking to break so called "game laws".Enter prison break / escape. Sometimes where there's a will there is a way. Those weren't intended by the game-makers, therefore, they can be excluded. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberManifest Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 (edited) I don't think so. I think it's the .. I may be using the wrong word here, but schizophrenics of the situation of which we're trying to impart our imprinted personality upon the objects that we're creating. schizophrenia is the duplexity of dynamical characteristics within an ascertained manifestation actualizing inconsistency of behavior or at least unrecognizable in simple finite patterns. Even schizophrenic is a charactable trait by association. <a href="http://<< spam >>/yhxlt4g" target="_blank">This book</a> (at least the parts I could read in the preview) seems to imply that more we feel about an object, the more we'll associate with it. What's the best way how to feel an object? Impart part of our own personality into it.association by interest of attraction is inevitable hece the "interest" Those weren't intended by the game-makers, therefore, they can be excluded. :) In freedom of choice exclusion need not apply... I used to spend hours playing mario and halo to discover exploits and unintentional development glitches. So while people picked their character based on their personality I was tweaking mine with game genie and/or game shark :) Edited October 20, 2009 by keuka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minifig Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 Yeah, but here in lies the rub. Games were programmed by humans. Humans are flawed. Therefore, games are flawed and can be exploited. If humans could program a -flawless- game, that couldn't be hacked/exploited.. Would the character you chose to play (if it had a system like say, Oblivion's) .. reflect your personality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberManifest Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Yeah, but here in lies the rub.Games were programmed by humans. Humans are flawed. Therefore, games are flawed and can be exploited. If humans could program a -flawless- game, that couldn't be hacked/exploited.. Would the character you chose to play (if it had a system like say, Oblivion's) .. reflect your personality? In an endless world, endless possibilities, can't say what wasn't because it didn't happen, can't say what is because to err is human can't say what will happen as it is yet to be written. All I can say is that it's all relative of perception and acceptance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharp Daddy Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 When i play a game like Halo i do not jump into Master Chiefs shoes at all, when i play WoW i don't jump into my characters shoes at all, in both of these i feel like i'm just controlling a unique character; i find that i very seldom identify myself with a video game character. But i find it very interesting to see people Role Playing in games like WoW; that is the ultimate form of people reflecting themselves in their character. They can act like who they really feel they are, whether it be a orc, or a space commander, or someone short/tall/skinny/large/female/male i think when people play games like MMOs or games where you can create your own character they can use the character as a shell of sorts to act out who they feel they really are. I am insanely tired so no clue if this post is off topic or even comprehensible. So... i feel that characters sometimes reflect out personality; but more so in characters WE create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagisan Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Would the character you chose to play (if it had a system like say, Oblivion's) .. reflect your personality? I always choose the stealthy character, whether that has to do with actual stealth (staying hidden from others) or speed (able to get away from others) or a combination of both. For example, in WoW rogue has been and (I think) always will be my favorite class, I like being able to pick my battles. In TF2 I prefer scout, I will play soldier, pyro, medic, sniper or heavy (the last two mostly for a change of pace) if I have to, but I have over twice the amount of time on scout as I do on any other class. I prefer the speed advantage allowing me to withdraw from fights I know I cannot win (similar to how rogues in WoW can get away from fights more easily than other classes). That being said, I am a very laid back person, I do not get out of the house much (which could explain the staying hidden or getting away from others-style characters), but other than that I am quite lazy so I have no idea how my personality leads to (in the terms of TF2) a preference to play a fast, twitch-aim class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberManifest Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Characterization is like personality disembodiment; you control something outside yourself to cope with the disillusion that you can change or control your personality / self entity. It's more of an aspiration of desires before they manifest in any other form. Why do we play games at all? What's our innate need to entertain and ascertain an alter net reality? Does this analysis stretch to realistic game competitions such as sports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perochan Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 i think so. Im an aggressive type of player and in Warcraft 3 Nightelf is great for aggressive player and so is Starcraft Zerg, which i use Zerg too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenMartian Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I can't stand melee, and have always played a caster class. But for its because I want to see everything going on, and I am a natural born leader. ... Funny you should mention that. Back in the WoW TBC days, I ran a fast-progressing guild (back when progression was still FUN). The people who floated to the top for their leadership skills, and ended up being officers, were mostly "distant" classes. The top spots were a Mage, Hunter, Ele Shaman, Healing Druid, and a Priest. They had plenty other characters, but all settled down and felt most comfortable in these chars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyLarry Veteran Posted October 20, 2009 Veteran Share Posted October 20, 2009 Nope. Not at all in my case. I play games to escape reality more often that not. And I am not saying that like oh my life is so bad I need to escape reality, I mean it as I use them to deviate from the reality around me for entertainment purposes. If anything, I actually tend to stay away from games that let you make any choices anyway, just not my cup of tea, perhaps because they do such a poor job IMO of emulating the reality I am taking a break from to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted October 20, 2009 Subscriber² Share Posted October 20, 2009 I didn't really know how to answer this, all I can really say is in terms of playing a game character I tend to make what I think are favourable choices for my experience, and even although in a black/white good/evil game I'll usually go good first, I don't really overthink anything. Moral choices in games tend to be coated in a fluffy dynamic wrapper of promises, but underneath the wrapper is a static conclusion, or maybe a few static conclusions. It's an illusion of choice more than it is unrivalled depth. One reason I'm so hyped about Heavy Rain is I have a lot of faith of it breaking that mould a little. In terms of my actual character say online, I don't play online too much, but I can honestly say I've never invovled myself in ganking/team killing/annoying people/bringing other peoples game down on purpose/unecessary aggression/pretty much any aggression for that matter/name calling/racism/any bad practice for that matter. I just find all of that stuff immature, and when I game online I tend to do it for fun, I'm not having fun if I'm indulging in any of the above drama. I think that's a respectable attitude to have, but I do not have any agendas to push it on other people, game how you want, you just won't find me with you if you frequent in any of the above categories. Gaming is a stress reliever for me, not a stress inducer, which might explain why I tend to gravitate towards SP more than MP in the first place, I cannot for the life of me be bothered with online drama, something you find fairly frequently on the consoles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusuf M. Veteran Posted October 20, 2009 Veteran Share Posted October 20, 2009 I'd say yes and no. There are games like Half-Life and Halo that don't give you a choice of who to play. In that case, you're locked into multiple or single characters to play as. However, it's games like Mass Effect and World of Warcraft that give you a choice on who to play as by offering you a multitude of character-changing options (appearance, skill set, etc). That's not the whole picture though. Although your personality can easily ? but not necessarily ? affect how you create and customize your character, it can also affect your play-style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hani Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Yeah, but here in lies the rub.Games were programmed by humans. Humans are flawed. Therefore, games are flawed and can be exploited. If humans could program a -flawless- game, that couldn't be hacked/exploited.. Would the character you chose to play (if it had a system like say, Oblivion's) .. reflect your personality? No. Most people play games to escape their mundane lives. I've enjoyed squashing pedestrians in GTA, it doesn't mean I'd do the same in real life. If anything, the characters we create reflect what we want to change about our personality and appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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