+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted October 24, 2009 Subscriber² Share Posted October 24, 2009 The 360 has a "card reader" already though. How else do the memory cards/units work? Expenses aren't higher at all now are they? W/E the case, I don't think moves will move off disc soon, infact I think movies will be moving to digital distro faster than games do. But that's movies, games like to follow a different cycle, they also don't require as much space in most cases. Did you look at how much MS charge for those memory units alone? $30 That's for 512mb. Flash memory for mainstream games has to be one of the worst ideas I've ever seen considering the option of cheap discs next generation with a current capacity of 50GB and expanding. You can harp on about digital distribution for movies all you want but I'm not touching a film for purchase from either PSN or XBL till there is no ridiculous DRM. Both companies are pushing to make the consoles all in one devices under your TV, the next Xbox is hardly going to be that if it doesn't even support the basic mainstream HD format. It'll be as bad as Nintendo shipping the Wii without DVD support. If you've just conceded movies aren't moving away from discs any time soon, why wouldn't MS kill two birds with one stone and use a Blu Ray drive? I'm completely failing to understand why from a consumer point of view you think MS need to put R&D into some wild idea of putting their next generation systems games on flash memory? Sony will obviously use Blu Ray, Nintendo might even, if they don't release an underpowered system that can get by on DVDs, but they sure as heck ain't moving off optical media. So that leaves MS to do something radically different from everyone else and have publishers who've currently been pressing their games onto optical media for the last decade to have to do things different just for the next Xbox. Flash memory is useful primarily for storage, for being read AND written to, games only need to be read from, therefore it's cheaper to use optical media. You see it on storage accessories like memory cards, or digital devices only like the PSPGo, the iPhone, but it's not going to be used in home consoles for supplying games. The DS uses cartridges, but portable gaming platforms have used cartridges for decades, what else is small enough? (CDs/DVDs aren't - Sony tried to make them small enough, UMD, but we know how that went). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George P Global Moderator Posted October 24, 2009 Global Moderator Share Posted October 24, 2009 Did you look at how much MS charge for those memory units alone?$30 That's for 512mb. Flash memory for mainstream games has to be one of the worst ideas I've ever seen considering the option of cheap discs next generation with a current capacity of 50GB and expanding. You can harp on about digital distribution for movies all you want but I'm not touching a film for purchase from either PSN or XBL till there is no ridiculous DRM. Both companies are pushing to make the consoles all in one devices under your TV, the next Xbox is hardly going to be that if it doesn't even support the basic mainstream HD format. It'll be as bad as Nintendo shipping the Wii without DVD support. If you've just conceded movies aren't moving away from discs any time soon, why wouldn't MS kill two birds with one stone and use a Blu Ray drive? I'm completely failing to understand why from a consumer point of view you think MS need to put R&D into some wild idea of putting their next generation systems games on flash memory? Sony will obviously use Blu Ray, Nintendo might even, if they don't release an underpowered system that can get by on DVDs, but they sure as heck ain't moving off optical media. So that leaves MS to do something radically different from everyone else and have publishers who've currently been pressing their games onto optical media for the last decade to have to do things different just for the next Xbox. Flash memory is useful primarily for storage, for being read AND written to, games only need to be read from, therefore it's cheaper to use optical media. You see it on storage accessories like memory cards, or digital devices only like the PSPGo, the iPhone, but it's not going to be used in home consoles for supplying games. The DS uses cartridges, but portable gaming platforms have used cartridges for decades, what else is small enough? (CDs/DVDs aren't - Sony tried to make them small enough, UMD, but we know how that went). We all know memory units are marked up to a high level regardless of end manufacturing costs. Didn't we go over this in another topic already? I think it's silly to use the current prices as a base for something that's not needed and also marked up like crazy. I was using them as an example of how the 360 already has a card reader and that doesn't jack up costs at all, as a counter to your previous argument that it would or that it'd be a design misfire even though, and this is true for other systems in the past as well, it's always had a card reader from the get go. Moving off of optical media has benefits in the long run, not that I think they will next-gen, time and again I said I'm looking at HVDs as the next gen optical format, not SD, yet in the end I think flash will win along with digital distro. Why? The less moving parts the better, and also size and power draw. As we all know optical drives are one of the first things to give out on consoles. They make noise from spinning, they take up loads of space, make heat and use up way more power. Does that mean I personally think flash based systems are coming next gen? No, but at some point? Yes. Either way with SSD being used more, phones using more, the price of flash chips can only go one way, and that's down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g~man Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 after a quick google search: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/07/15/sa...itches_sd_worm/ http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/01/10/warne...es-on-sd-cards/ (read the comments, i wouldnt start a bluray movie collection if u havent started already) :whistle: and audioboxers main argument is price werent cd's more expensive than tapes? werent dvd's more expensive than vhs? isnt bluray more expensive than dvd's? i wish i had the flux capacitor right now... 2012 would be my 1st stop lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted October 26, 2009 Subscriber² Share Posted October 26, 2009 after a quick google search:http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/07/15/sa...itches_sd_worm/ http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/01/10/warne...es-on-sd-cards/ (read the comments, i wouldnt start a bluray movie collection if u havent started already) :whistle: and audioboxers main argument is price werent cd's more expensive than tapes? werent dvd's more expensive than vhs? isnt bluray more expensive than dvd's? i wish i had the flux capacitor right now... 2012 would be my 1st stop lol Actually reading your articles might be a good idea :rolleyes: The bad news is that only standard definition titles are going to be set loose to devices or SD cards. That standard def limitation is a whine, we know -- we like where this is headed. VHS/Tapes? When were games ever going to be put onto these? :laugh: Blu Ray will be cheaper than flash memory, economics 101 tells you the older something gets, and the more popular and mainstream something becomes the cheaper it tends to get. Blu Ray disc sales will increase YOY as more people buy players, and players are already down in price by great margins. The PS3 is even down from $599 to $299. Optical media, aka the discs, always get dirt cheap, it's the readers that take a little longer to drop. But you fight for your SD card games reader in your next Xbox so you can't play HD movies, you can't play Xbox titles, and you can't read anything burned to a DVD like music/video or pictures. Sounds like a better idea to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g~man Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Blu Ray will be cheaper than flash memory, economics 101 tells you the older something gets, and the more popular and mainstream something becomes the cheaper it tends to get. Blu Ray disc sales will increase YOY as more people buy players, and players are already down in price by great margins. The PS3 is even down from $599 to $299. Optical media, aka the discs, always get dirt cheap, it's the readers that take a little longer to drop. so u gonna ignore the "we like where this is headed" comment at the end? bluray players could be ?5 in 2012... but how about sd card readers being 3p? a lot of tv's already have sd card readers, even your phone got one.... imagine buying a hd movie on sd card and watching it on your zune hd or phone.... this is what advancing technology is all about... not spinning discs, hell, even dj's dont spin discs no more lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted October 26, 2009 Subscriber² Share Posted October 26, 2009 so u gonna ignore the "we like where this is headed" comment at the end?bluray players could be ?5 in 2012... but how about sd card readers being 3p? a lot of tv's already have sd card readers, even your phone got one.... imagine buying a hd movie on sd card and watching it on your zune hd or phone.... this is what advancing technology is all about... not spinning discs, hell, even dj's dont spin discs no more lol As anecdotal evidence of HD movies on SD cards? Yes, I am going to ignore it, it's a journalist throwing out a wish. You don't just buy a SD card reader and hook it up to a TV, you daft? What decodes the audio, what decodes the video? Buy a Blu Ray player and you can hook it up to any HDTV, heck even an SDTV, you're pushing new technology again and saying things like "some" HDTVs have card readers. New technology takes time to uptake, people aren't investing in the only physical HD format, Blu Ray, over the next few years then ditching it on mass because a card reader comes out. The PS4/Next Xbox are being made right now, MS are not going to take a risk as large as games on SD cards when there is currently absolutely no concrete evidence of that coming about for movies or even having any success. I'm done with this argument, I'll pick my pay cheque up at E3 2011, or 2012. You asked me to focus on a journalist comment, I'll ask you why you ignored all the negatives I listed about MS not having a disc based reader in the next Xbox, most importantly BC for all of you that torched Sony over it. You can't deny the 360 is building up a good library this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g~man Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 2 of the biggest movie giants signed up to movies on sd cards... they will probably try to milk u for every bluray sale before they announce hd movies on sd whats holding back hd movies on sd cards in your opinion? its definately not studio support because these studios would like to sell their movies on as many formats as possible, its definately not capacity because sd cards can hold more gb's than bluray but anyway, lets leave this argument here, its just based on speculation see u in 2012 :pint: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthmahon Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I'm not sure Microsoft are going to do this to be honest. The only benefit I can see is that it stops the PS3 from marketing themselves as Blu-Ray only console, but I don't think it is enough for people to stop purchasing the PS3 unless they price it VERy competitively and they aren't going to do that and take a loss, they learnt from Xbox 1 that you can't do that for a long time and have a sustainable business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted October 26, 2009 Subscriber² Share Posted October 26, 2009 2 of the biggest movie giants signed up to movies on sd cards... they will probably try to milk u for every bluray sale before they announce hd movies on sdwhats holding back hd movies on sd cards in your opinion? its definately not studio support because these studios would like to sell their movies on as many formats as possible, its definately not capacity because sd cards can hold more gb's than bluray but anyway, lets leave this argument here, its just based on speculation see u in 2012 :pint: 25GB Blu Ray disc, consumer price, ?5.79 32GB SD Card, consumer price, ?70 Flash memorwill not be cheaperb> than optical media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justmike Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I?m just not a big blue ray fan myself. My TV is in a rather large room, and I can hardly see the difference on a 50 inch TV from over 10 feet away. I am happy with renting my regular DVD?s for now. I really believe that another solid state or net driven alternative will take over before Blue Ray really gets big. Most of my friends have so many DVD?s that they just cannot start over. They feel like buy buying BR they are dooming their DVD collections that much faster. I never really started collecting anything in a great amount, but seeing how this is playing out I am less likely to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OOOOOOOO Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 only the last paragraph is relevant to my argumentdiscs have had a good run, but its over next gen... 3yrs is a long time from now and discs are already looking outdated and why cant hd movies come on sd cards or similar storage devices? whut? BluRay movies from a high quality encoded disc are far better quality at 1080p than any downloadable Netflix film. Sorry but no Way will drives be out next gen. That's the shortest sight view I've read in a VERY long time. Downloading 50gb will take forever even in three years on millions of people's internet. My internet connection here is running and topping out at a 2mbps connection When I know people on 50. I'm still on 2 and I 100% guarantee you in three years, when I've left here, this house will still be on 2. Reason? Phone lines. Our phone lines are crap and need a serious overhaul. Our exchanges etc ... all of it ... and no way in hell will our phone company invest into that in three years or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrCheese Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I think it's funny how Major Nelson tried to talk it away as "he was talking about PC add-ons" I mean seriously, how can he expect anyone to believe that? The interview was about the xbox 360. If they are going to deny it, deny it properly and say that he was misinformed, don't outright BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justmike Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Well, it's the amout of people who care about having 1080p on thier (what would you say the average TV size out there is 32"/42") TV. If there is not a big enough market for any reason, it may not last. If something comes out that is in some way more convenient for most people, and that looks somewhat better than a DVD, I can see that overtaking Blue Ray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g~man Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 whut?BluRay movies from a high quality encoded disc are far better quality at 1080p than any downloadable Netflix film. Sorry but no Way will drives be out next gen. That's the shortest sight view I've read in a VERY long time. Downloading 50gb will take forever even in three years on millions of people's internet. My internet connection here is running and topping out at a 2mbps connection When I know people on 50. I'm still on 2 and I 100% guarantee you in three years, when I've left here, this house will still be on 2. Reason? Phone lines. Our phone lines are crap and need a serious overhaul. Our exchanges etc ... all of it ... and no way in hell will our phone company invest into that in three years or less. i dont know why the hell u quoted me lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George P Global Moderator Posted October 26, 2009 Global Moderator Share Posted October 26, 2009 Well, it's the amout of people who care about having 1080p on thier (what would you say the average TV size out there is 32"/42") TV. If there is not a big enough market for any reason, it may not last. If something comes out that is in some way more convenient for most people, and that looks somewhat better than a DVD, I can see that overtaking Blue Ray. Bluray will need to be replaced or updated once everyone decides it's time to go over 1080p. Lots of TV's out now can, and everyone knows monitors can as well, hell 1600p could be the next "FullHD" number being kicked out. Right now though tv makers are just pushing the hz battle with 200hz tv's and LED is coming into play to replace LCDs, which is nice. I dunno if they can update bluray to work at 1600p, but if not, then it's run would be over pretty quick. You have to understand that TV makers, media companies and everyone else would just love to sell you the next new format in 3-4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ji@nBing Posted October 26, 2009 Author Share Posted October 26, 2009 Guaranteed there will be Blu-Ray in the next 360, or some other propriety HD disk for games. I don't see them going all digital yet, and it's just much more economical to go with a disk based drive over something flash based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin.B Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 http://www.gamerzines.com/xbox-360/news/no...r-xbox-360.html "During an interview yesterday, Steve Ballmer was asked about Blu-Ray and the Xbox 360", said Hryb."I wanted to clear something up. Steve was referring to Blu-Ray accessories for the PC. As we have said in the past, we have no plans to introduce a Blu-Ray drive for the Xbox 360. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts