Switching to Mac.


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What kind of laptop are you going for?

With an HP envy 15" for $1800 you get a:

Core i7 720M (quad-core)

Radeon 4830 graphics card (very respectable)

It also looks well... like a MacBook (that's the idea if that's what you want)

With a MacBook pro, if you choose the $1999 option you'll get a:

Core 2 Duo

Geforce 9600 GT graphics

Both key components of the HP are one generation ahead of the MacBook, infact I'd say the Mac's 9600M is 1.5-2 generations behind the 4830, the 4830 is much more pleasant overall for gaming.

Hp Envy: http://www.hp.com/united-states/campaigns/envy/buy.html

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Been running Windows 7 Beta, Rc100 and all were running good with Bootcamp. Both virtualbox and vmware fusion support Windows 7. The snow leopard bootcamp now allows you to see your Mac drive from Windows (including windows 7). And your Bootcamp drive is loaded as a read only drive in Mac OS. That finally made everything click.

I switched to a mac about 2 years and really enjoyed it. A lot of technologies - Java, SVN, Mercurial, Perl, Python were cross platform so wasn't too affected. Mostly because the machine takes about 30s to 1 min to boot so you can quickly check mail, news. It shutdowns in 5-10 secs... Also I put in 4GB of Ram and started Snow Leopard in 64 bit. No issues with any software whatsoever.

I also like the ecosystem of an application in a Mac. Installing an app is drag-drop into applications. If it needs to write preferences, its in the Library Folder. If it installs an extension for the "Control Panel". Its in the Library folder too. So very easy to clean up. The annoying thing for Windows was that an application may p**p everywhere. Registry, Program Files/Common, Application Data, too many things..

But if I needed to install some very experimental technology or work with Visual Studio, I would start VMWare Fusion, take a snapshot of Windows XP and then develop away. Once code has been backed up or committed, just restored the snapshot. The issue is as a developer one installs many softwares or makes so many changes that 6 months down the line the OS slows down, so I like the Virtualization approach :) .Easy to destroy and easy to recover.

The annoying thing was in Windows you use ctrl-c, ctrl-v, ctrl-a. In Mac its cmd-c, cmd-v,cmd-a. The inability to maximise windows was frustrating for about a month. Including the font smoothing that appeared crisp in Windows and a bit fuzzy on the Mac.

I have to say after reading many "should I buy a Mac threads" your response was probally the best I have read from a pro apple angle ( it is a very well thought, level headed, non fanboi sounding one) :)

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Sounds like you've already made up your mind, and just came here to get some reassurance on your choice.

For your needs, a PC would be better. Period. But if you're dead-set on getting an Apple, then do it. Just make sure you get at least a Macbook Pro. The Macbooks are, quite frankly, ****.

Not really. I've never actually owned one before and I just need to know if it's worth it. Plus, I'll probably do most of the work at home, I just need something I can take with me, and not just to college, I have a life, you know. As I said before, during the next semesters, I'll be working on different projects, some of them are graphics related, others, web design/development.

I'm not going to get into an argument about overpriced hardware but you get the full package with Apple. Their laptops are leading, not only with good specs inside but the way they are designed and built. Sure you can get equally great specs with a Dell, HP, whatever, but I can't stand their cheap plastic, two-tone cases, cheap latches, hinges, ect. They are built to cut costs and save money. Apple's are strong and durable and whether you hate Apple or not, they are quite nice to look at.

My main reason for suggesting an Apple is because you get the best of both worlds. Run windows side by side mac or boot it solo. While you can try running osx on a regular pc, support is crap and it doesn't run nearly as nice. Windows on the other hand, runs incredible on a mac, no issues there. The screens are also really nice with exceptional resolution which not often found in laptops.

Hardware aside, I'd do it just for OSX, I love everything about the OS. Sure it has its faults but the pros far outweigh the cons. Same reason you wanted the iPhone, it's about the user experience. If you're going to use a computer every day, shouldn't you enjoy it? As for Windows 7, it runs fine. I have it installed on my iMac. Apple hasn't officially released drivers for it but you can get away with Vista one's. One last thing is resale value. Mac's have a significantly higher resale value than your average pc. If you don't like it. Sell it.

Exactly what I was thinking. I don't need a high-end laptop and I can still switch to Windows whenever I need it, I already have a pretty decent desktop PC at home. Buy an iMac, now that I won't do.

Been running Windows 7 Beta, Rc100 and all were running good with Bootcamp. Both virtualbox and vmware fusion support Windows 7. The snow leopard bootcamp now allows you to see your Mac drive from Windows (including windows 7). And your Bootcamp drive is loaded as a read only drive in Mac OS. That finally made everything click.

I switched to a mac about 2 years and really enjoyed it. A lot of technologies - Java, SVN, Mercurial, Perl, Python were cross platform so wasn't too affected. Mostly because the machine takes about 30s to 1 min to boot so you can quickly check mail, news. It shutdowns in 5-10 secs... Also I put in 4GB of Ram and started Snow Leopard in 64 bit. No issues with any software whatsoever.

I also like the ecosystem of an application in a Mac. Installing an app is drag-drop into applications. If it needs to write preferences, its in the Library Folder. If it installs an extension for the "Control Panel". Its in the Library folder too. So very easy to clean up. The annoying thing for Windows was that an application may p**p everywhere. Registry, Program Files/Common, Application Data, too many things..

But if I needed to install some very experimental technology or work with Visual Studio, I would start VMWare Fusion, take a snapshot of Windows XP and then develop away. Once code has been backed up or committed, just restored the snapshot. The issue is as a developer one installs many softwares or makes so many changes that 6 months down the line the OS slows down, so I like the Virtualization approach :) .Easy to destroy and easy to recover.

The annoying thing was in Windows you use ctrl-c, ctrl-v, ctrl-a. In Mac its cmd-c, cmd-v,cmd-a. The inability to maximise windows was frustrating for about a month. Including the font smoothing that appeared crisp in Windows and a bit fuzzy on the Mac.

One of the best replies, thanks!

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macbook-discoloration.jpg

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=macboo...&FORM=BIFD#

Yeah. Just beautiful. Sure is a good thing not all Apple laptops are this high-quality plastic, right? And so great to look at. :rolleyes:

Like I said before OP, get a Pro if you get a Mac, since the base MacBooks are garbage, and make sure you get Applecare. Otherwise you'll get raped on repairs on these "high-quality" pieces of kit.

I was referring to the aluminum MacBook's in my post, but the latest revision of the white one's has a similar enclosure. Also a like giga said that has been corrected since then. Besides, you can clean them too. Kind of ignorant to assume you never have to clean a product to keep it spotless.

I will agree with him that a pro would be best, even if its the cheapest one. However you have a full year to purchase AppleCare, I'd hold off until your positive you want to keep it. While some repairs can be costly without warranty I have yet to actually pay one. 6-7 months ago my iMac screen died. I took it in, the lcd replacement would normally cost $1300 but I was able to talk her into attempting the repair for free as I didn't think it was the lcd. They tried for a week or 2 replacing different pieces. I told them I needed it for work and couldn't keep waiting. So they decided it would be easier to just give me a brand new one. Matched the specs (little better than my original) and best of all, didn't cost me a dime. Can't say many others would do the same. Also goes for iPhone's I've gotten mine replaced once, and helped 3-4 of my friends get theirs replaced for free. Their customer service is quite good, not sure why some people choose to bitch about it.

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I'm considering switching to Macs, need a new laptop for college, so I can work on projects and stuff. I'll be using Visual Basic/SQL Server a lot so, does Bootcamp support Windows 7 yet? I'll also be using it for casual gaming, so it should have a decent graphics card, which I can also use with OpenCL.

I know I can just go to their website and look around but the question is, is switching to Mac really worth it? I mean, I know that most of the stuff I'll be working with require Windows and that Apple hardware is really overpriced but let's face it, they know how to make people want to buy their stuff; the little details that make their laptops stand out.

Any recommendations?

So hold on.. let me get this straight..

You want to code in Microsoft's Visual Basic, use Microsoft's SQL Server and play games...

Why are you considering a Mac again? I mean, you'll obviously spend more time in Windows on it then in OSX, especially since if you want to get serious you would have to at least use Visual Studio Express which is again from Microsoft.

Plus, if you do coding, having a PC laptop like Dell 15" or 16" which allows you 1920x1200 resolution will give you a lot of real-estate and you will actually need it bad once you start coding plus you'll get higher resolution in games too. Not to mention it will be cheaper.

I mean, not saying you what to do or how to spend money, but I just don't see what you would need a Mac. You want to run like iMovie and iPhoto? Everything you will be using it for is not available on a Mac or in case of games pretty poor as far as selection goes.

For a Mac Book Pro you will not only pay A LOT more than even better configured Dell XPS 16 for example (with Blu-ray) and with Dell you will get 3 year warranty for free if you call them while you'll pay additional $250 for Apple Care. You might even get full Office like I did if you catch them in promotional period.

Another issue is that I always had stability problems in Windows with Apple's Bootcamp drivers. I mean it worked, but it was always something. either my system was slowing down mysteriously or I had sound issues or something.

Is Mac appearance and just using Apple's UI that much worth to you?

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yeah.... considering your going to be spending 90% of your time using Windows applications anyway, aside from the sexyness of the hardware design there is no real need for you to blow your money on a Mac. Is the nice looking hardware really worth it? If you need a real workhorse for College, this should be the last consideration.

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Why are you considering a Mac again?

In college especially, Macs, like most apple products, are status symbols.

Is Mac appearance and just using Apple's UI that much worth to you?

That's why most people buy it. You think all those cute girls in your anthropology class are hacking away in xcode, compiling some fink apps, or have ever so much as opened Terminal? Maybe you think they have bootcamp installed or are running VMWare fusion in unity mode? No, they're doing what everyone without macs is doing - chatting it up on social networking sites while loading songs on their ipod.

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Dell XPS 16 is SEX.. I LOVE IT.. and it's now using new i7 CPUs 720QM and 820QM that are equivalent to 2.8ghz and 3.06ghz with Blu-ray drive, 500gb 7200 rpm hdd, backlit keyboard and ATI RADEON? HD 4670 ? 1GB, HDMI out and 2yr warranty standard. They usually give 3 for free.. but it's $100 extra at this moment but if you call them they'll include it for free guaranteed. Total is like $2k for 16" and like $1599 i think for 15.6" XPS.

It's a beauty:

3232263134_6f8e325b51.jpg

and I've had Mac Book Pro a while back and I would never get it again unless I need a portable solution to work on iphone apps. That's the ONLY reason I would even consider a Mac laptop for.

Edited by Boz
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Dell XPS 16 is SEX

I think it's hinges are nasty looking :p That and for some reason, All of Dell's consumer laptops insist on having horrible glossy screens, something that at least Apple have learnt a lot of people don't want.

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@echo on:

Based on what you want to do with your computer you should just get a PC. I'd recommend a Dell Studio Notebook.

The Studio XPS 16 impressed me a bit. I got a chance to play with it when setting it up for a client; very fast and good build quality. I like it better (and so does my client) than the MBP (month old) that it replaced. I would recommend going to Dell.com and specing one out to meet your budget.

EDIT: BOZ, I didn't even read your comment until after I posted. You're right, "sex" does describe this laptop. I wish I could afford one.... maybe next year.

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I think it's hinges are nasty looking :p That and for some reason, All of Dell's consumer laptops insist on having horrible glossy screens, something that at least Apple have learnt a lot of people don't want.

I actually like those hingies..gives me like industrial feel.. but i guess it's subjective.. I think it looks slick.. and I didn't really notice the glare from their screen cause the screen is beautiful. Maybe I'm not sitting outside a lot, but to be honest, Apple charges you for non-glossy screen.. so it kind of sucks there too.. I mean they charge you for upgrading to 7200rpm drive, they charge you for matte screen, they charge you for this and that and in the end you have to pay like $30 to get that MDP->DVI adapter.. I mean, that's one of the reasons I'm not buying stuff from them anymore.. they charge for freakin' everything and make hardware so they can charge you. But let's not get into bashing.

The reality is that OP will be better of with a PC laptop because he will be using like everything that's on Windows, so paying extra for looks I guess doesn't seem logical.

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The reality is that OP will be better of with a PC laptop...

Will be better off with some PC laptop that is known to be OS X compatible. That would be a wise choice.

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I actually like those hingies..gives me like industrial feel.. but i guess it's subjective.. I think it looks slick.. and I didn't really notice the glare from their screen cause the screen is beautiful. Maybe I'm not sitting outside a lot, but to be honest, Apple charges you for non-glossy screen.. so it kind of sucks there too.. I mean they charge you for upgrading to 7200rpm drive, they charge you for matte screen, they charge you for this and that and in the end you have to pay like $30 to get that MDP->DVI adapter.. I mean, that's one of the reasons I'm not buying stuff from them anymore.. they charge for freakin' everything and make hardware so they can charge you. But let's not get into bashing.

The reality is that OP will be better of with a PC laptop because he will be using like everything that's on Windows, so paying extra for looks I guess doesn't seem logical.

what industrial feel?

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Dell's latest machines (Studio, Studio XPS and the XPS in the picture above) are all really good and you get a lot for the low price you pay. Dell support is top-notch, as there are always many people with the same laptop if you have a problem the chance someone else fixed it before you is quite high. Also, build quality on Dell is awesome.

Also, they have the i7's and DDR3 aswell, with a 7200RPM HDD which makes them REALLY fast!

If you'll be running Windows most of the time, just don't go with Apple. You could save so much money with another brand.

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That Dell is actually quite nice looking. Still has its flaws but its definitely nice to look at compared to some of the others out there. Mostly the one's MS advertised in their laptop hunter ads. Those all sucked.

My still main reason for him getting a mac is the best of both worlds. You can run both on a mac perfectly, you can't run both on a pc perfectly. If he wants to save money sure pc route is smart. If its more about functionality then Mac is the obvious route. It can do everything the pc can AND run osx. To me its like buying a phone and small camera when you could buy a phone with a camera in it. Might be cheaper but its a hell of a lot more convenient with it all in 1 place.

Another thing I don't remember anyone mentioned was the trackpad. I looooove Apple's newer glass trackpad where the entire surface is a button. I haven't seen a comparable trackpad on any other brand. While trackpad's are subjective to their users I think everyone can agree the MacBook trackpad's are quite lovely. Keyboards are really nice to type on too. :$

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yeah.... considering your going to be spending 90% of your time using Windows applications anyway, aside from the sexyness of the hardware design there is no real need for you to blow your money on a Mac. Is the nice looking hardware really worth it? If you need a real workhorse for College, this should be the last consideration.

My wife's youngest sister is in college and she's all Mac. You can make it without Windows if you really want to.

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Personally, I don't see the switch to the Mac worth it, especially for what you would be using it for. I used two MacBook Pro's between 2008 and the beginning of 2009 (a mid-2007 model and a late-2008 model which was the introduction of the "unibody" style) and had a lot of issues with Apple support... it would seem that their support for customers outside of large metropolitan areas in countries such as Canada is lackluster at best. Let me explain (I'll wrap this in quote tags because it's overly long):

The moral of the story is this - you shouldn't have to climb as far up the ladder as possible to get a simple repair taken care of. When you purchase a product that is over $2,000 you expect that it would be supported properly... PC OEMs have provided basic mail-in service (and even in-home next business day service) for years, including Dell or Hewlett-Packard and their machines typically have better specifications at a fraction of the cost of a Mac.

I wound up selling my MacBook Pro in February 2009 because I was left with such a sour experience that I didn't want to deal with them anymore. I didn't want to have to deal with the possibility of having to send the system into an AASP should anything ever happen and get that sort of treatment again.

For the needs that you have specified I feel that you would be better suited by a laptop from HP, Dell, or another PC manufacturer... you could buy it with better specifications and still save several hundred dollars that you could invest in accessories, software, or take yourself out for a nice dinner somewhere.

Just my 2 cents.

What a horror story. Wow...

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So hold on.. let me get this straight..

You want to code in Microsoft's Visual Basic, use Microsoft's SQL Server and play games...

Why are you considering a Mac again? I mean, you'll obviously spend more time in Windows on it then in OSX, especially since if you want to get serious you would have to at least use Visual Studio Express which is again from Microsoft.

Plus, if you do coding, having a PC laptop like Dell 15" or 16" which allows you 1920x1200 resolution will give you a lot of real-estate and you will actually need it bad once you start coding plus you'll get higher resolution in games too. Not to mention it will be cheaper.

I mean, not saying you what to do or how to spend money, but I just don't see what you would need a Mac. You want to run like iMovie and iPhoto? Everything you will be using it for is not available on a Mac or in case of games pretty poor as far as selection goes.

For a Mac Book Pro you will not only pay A LOT more than even better configured Dell XPS 16 for example (with Blu-ray) and with Dell you will get 3 year warranty for free if you call them while you'll pay additional $250 for Apple Care. You might even get full Office like I did if you catch them in promotional period.

Another issue is that I always had stability problems in Windows with Apple's Bootcamp drivers. I mean it worked, but it was always something. either my system was slowing down mysteriously or I had sound issues or something.

Is Mac appearance and just using Apple's UI that much worth to you?

Again, I'll be working on different projects that don't require a Windows machine, especially graphics. I only need those for this semester. I should've mentioned that in my first post, sorry.

And yes, I like the user experience, it makes a difference for me.

I actually take back what I said about "casual" gaming, but I do need a decent graphics, nothing high-end.

I'm actually looking at the laptops you guys suggested, especially those Dells, or a mid-range HP pavillion. I'm "considering" switching to Macs, but I'll probably still get a Windows laptop. I always go with Windows, because it's the obvious choice, that's why I never owned a Mac.

In college especially, Macs, like most apple products, are status symbols.

That's why most people buy it. You think all those cute girls in your anthropology class are hacking away in xcode, compiling some fink apps, or have ever so much as opened Terminal? Maybe you think they have bootcamp installed or are running VMWare fusion in unity mode? No, they're doing what everyone without macs is doing - chatting it up on social networking sites while loading songs on their ipod.

Yes, most. What do people REALLY do with Macs? Other than the fact that they're "cool".

Dell XPS 16 is SEX.. I LOVE IT.. and it's now using new i7 CPUs 720QM and 820QM that are equivalent to 2.8ghz and 3.06ghz with Blu-ray drive, 500gb 7200 rpm hdd, backlit keyboard and ATI RADEON? HD 4670 – 1GB, HDMI out and 2yr warranty standard. They usually give 3 for free.. but it's $100 extra at this moment but if you call them they'll include it for free guaranteed. Total is like $2k for 16" and like $1599 i think for 15.6" XPS.

It's a beauty:

3232263134_6f8e325b51.jpg

and I've had Mac Book Pro a while back and I would never get it again unless I need a portable solution to work on iphone apps. That's the ONLY reason I would even consider a Mac laptop for.

now THAT's nice! I'm actually considering getting one of those.

Edited by Bassem
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Yes, most. What do people REALLY do with Macs? Other than the fact that they're "cool".

I'd never do the development work that I do on OS X on Windows, mostly because having the Unix underpinnings make things simpler for working with Ruby on Rails. Plus, I get access to the applications I like working with, like Xscope, TextMate, Yojimbo, 1Password, The Hit List, Meerkat, and Xcode, just to name a few.

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There are some things that you just can't do on the Macs. For example something basic like histograms for statistics, you can't do it in Numbers or Microsoft Word on your Mac. You need to do it on Windows, so either you have to buy Windows and install it, or you have to buy a PC. This irked me off when I had to do this.

After owning a Mac, I do love OS X and I love the machine. But if I had bought a PC, I still would've been doing the same things on it, just perhaps not running a anti-virus program. When its time to replace my Macbook, I can definitely see myself going back to a PC.

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Dell XPS 16 is SEX.. I LOVE IT.. and it's now using new i7 CPUs 720QM and 820QM that are equivalent to 2.8ghz and 3.06ghz with Blu-ray drive, 500gb 7200 rpm hdd, backlit keyboard and ATI RADEON? HD 4670 ? 1GB, HDMI out and 2yr warranty standard. They usually give 3 for free.. but it's $100 extra at this moment but if you call them they'll include it for free guaranteed. Total is like $2k for 16" and like $1599 i think for 15.6" XPS.

It's a beauty:

3232263134_6f8e325b51.jpg

and I've had Mac Book Pro a while back and I would never get it again unless I need a portable solution to work on iphone apps. That's the ONLY reason I would even consider a Mac laptop for.

Anyone has a picture of the 13 inch model / off topic.

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<br />I'm not going to get into an argument about overpriced hardware but you get the full package with Apple. Their laptops are leading, not only with good specs inside but the way they are designed and built. Sure you can get equally great specs with a Dell, HP, whatever, but I can't stand their cheap plastic, two-tone cases, cheap latches, hinges, ect. They are built to cut costs and save money. Apple's are strong and durable and whether you hate Apple or not, they are quite nice to look at.<br /><br />My main reason for suggesting an Apple is because you get the best of both worlds. Run windows side by side mac or boot it solo. While you can try running osx on a regular pc, support is crap and it doesn't run nearly as nice. Windows on the other hand, runs incredible on a mac, no issues there. The screens are also really nice with exceptional resolution which not often found in laptops.<br /><br />Hardware aside, I'd do it just for OSX, I love everything about the OS. Sure it has its faults but the pros far outweigh the cons. Same reason you wanted the iPhone, it's about the user experience. If you're going to use a computer every day, shouldn't you enjoy it? As for Windows 7, it runs fine. I have it installed on my iMac. Apple hasn't officially released drivers for it but you can get away with Vista one's. One last thing is resale value. Mac's have a significantly higher resale value than your average pc. If you don't like it. Sell it.<br />
<br /><br /><br />

The trouble is that it a BS argument. You do get the best of both worlds, but only because Apples has declared that it is illegal to run OSX on a regular PC. What you get if you ignore the EULA is a hackintosh. It might work, it might not (and good luck with some updates). This is an artificial barrier. The only reason the line exist is because Apple simply can not compete against Microsoft without a hardware model.

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Anyone has a picture of the 13 inch model / off topic.

The 13'' of the XPS Studio looks exactly the same, just a bit narrower at each edge.

Some of Dell's high-end notebooks look really nice, but I still appreciate that Apple seems to be the only OEM that uses aluminum and glass in their products. I'd really like to see Dell, HP or another major vendor offer some aluminum notebooks, as opposed to cheaper plastic models.

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