petrossa Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share Posted November 12, 2009 Which brings me to ask: what is "virtual reality" anyway? The difference between a rock and your perception of it. A screen upon which reality is projected by a wobbly 8 mm film projector, with varying light intensity and dinky transport chain. It looks like the real thing, but distorted, processed, manipulated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamminium Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 The phrase has "reality" in it. I was interested in what "reality" means in that phrase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrossa Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share Posted November 12, 2009 That enters into the metaphysical, an area i avoid like the plaque. Just take it for what it is. Reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamminium Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 People have attempted to define it and no unanimous view has been attained. That said, it doesn't stop you from formulating your own to support your contention. Because you made the affirmative in advocating the "virtual reality", it is important to characterise the phrase. I can wait till you propose the appropriate framework. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrossa Posted November 13, 2009 Author Share Posted November 13, 2009 The OP is not an opening for a students dispute debate forum, your proposal to turn it into one i politely decline. :sleep: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamminium Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Feel free. lol It's my habit. When there's something controversial, it needs to be defined in order for the discussion to proceed without complications. Right now, I've no clear idea what "virtual reality" actually contains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrossa Posted November 13, 2009 Author Share Posted November 13, 2009 :laugh: By pure definition it's impossible to determine what reality is since we virtualize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamminium Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Yup, but you virtualise a "reality". What is "reality" first of all? If it's not defined, how can it be virtualised? Even more perplexing, what does "virtualise" entail? I'm looking into the basics of the words here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrossa Posted November 13, 2009 Author Share Posted November 13, 2009 Any good dictionary will set you on course Lam. The OP and the rest of my posts clearly stated i didn't want to enter in the realm of metaphysics because i don't give a **** if tree a falls and i'm not there does it give a sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamminium Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 If only it were that simple: re?al?i?ty (r-l-t)n. pl. re?al?i?ties 1. The quality or state of being actual or true. 2. One, such as a person, an entity, or an event, that is actual: "the weight of history and political realities" (Benno C. Schmidt, Jr.) 3. The totality of all things possessing actuality, existence, or essence. 4. That which exists objectively and in fact: Your observations do not seem to be about reality. Source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrossa Posted November 13, 2009 Author Share Posted November 13, 2009 What do you want more? I find it quite adequate definitions. Reality is what it is. Simple, straightforward. Passes occam's without a hair shaved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamminium Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 All four definitions point to "objectively real". What we've been discussing is subjectively real. The problem is profound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrossa Posted November 13, 2009 Author Share Posted November 13, 2009 No our discussions are about virtual reality. At least i was discussing that. So reality is reality. Simple. What our little storyteller in our heads makes of it is virtual, as in not reality itself but a simulacrum. Nothing profound there. Just a primate which exists because it does, with too much time on his hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kernatch Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Our experience really exists, otherwise we wouldn't be experiencing. It's the job of a philosopher to distort how we really use words like "reality", petrossa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrossa Posted November 15, 2009 Author Share Posted November 15, 2009 Our experience doesn't really exist, that's exactly the whole point of the OP. That's why i use the phrase virtual reality. Reality exists, but our perception of it doesn't always reflect it. No one has caught me here distorting the use of the word reality. In fact i refused categorically getting drawn in that discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kernatch Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Our experience doesn't really exist, that's exactly the whole point of the OP. That's why i use the phrase virtual reality. Reality exists, but our perception of it doesn't always reflect it. I understand what your point is, I don't think you understood mine though. My perception must exist because otherwise I wouldn't be perceiving. You'd rather call your actual direct experience unreal and believe in an objective reality even though you freely admit you have no access to it. Weird! No one has caught me here distorting the use of the word reality. In fact i refused categorically getting drawn in that discussion. You started off already in it. You are distorting use of the world reality. For example, if I say that the apple I see in front of me is real, and the apple in Snow White isn't real, people know what I mean. We know what's real and what isn't, simple as that. If you say the apple in front me isn't real, you're redefining real and you're talking metaphysics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrossa Posted November 15, 2009 Author Share Posted November 15, 2009 You started off already in it. You are distorting use of the world reality. For example, if I say that the apple I see in front of me is real, and the apple in Snow White isn't real, people know what I mean. We know what's real and what isn't, simple as that. If you say the apple in front me isn't real, you're redefining real and you're talking metaphysics. If i did that you'd have a point but i don't. I only state our perception of reality doesn't reflect reality. So i leave reality be. I don't distort the word. I don't say the apple isn't real, i say that your perception of the apple doesn't necessarily reflect it's actual state. I say that the image painted on you minds eye is a completely artificial one. Already it's turned upside down. If you'd put an image up of all the neurons in the retina firing it just would be one great mess of seemingly random flashes. In fact the retina can be viewed as a complex image preprocessor. So even before it enters your visual cortex it's already nothing like the original image projected by the lens on the retina. In fact after being cleaned up in the retina the image goes to your limbic system and already let's your body react to the image before it even enters the visual cortex. The visual cortex does a whole lot of image processing as well, rendering the image according to your previous memory of the same image, linking it to your visual memory to see if it resembles something you know already. If it does and the image is not clear enough the missing bits get filled up from memory. Next the image is evaluated by measuring bodily responses to see what your limbic system made of it. All this is collated, and offered to to language department to name the image, give it a mental description. Finally you become aware you've seen an apple. That's a completely sanitized, virtual, image of the actual apple...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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