Carmack on Rage: "We don't think we will have dedicated servers&qu


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http://weblogs.variety.com/the_cut_scene/2...nt-to-hear.html

?It?s not cast in stone yet, but at this point no, we don?t think we will have dedicated servers,? he says.
?Modern Warfare 2? will use a matchmaking setup powered by IWNET for online play. It?s too early to say what Rage will use, but Carmack indicated he believed the servers are something of a remnant of the early days of PC gaming.

That said, he realizes the affinity many PC gamers have for them ? and is glad ?Rage? won?t be leading the charge away from them.

?The great thing is we won?t have to be a pioneer on that,? he says. ?We?ll see how it works out for everyone else.?

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So MW2 will have multiplayer very similar to Halo 2 and 3's? I don't see anything wrong in that. It promote fair play and challenging. I see people not playing and getting achievements by selecting a map and then joining it. With matchmaking, all you can do is to load it and it will put you in a match. What is dedicated servers anyway?

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I don't see why so many companies are against dedicated servers. First of all the companies themselves are not paying for the servers. Just look at UT99 or UT2004, Counter Strike etc the vast majority of these games use servers paid for by the gamers themselves. It is silly to block all dedicated servers in favour of Matchmaking.

Left 4 Dead has done it right, they have Official servers paid for by Valve, Unofficial servers by gamers and Matchmaking / P2P. That is the best way to do it because when you try to play online you first look for an official, if none are free you look for an unofficial and if none of those are free you take your chances with the P2P. This guarantees you will always find a game regardless.

The only reason at all that any company would do this is to sell you downloadable content and by restricting you to P2P play only they can closely control what content you have access to, e.g. only official content sanctioned and included in the game client or content you pay extra to have included in your game client.

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^ It could quite possibly that it takes time and money to develop the netcode for dedicated servers? I don't know 100%. But no dedicated server sucks :(

I guess it's up to games like MW 2 to show a major flop for not using dedicated servers to send a message to other developers to realise that dedicated servers is the only way to go.

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^ It could quite possibly that it takes time and money to develop the netcode for dedicated servers? I don't know 100%. But no dedicated server sucks :(

I guess it's up to games like MW 2 to show a major flop for not using dedicated servers to send a message to other developers to realise that dedicated servers is the only way to go.

Lets be honest it takes more money and effort to do P2P. You also need to setup a negotiation master server for P2P due to everyone playing not having ports opened. The only reason is control. They want more of it.

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There may be "a lot" of pc gamers who want dedicated servers and the annoyance and frustration of server hunting.however in comparison, this "a lot" of pc gamers, are a relatively small fraction of the gamers who will get the game, and that HUGE majority simply want easy multiplayer, with fairly set up player matching and not having to actually hunt for server with people on them. They want to just play and have fun and at most play with their friends, which is possible with the built in matchmaking tools.

So matchmaking is going in no matter what, however, dedicated servers, not really worth the developer time to create, much less maintain down the road as it simply adds more stuff in the net code that they need to test and make sure work with every small patch they make for other stuff.

Also the developer himself rarely do the matchmaking servers, MS provides one of the best match making services around through XBL/WLGFW, Sony has their service, and even Steam has a something they call matchmaking. IW is making their own, which is probably a mistake but whatever.

Meanwhile dedicated servers, even when you do find one, you never know how long it's gonna last and even if it lasts, you don't know how long players will keep playing on it. and then you need to find another decent server not full of crap mods and mutators, half decent players who are interested in playing and not trash talking, and in many cases know what the words team and work means, even separately.

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Bad players don't have anything to do with the type of server the game runs on.

And you can have dedicated servers with matchmaking, Valve do it fine with L4D.

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Meanwhile dedicated servers, even when you do find one, you never know how long it's gonna last and even if it lasts, you don't know how long players will keep playing on it. and then you need to find another decent server not full of crap mods and mutators, half decent players who are interested in playing and not trash talking, and in many cases know what the words team and work means, even separately.

You're wrong. Most dedicated servers are on 24/7, so they last forever. How ofter does the host leave during matchmaking, kicking everyone out of the game? With dedicated servers that doesn't happen. In cod there was always been filters to disable the mods from showing up. All you have to do is change mods from "all" to "no". It takes 1 second. You will never see mods again. Usually teams work better on dedicated servers. Lots of the time on dedicated servers the players know each other, not randoms. If they get an idiot the idiot gets kicked/banned.

There may be "a lot" of pc gamers who want dedicated servers and the annoyance and frustration of server hunting.

I don't see how you can think that. I found my favorite servers the first day I played. I have about 8-10 favorite servers, that play with rules I like, with good ping, and I usually list my favorites instead of all online games. It takes me 5 seconds tops to refresh what map they are playing and join what game I want. I'd be willing to bet matchmaking takes longer, and without as much options. It's not even possible to pick the map with the old matchmaking for cod, much less the rules of the game. Just because console gamers think it works alright doesn't mean it's really that good.

I think most people that don't care about dedicated servers are console gamers that have never tried a server browser. I've used both and there is no comparison, servers win hands down.

Edited by s1k3sT
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You're wrong. Most dedicated servers are on 24/7, so they last forever. How ofter does the host leave during matchmaking, kicking everyone out of the game? With dedicated servers that doesn't happen. In cod there was always been filters to disable the mods from showing up. All you have to do is change mods from "all" to "no". It takes 1 second. You will never see mods again. Usually teams work better on dedicated servers. Lots of the time on dedicated servers the players know each other, not randoms. If they get an idiot the idiot gets kicked/banned.

Dedicated servers last forever, funny, last I checked there was significantly less BF2 and Bf2142 servers than there was when the games where new and I played them actively.

And most half decent matchmaking games will have transparent host transfer. And those that don't, usually have semi transparent host transfer. but transparent host transfers has been around since some of the first XBL 360 games at least. Heck some of the RB6 games had it on PC before anyone knew what matchmaking was.

Also if you have friends you play with, then you play with them when you use matchmaking too, this teamplay. Of course with matchmaking the skill of everyone on your team and even how well you play together is (can be) taken into consideration when your opponents are chosen to make sure it's a level even playing field.

and yes there are filters and all that, and while you care about them, and dedicated servers, you and those who do are probably roughly 1% of the total players, as I said, it's not worth it for them to develop something that takes money and resources for such a small segment. especially when it only adds headache for them down the roads as they make new patches and new game content.

Decryptor, the point is that matchmaking makes sure bad players are matched against bad players, or teams get match on an average, so if one team has lots of very good players, they may get one or two crappy ones, to balance out when they get matched against a team of all average players.

And yes L4D has matchmaking and dedicated servers. worst effing idea ever. It's NOT fun to sit for 10 minutes waiting while the games says "host is looking for dedicated server" not when you're playing regular L4D, not vs. where there's absolutely no reason whatsoever to use a dedicated server to start with.

I think most people that don't care about dedicated servers are console gamers that have never tried a server browser. I've used both and there is no comparison, servers win hands down.

I used to be a heavy pc gamer. And I'm so glad I don't have to deal with servers anymore. teams where all the good players join one team, unable to find decent servers, rules changing, unable to find decent server with decent people and decent rules, annoying 12 year old server admins+++

it's just not fun. when you can just hit play choose the gametype you want and be in.

As they say, servers are old fashioned. and again, you and the other "dedicated server ftw" people are such a small minority in the large picture, it's not WORTH it, economically to add the function.

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Dedicated servers last forever, funny, last I checked there was significantly less BF2 and Bf2142 servers than there was when the games where new and I played them actively.

Yes, forever wasn't the right word, but they usually last for a LONG time.

I doubt the people wanting dedicated servers is 1%. On pc I'd say it's very high, imo probably over 50%. Every person in my clan I've talked to about this is ****ed and don't want to buy it. I'm sure many will, but many won't.

We prefer choice. We choose the map, the rules, and how many players. All of this is gone with mw2, and that's why I'm keeping my $60, IW messed up big time. If we wanted the console experience we would buy the console...

I hated l4d's online also. I've tried hosting games because I couldn't find a dedicated server, lets just say the pings were HIGH! User hosted games are a joke, laggy and unfair. The idiots at IW were actually bragging they were getting around 100 ping! 100ms ping is terrible, I can't play with that much lag! This game is going to bomb on pc watch.

Edited by s1k3sT
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There may be "a lot" of pc gamers who want dedicated servers and the annoyance and frustration of server hunting.however in comparison, this "a lot" of pc gamers, are a relatively small fraction of the gamers who will get the game, and that HUGE majority simply want easy multiplayer, with fairly set up player matching and not having to actually hunt for server with people on them. They want to just play and have fun and at most play with their friends, which is possible with the built in matchmaking tools.

So matchmaking is going in no matter what, however, dedicated servers, not really worth the developer time to create, much less maintain down the road as it simply adds more stuff in the net code that they need to test and make sure work with every small patch they make for other stuff.

Also the developer himself rarely do the matchmaking servers, MS provides one of the best match making services around through XBL/WLGFW, Sony has their service, and even Steam has a something they call matchmaking. IW is making their own, which is probably a mistake but whatever.

Meanwhile dedicated servers, even when you do find one, you never know how long it's gonna last and even if it lasts, you don't know how long players will keep playing on it. and then you need to find another decent server not full of crap mods and mutators, half decent players who are interested in playing and not trash talking, and in many cases know what the words team and work means, even separately.

Look at l4d, you can have dedicated servers AND match making they are NOT mutually exclusive. No dedicated = bad end of story.

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personally im glad Private servers are startign to be moved away from, was a PITA trying to find a pure server for CoD:WaW that wasn't modified

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Stop console tarding the PC.

Matchmaking is fine, but do it with dedicated servers. If you won't foot the bill for official servers just let Multiplay/Jolt/Wireplay/etc host their usual 15-20 servers.

There hasn't been a massive influx of new PC gamers who scratch their head and drool all over the floor when they buy a PC game and are faced with a server list. The majority of the PC gaming audience put up with a more complex platform than a console, hence know their way about a god damn server list.

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i seriously doubt its an issue with a sever list, think its more of an issue with the thousands of variants of mods, literally iv done double digits public servers, each one had its own mod or custom map, and i just clicked a server randomly. and the multitude of Server names so they can be at the top when sorted alphabetically

The majority of the PC gaming audience put up with a more complex platform than a console, hence know their way about a god damn server list.
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personally im glad Private servers are startign to be moved away from, was a PITA trying to find a pure server for CoD:WaW that wasn't modified

How is that? Use the filters to filter out mods. It takes 1 second to setup.

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How is that? Use the filters to filter out mods. It takes 1 second to setup.

Problem is you get servers that "ban" certain weapons have have moderators on hand to prevent the usage of said weapon. Most of the COD5 servers I've been on ban rocket launchers. You also get servers that use the standard maps but with crazy user limits so it's a never ending spawn killing spree.

I can see how that would annoy the dev's as it means the game isn't being played the way they intended it to be played.

Really sucks tho, I tend to hang around one or two TF2 servers that have custom maps and a few user mods installed, I wouldn't have enjoyed the game anywhere near as much if I didn't have the option to do so.

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How is that? Use the filters to filter out mods. It takes 1 second to setup.

Exactly, I laugh at that lame excuse of "EVERY SERVER I PLAY ON IS ALWAYS CUSTOM MODS". It's very easy to filter a list.

You know, the point in dedicated servers is to use your favourites list and find a good collection of servers to play on. Me and a load of other folk must be doing it right, I see lots of regulars on the servers I play on. I doubt many PC owners close their eyes and randomly join new servers everytime they play.

Then there's the point of being sensible, play on servers hosted by all the online gaming outlets like those I listed above, playing on a server called "Mikes funhouse" is probably not a good idea if you want a vanilla experience.

I've gamed on the PC for probably around 10 years, and I really can't tell you of any one game I've had difficulties finding or playing on a collection of servers with normal rules. Or at least normal rules, maybe infused with stat collecting and server leaderboards.

Vastly over exaggerated point, and it still doesn't make any impact on the idea of doing matchmaking and dedicated servers. Those that for whatever reason are unable to find some servers to play on can use the matchmaking.

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you mean the same filters that show/hide Max/empty servers, dont remember seeing a Mod or Pure setting

How is that? Use the filters to filter out mods. It takes 1 second to setup.
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