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Microsoft needs to get there crap together

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Slimy    13

Windows UI > Mac UI

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Kpssst    4
Windows 7 is great, I love it. No problems even in Beta but seriously they need a decent looking GUI and there is so many good people who make themes, like Capricorn and some other dude i dont know but like seriously microsoft needs a good GUI, glass is nice but its just overpowering in my opinion, even i could come up with someone so cliche, not to mention its been around FOREVER the glass idea is terrible. Many people who even get a "Mac" like the way it looks which entices people to buy it cause it looks great.. I know looks are not everything but really though it is, it's what sells. I see so many people with Mac's that just sit there and do nothing with it except type and browse. If they made a better looking OS, i can guarantee sales would go up even more. people don't go PC because it's never even rivaled Mac OS x's design.

Thank you for reading my drunken non sense.

Perhaps I haven't been around too long, but I can't seem to remember glass UI every other place I looked before Vista came out. Though I suppose since it was so "cliche" that everyone decided it wasn't worth their time to even develop it in the first place...

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Nashy    1,661

Perhaps the OP just needs to realise that computers are about function, and working. Not about what they look like. The look of the OS is a big deal, when you run it for the first time.

The current look of Windows 7 adds great function to the OS. If you're into looks, great, go change it.

Mac needs to sell their OS somehow. They don't have compatability across the market like Windows does, so they go for the materialistic chracters like yourself.

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Kirkburn    172
Well, at least until Office 2010 comes along and brings back the custom GUI. This is Microsoft tradition. Maybe not quite as ridiculous as what was once popular, but others will follow Microsoft's example and make custom GUIs. After all, if not even Microsoft gives a damn, then why should anyone else?

Actually Office 2010 has a pretty standard UI. The ribbon is built into Windows these days.

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hdood    145
Actually Office 2010 has a pretty standard UI. The ribbon is built into Windows these days.

You can't have looked very closely, because the Office ribbon and backstage menu is different from the Windows one, in both function and more importantly appearance. Why? Because that's what the Office people do.

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Xerxes    228
Yea you know they tried looks over performance with Vista, it didn't really sell.

(note: didn't really have any issues with vista personally).

But the BEST part about Windows is if you don't like the look, there really isn't a lot standing in your way and changing it. So go for it.

Huh? :blink: how is offloading the GUI onto the GPU putting looks over performace exactly? as that is exactly what MS did with Aero as it wasn't all about looks but also performace, as till then the CPU did all the work rendering the GUI.

The is nothing wrong with Aero I like it. However, to be honest OSX is miles ahead of Windows in terms of looks simply because there is one little concept that Apple has nailed yet it's still elusive to MS, consistancy. It's only a small thing but it makes all the difference, i.e. having WinXP/9x icons and dialog boxes floating around and no apparent set design guidelines for the apps, it's a bit hodge podge really. I'm not knocking Windows, I'm an avid Windows user and always will be just it still needs some polishing to get to the level OSX is at (GUI wise). Well that is my 2 cents, take with a grain of salt.

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hdood    145
Huh? :blink: how is offloading the GUI onto the GPU putting looks over performace exactly? as that is exactly what MS did with Aero as it wasn't all about looks but also performace, as till then the CPU did all the work rendering the GUI.

The hardware did parts of the work before Aero, it was not all CPU-based. In fact, Vista does more of the "rendering" of the GUI on the CPU than XP did. Only the compositing of the finished drawing is handled by the GPU. That's why it always benchmarks worse.

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Xerxes    228
No, the hardware did parts of the work before Aero. In fact, Vista does more of the "rendering" of the GUI on the CPU than XP did. Only the compositing of the finished drawing is handled by the GPU. That's why it always benchmarks worse.

That seams a bit retarded :/ Even on the same machine Vista always *seamed* faster then XP, guess it's an illusion.

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Kirkburn    172
You can't have looked very closely, because the Office ribbon and backstage menu is different from the Windows one, in both function and more importantly appearance. Why? Because that's what the Office people do.

Well, yes, there are going to be some differences. Why? Because different programs do different things, and have different needs. It would be silly to design a program to absolute standards if they produce a less useful product.

But you can't really accuse Office of not looking native.

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zagor    28
The hardware did parts of the work before Aero, it was not all CPU-based. In fact, Vista does more of the "rendering" of the GUI on the CPU than XP did. Only the compositing of the finished drawing is handled by the GPU. That's why it always benchmarks worse.

Here is some real info for you guys:

Windows 7 Graphics Performance

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hdood    145
That seams a bit retarded :/ Even on the same machine Vista always *seamed* faster then XP, guess it's an illusion.

Doesn't matter much in the real world, and it was a necessary step on the long road to a future Windows where there are GPU-based GUI frameworks as well. Just some useless trivia.

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Kirkburn    172
That seams a bit retarded :/ Even on the same machine Vista always *seamed* faster then XP, guess it's an illusion.

If something seems faster than something else, regardless of whether it's an illusion, essentially it is faster. :)

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hdood    145
Well, yes, there are going to be some differences. Why? Because different programs do different things, and have different needs. It would be silly to design a program to absolute standards if they produce a less useful product. This is the same logic everyone that deviates from the standard and make their own custom interfaces use.

But you can't really accuse Office of not looking native.

Nonsense. If Microsoft wants people to use the standard Ribbon control and follow the standard guidelines, the their only software should do it as well. Your argument seems to be that the design that is part of Windows is broken and less useful and thus can't be used. Okay then... Why should anyone bother using it then?

Here is some real info for you guys:

Windows 7 Graphics Performance

What is it you want me to look at there? Are you implying that I'm wrong? Because absolutely nothing in that post says so. In fact, it isn't even about Vista.

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Kyang    112
Well it's personal preference in the end. I use Vista & I do actually like Aero, but OsX's Aqua seems alot more professionally designed.. And I think the point of grey is to be boring or neutral. Do we really want window frames that are so pretty we stare at them all day?

I don't think Microsoft "need to get there crap together", but I think they could do alot better than Aero, but they could also do alot worse.

No, which is why I like how Aero's is clear. :p .

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Kirkburn    172
Nonsense. If Microsoft wants people to use the standard Ribbon control and follow the standard guidelines, the their only software should do it as well. Your argument seems to be that the design that is part of Windows is broken and less useful and thus can't be used. Okay then... Why should anyone bother using it then?

Not in the slightest.

They have guidelines, and within reason they should be followed for most cases that lie in the middle between a very simple program like Notepad and an incredibly advanced suite like Office.

A single UI type simply cannot cover them both. But a large majority of software should be able to use it okay. Even then, the ribbon is not core to the UI experience - there are a great deal of other ways a program can be "standard" even when not using the ribbon.

That being said, Office 2010's UI is an update to Windows 7's ribbon, which was an update to Office 2007's.

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KoL    36

I agree Microsoft UI designers are not the best. Aero theme is not bad, it could be better, but that basic theme is hideous. Same with a lot of Microsoft products. Their last Facebook program is horrible. Their best GUI is used in Office, Windows Live is nice too but I really don't like much anything else.

I know they get people from Iconfactory and Enhanced Labs to do their icons. I don't know if they do that with their interfaces but why not do that too?

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hdood    145
That being said, Office 2010's UI is an update to Windows 7's ribbon, which was an update to Office 2007's.

One is an operating system, the other is an Office suite. An Office suite doesn't update an OS component, and especially not something as fundamental as how one interacts with the program. If the Ribbon is now going to be a standard control, then Microsoft's programs should use it as well instead of rolling their own.

Office could absolutely get by using the same controls that Microsoft wants everyone else to use.

Of course they won't, because a major philosophy of Office has ALWAYS been to use custom GUIs in an attempt to make their program look and act better than the competition. If it's okay for Office to do this, then we have to accept that it's okay for everyone else to also deviate as they want.

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soonerproud    22
I think it looks fine. In fact, I like it more than any previous O/S.

Sorry, -1 vote.

ajua: Your use of the ellipsis in your first sentence was redundant. Also, there was no need for the apostrophe when referring to GUIs.

When you're going to pick on someone for spelling or grammar, make sure your own backyard is clean first. :)

Damn English trolls! :p

I don't speak English. I'm American!

:huh:

Joking, only joking.

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neo158    281
One is an operating system, the other is an Office suite. An Office suite doesn't update an OS component, and especially not something as fundamental as how one interacts with the program. If the Ribbon is now going to be a standard control, then Microsoft's programs should use it as well instead of rolling their own.

Office could absolutely get by using the same controls that Microsoft wants everyone else to use.

Of course they won't, because a major philosophy of Office has ALWAYS been to use custom GUIs in an attempt to make their program look and act better than the competition. If it's okay for Office to do this, then we have to accept that it's okay for everyone else to also deviate as they want.

Comparing Office 2010s UI to the Windows UI is like comparing Apples to Oranges.

It's not about making Office look and act better than the competition it's about making a functional program thats easy to use.

If we want to take the argument about UI consistency further lets look at Google Chrome, Firefox, Safari or even iTunes as they don't conform to the Windows GUI standards either.

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hdood    145
Comparing Office 2010s UI to the Windows UI is like comparing Apples to Oranges.

Sorry, I was under the impression that Office was a Windows program.

It's not about making Office look and act better than the competition it's about making a functional program thats easy to use.

Outblinging the competition has been a major goal for Office for a long time.

If we want to take the argument about UI consistency further lets look at Google Chrome, Firefox, Safari or even iTunes as they don't conform to the Windows GUI standards either.

And why should they? They're just following Microsoft's example.

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Shadrack    601

I really like aero. I liked it in vista and I like it in 7. If you don't like it you can buy a copy of windowblinds and customize to your hearts content.

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Kirkburn    172
One is an operating system, the other is an Office suite. An Office suite doesn't update an OS component, and especially not something as fundamental as how one interacts with the program. If the Ribbon is now going to be a standard control, then Microsoft's programs should use it as well instead of rolling their own.

Office could absolutely get by using the same controls that Microsoft wants everyone else to use.

Of course they won't, because a major philosophy of Office has ALWAYS been to use custom GUIs in an attempt to make their program look and act better than the competition. If it's okay for Office to do this, then we have to accept that it's okay for everyone else to also deviate as they want.

Office 2007 introduced a new UI concept, the ribbon. Windows 7 started to build this in to the UI, and encourages usage. Windows 7's version is an updated, generalised version of Office 2007's ribbon, and is used in a couple of programs.

Office 2010 also uses the ribbon concept, but is again updated, and made to work better for Office 2010. Yes, it is a little different from the basic Win7 version, but for chrissakes, it's one of the most complex suites of programs known to man: hell yes it should be able to make tweaks to suit it.

Like I said, the ribbon as seen in Win 7 should be able to apply to most programs that wish to use it. If a program needs to make tweaks that UI in order for the program to be usable, it should be able to do so.

Hell, as you say, if a developer wants their program to look and act better than the competition, why on earth tell them they shouldn't? I don't want every program to follow a strict, narrow set of rules for no reason other than everything looks similar. Think of the outcry if any OS developer enforced that. Of course, they can encourage it, and do. But Office 2010 hardly undermines that effort.

On the more legalese side: MS holds the keys to the ribbon. If you're going to make a very ribbon-like UI in a program, you would probably use MS' available implementation - something that means weird deviations are less likely.

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gregrocker    0
glass is nice but its just overpowering in my opinion, even i could come up with someone so cliche, not to mention its been around FOREVER the glass idea is terrible.

Windows are glass. Win7 is beautiful perfection, IMO.

Get the Win7 7 national edition backgrounds (84 total) on the web for slideshow - the most stunning pictures ever taken.

Thank you for reading my drunken non sense.

You're welcome

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hdood    145
Office 2007 introduced a new UI concept, the ribbon. Windows 7 started to build this in to the UI, and encourages usage. Windows 7's version is an updated, generalised version of Office 2007's ribbon, and is used in a couple of programs.

The problem is that they have made it a standard UI control, and that Office then goes and changes it. This is Microsoft sending the message that developers should just do whatever they want.

Office 2010 also uses the ribbon concept, but is again updated, and made to work better for Office 2010. Yes, it is a little different from the basic Win7 version, but for chrissakes, it's one of the most complex suites of programs known to man: hell yes it should be able to make tweaks to suit it.

Like I said, the ribbon as seen in Win 7 should be able to apply to most programs that wish to use it. If a program needs to make tweaks that UI in order for the program to be usable, it should be able to do so.

The fact that Office is a complex piece of software is completely irrelevant. I'm pretty sure the silly new gradient and color scheme they've come up with serves ZERO purpose other than trying to outbling the competition. This has ALWAYS been Office's strategy, and to claim otherwise is absurd.

Also, these aren't tweaks that you can make to the standard Ribbon control, it is something that requires writing a new one from scratch (and there are several third party ones.)

Hell, as you say, if a developer wants their program to look and act better than the competition, why on earth tell them they shouldn't? I don't want every program to follow a strict, narrow set of rules for no reason other than everything looks similar. Think of the outcry if any OS developer enforced that. Of course, they can encourage it, and do. But Office 2010 hardly undermines that effort.

Which was my only point. If Microsoft does not use the design and functionality they push in Windows and want people to use (obviously Microsoft can't fine people for violating the guidelines, even if they wanted to), then no one else should be expected to either.

Office's idea of what makes a better interfaces is no more correct than Google or Apple's idea of the same. If Google wants to give their applications a different look and do things like integrate tabs in the title bar that deviate from the UI guidelines and customs (your strict narrow set of rules that are designed to have consistency and make the Windows experience better), then this is just as valid as Office doing. It's a free for all and encouragement to make custom interfaces.

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Eice    13
The problem is that they have made it a standard UI control, and that Office then goes and changes it. This is Microsoft sending the message that developers should just do whatever they want.

Office uses a "custom" UI? Did I really read that correctly?

Are you really that incompetent that you don't even realize the lack of logic in your post? Both Windows and Office are Microsoft products. If Microsoft makes it, then it's a standard UI because it's their product and they get to dictate what is standard.

The fact that Office is a complex piece of software is completely irrelevant. I'm pretty sure the silly new gradient and color scheme they've come up with serves ZERO purpose other than trying to outbling the competition. This has ALWAYS been Office's strategy, and to claim otherwise is absurd.

Why would it be absurd? Because it goes against your unsubstantiated and unverified opinion? Please enlighten us why would it be absurd to not agree with a raving forum poster who pulls crap out of thin air. In fact, what WOULD be absurd is to not call you on your bull****. Back up your claims, please.

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