Replacement for Explorer

[petrossa]

Well he said explorer replacement, not filemanager. So litestep is largely a relevant recommendation.

Yes it crashes more often than explorer ever will, due to plugins and themes not being "perfectly optimised".

It's worth it for the versatility though and at worst i'll see LS crash about once a month on XP. W7 i haven't bothered with it yet, i only just installed it today to screenshot & show how it leaves windows themes enabled.

Tbh, the flame-bait is stating that Explorer++ is what he was talking about to begin with.

Explorer++ isn't an explorer replacement. Even if it can replace explorer for file-managing it doesn't perform all the functions explorer will - and you have to be running explorer to keep your taskbar, desktop etc.

Litestep is the only decent explorer replacement enturely due to the added versatility, but he didn't mention it at all.

Problem is litestep is very ugly to say the least and with explorer++ and explorer you have the best of both worlds without having problems with skinning.

[Andrew Lyle Global Moderator]

meh, I think i'll avoid replacing Explorer :/

[petrossa]

I was skeptical too i must say. I never used a shell replacement after dos. Having tried explorer++ i'm very pleased.

Libraries and such still open explorer, but folders open explorer++.

Pretty neat little thing for the price :p

[CuCumber]

True, however Directory Opus is very expensive. You can almost get a copy of Windows for the same price. File management isn't important enough to most people to want to spend 80 bucks on it on top of the price of Windows.

77.6684 USD for a single license. How much is a retail version of Windows 7? I personally think DOpus as an essential piece of Windows usage. If people have not used it, then how would they even know what they are missing? I've got a lot of storage space and lots of files. Keeping them managed with Explorer just doesn't work.

Whether you accept it or not, the vast majority of Windows users do not have issues with explorer.

Nice how some people can speak on behalf of others. I wouldn't even think about it. Even with numbers to backup my opinions, I have to suffer from fanboys.

[petrossa]

77.6684 USD for a single license. How much is a retail version of Windows 7? I personally think DOpus as an essential piece of Windows usage. If people have not used it, then how would they even know what they are missing? I've got a lot of storage space and lots of files. Keeping them managed with Explorer just doesn't work.

I'm interested. In which way does it interact with the OS? Does it skin with windowblinds? What are the most pressing needs it fulfills for you?

[Mamoun]

I really hope qt tab bar will be updated to support windows 7, it was really great in xp.

[Calum Veteran]

[...] Nearly gives back the XP Explorer on Windows 7 with the additional luxury of tabbed browsing.

The Windows XP Explorer had no search bar, no breadcrumb bar and no favourites sidebar (as far as I can remember). If this software removes any of those fantastic improvements, I do not see how anybody would want to go backwards. Those features are what have made using Windows Explorer much quicker than using it on Windows XP, if they are given a chance. Also, as far as I remember, the Windows XP Windows Explorer had a menubar which contained most of the options (instead of the 'Organise' bar) and an awful status bar placed at the bottom of the window - two disgusting UI elements which have luckily been removed in Windows Vista and Windows 7.

I can see the possible benefit of allowing the user to customise Explorer more, but what would you actually want to add to it which it doesn't already have? What options would you guys like to add to the command bar? Most of the options are in the 'Organise' drop-down and surely that's not much of a problem because surely you don't spend that much time moving things about and creating folders/files in Explorer for it to become a hassle? Perhaps some of you do - please correct me if I'm wrong. I like to keep all my files organised and sometimes have hierarchies many folders deep, but even I don't use Explorer that much - I don't see what's wrong with selecting a folder and right-clicking for the options, but each to their own.

Tabbed file browsing doesn't make sense to me. Even with tabs, you're still only able to navigate and manipulate one directory tree at a time. Explorer augments jumping between different directories with the breadcrumb bar and also the Forward/Back lists. Not to mention, you can always open up two Explorer windows and gain more functionality than you could by having tabs.

The only deficit I see in Explorer in its current incarnation is the lack of an option for dual-pane browsing.

I completely agree with you - I don't see a need for tabs. Firstly, each Explorer window is grouped in the taskbar button (unless you have turned that off, for whatever reason) and secondly, Microsoft introduced Aero snap, which allows you to easily snap two Explorer windows side-by-side to clearly see and manipulate the contents of each; unsnapping them returns them to their previous size and position. I don't see a possible use for tabs, after considering both of those two factors; at least, not a reason which justifies Microsoft wasting resources implementing tabs. Somebody please let me know if I've missed a possible use for tabs, after looking at all the issues :)

As for dual-pane browsing, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that, but doesn't Aero snap eliminate the need for that?

[still1]

whats wrong with windows explorer in windows 7?

I dont understand why some dont like them??

[hdood]

77.6684 USD for a single license. How much is a retail version of Windows 7? I personally think DOpus as an essential piece of Windows usage. If people have not used it, then how would they even know what they are missing? I've got a lot of storage space and lots of files. Keeping them managed with Explorer just doesn't work.

It doesn't matter if you consider it essentially. Eight bucks is still far more than most people are willing to pay for just a file manager. It doesn't matter if they've tried it or not, although I have a feeling most people would actually find DOpus too complex and confusing.

Nice how some people can speak on behalf of others. I wouldn't even think about it. Even with numbers to backup my opinions, I have to suffer from fanboys.

Numbers to back what up? That most people have problems with Explorer crashing? Get real. If that was real it would be priority 1 for Microsoft. Saying that most people do not have problems with it crashing is not "fanboyism."

As for dual-pane browsing, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that, but doesn't Aero snap eliminate the need for that?

Dual panes means you have two listers side by side in the same window. You can to some extent emulate this full screen with Aero snap, but that is far inferior.

[CuCumber]

I don't see a possible use for tabs, after considering both of those two factors; at least, not a reason which justifies Microsoft wasting resources implementing tabs. Somebody please let me know if I've missed a possible use for tabs, after looking at all the issues :)

As for dual-pane browsing, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that, but doesn't Aero snap eliminate the need for that?

Please tell me why wouldn't you expect a filthy rich multi billion dollar company to have enough resources to fix every single thing that is wrong in Windows? Is this some official Neowin policy when even mods chant it with fanboys? Oh poor Microsoft they made only 3 billion last year, how can they survive. :angry: :angry: :angry:

http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/23/technology...nings/index.htm

Google for "Explorer replacement", try them and only then you can form an opinion whether tabs or dual-panes or any other feature Explorer is missing are really important.

It doesn't matter if you consider it essentially. Eight bucks is still far more than most people are willing to pay for just a file manager. It doesn't matter if they've tried it or not, although I have a feeling most people would actually find DOpus too complex and confusing.

Just a file manager? How about built-in image viewer, file renamer, FTP support, file synchronization, built-in ZIP&RAR support so you can view them as folders, etc... Sounds like you've never even used it.

You can dumb-down DOpus to make it even simpler than Explorer so I don't see what's so complex about it. It's actually far easier to customize than Explorer. People pay xxx $ for Windows and I think it's way overpriced considering what you get, yet "most people" don't even think about it. Hell, they probably don't even know that they pay for Windows, it's just there pre-installed.

I don't know why programs should be made for "lowest common denominator". Being "complex" or full of features doesn't mean it can't be easy to use. DOpus makes many things more logical than Explorer, for example this. Looking at the number of voters, should I dare to say that most people want that feature, It's there in DOpus (you can also drag&drop files to many other places) yet not in Explorer. If there's a button which deletes files, then it's only logical that dropping files to that icon also deletes them. That logic is what makes DOpus so much better.

Numbers to back what up?

Your claims. You can't say most people think like this, you don't know that, so don't use it as an argument. I was referring to that locked thread where I was at least trying to prove my point with actual numbers. If I say most people find control panel messy, then there's some ***** saying I'm making things up my ***.

whats wrong with windows explorer in windows 7?

I dont understand why some dont like them??

Of course you don't understand. But don't worry, that's just because you've never used anything else. Did you know that you can try these programs for free to find out why they are better than Explorer?

[Raa]

Oh please. Here we go again.

Look it's quite simple. Don't like explorer? Don't use it.

Use a shell, or don't use Windows at all.

But for farks sake, can you stop bringing the constant whining about it into these threads?

The O.P. didn't set off well by saying Windows Explorer was sucky, but that doesn't mean we all need to start a flame war about whether Explorer crashes for half the world or not! Or anything else for that matter.

If QT Tab Bar worked for Win7, that'd be an excellent idea, personally. But i'm just as happy to use Explorer as is. I have for the last 14+ years.

[CrashG]

Been using DOpus for years (even had a version on my Amiga A500 :p ). Sure it's a little pricey, but it's more than just a file manager. I've never liked Windows Explorer because I needed something a little more powerful than the basic functionality that WE can provide.

[CuCumber]

But for farks sake, can you stop bringing the constant whining about it into these threads?

No, not as long as even mods whine about Microsofts "lack of resources" which is completely made up story. Three billion dollars. Stop those lies, then any kind of flame war will automatically stop.

[Calum Veteran]

Please tell me why wouldn't you expect a filthy rich multi billion dollar company to have enough resources to fix every single thing that is wrong in Windows? Is this some official Neowin policy when even mods chant it with fanboys? Oh poor Microsoft they made only 3 billion last year, how can they survive. :angry: :angry: :angry:

http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/23/technology...nings/index.htm

Google for "Explorer replacement", try them and only then you can form an opinion whether tabs or dual-panes or any other feature Explorer is missing are really important.

Um, firstly, what does me being a moderator have to do with my opinion? :s Just because some of us are moderators, it does not mean we are not allowed to have opinions and participate in threads. We are members aswell and we do not let opinions get in the way of moderation, so why shouldn't we be allowed to participate? (these are rhetorical questions, by the way, I do not wish for, and am not expecting, responses to them because the answers are obvious and it would just de-rail the discussion further).

Secondly, just because Microsoft earn a lot of money, it does not mean it has resources to use on the littlest of things. It's not always about money. More code in Windows can often mean a more bloaty Windows. More code added to Windows Explorer can often mean a slower Windows Explorer; this is why they only add the features they deem necessary and the ones which are most useful to the majority of users. Also, it's not even just about adding more code to Windows, it's also about the time it takes to add these features. Adding tabs to Windows Explorer could take just one team a lot of time, meaning scheduled release dates or targets are not met. You don't know how Windows Explorer is coded; adding tabs to Windows Explorer could possibly mean a whole re-write of some sort, if not merely a lot of code added/changed.

You have to consider these factors as well as the money aspect...

No, not as long as even mods whine about Microsofts "lack of resources" which is completely made up story. Three billion dollars. Stop those lies, then any kind of flame war will automatically stop.

Please see above. By the way, just because you don't agree with something somebody says and assume it is a lie (when it most likely isn't), you don't have to flame them like you suggested here. You know, you could discuss it with the person - providing arguments/points as to why you think how you do, countering their points. That's what a discussion board is for, not flaming...

[hdood]

Just a file manager? How about built-in image viewer, file renamer, FTP support, file synchronization, built-in ZIP&RAR support so you can view them as folders, etc... Sounds like you've never even used it.

I've used it for years, going all the way back to the Amiga. The things you list are all related to file management, and things people aren't interested in paying $80 more for when Explorer does the job acceptably.

You can dumb-down DOpus to make it even simpler than Explorer so I don't see what's so complex about it. It's actually far easier to customize than Explorer. People pay xxx $ for Windows and I think it's way overpriced considering what you get, yet "most people" don't even think about it. Hell, they probably don't even know that they pay for Windows, it's just there pre-installed.

Because you are an expert user. I know for a fact that less skilled users find the default DOpus layout overwhelming in complexity, and the configuration system so difficult that they don't stand a chance. This is my personal experience. Yes, I could dumb DOpus down for them, but that's hardly the point. It's only easy to customize if you're a skilled user (and even then certain things are difficult and non-intuitive.)

I don't know why programs should be made for "lowest common denominator". Being "complex" or full of features doesn't mean it can't be easy to use.

It usually does. Stuff that is supposed to be used by absolutely everyone just has to be dumbed down. In fact you can even argue against more advanced features simply because novices will accidentally break something, resulting in millions in support costs.

DOpus makes many things more logical than Explorer, for example this. Looking at the number of voters, should I dare to say that most people want that feature, It's there in DOpus (you can also drag&drop files to many other places) yet not in Explorer.

I'm not sure what that site is, but it seems to be set up so people with complaints about Windows 7 can voice them there, and other people with complaints can vote and comment on them. This ends up being a very biased site that you can't extrapolate much useful from. 415 people who took the trouble to go to that specific site to vote for the feature because they want it or stumbled upon it while being annoyed about some other part of Windows isn't a representative poll.

Not just that, but I can say with a fair degree of certainty that the idea of dragging a file onto the address bar has in fact never even occurred to most users. That said, I see no reason why that couldn't have been a feature as it has no negative side effects that I can think of.

If there's a button which deletes files, then it's only logical that dropping files to that icon also deletes them. That logic is what makes DOpus so much better.

I don't know why you believe this is logical. Most people tend to treat toolbar buttons as simple buttons that perform an action when clicked on, just like in the physical world. They don't interact with drag&drop objects. In my experience, novice users aren't even particularly comfortable with dragging things and often make mistakes. They prefer simple sequential actions. Click file, click delete.

I'm not saying that DOpus is a bad product, only that it is very complex and doesn't offer the average user enough to warrant the price tag. $80 is a lot, even if there are some nice features here and there.

Been using DOpus for years (even had a version on my Amiga A500 :p ). Sure it's a little pricey, but it's more than just a file manager. I've never liked Windows Explorer because I needed something a little more powerful than the basic functionality that WE can provide.

See, and that's why products like DOpus exist. To fill this niche. Sounds like things are working the way they should. Windows provides the basic functionality that is designed to be accessible to as wide a user base as possible, while third party software caters for more advanced needs.

[toadeater]

whats wrong with windows explorer in windows 7?

I dont understand why some dont like them??

It doesn't have many of the features that are needed for complex file operations. Explorer is ok for single files, but it's useless for batch operations, multi-file renaming, directory compare, archive handling, file previews, etc., etc. It's just faster to work with a text-based, dual-pane manager when working with multiple files.

Take a look at Total Commander http://www.ghisler.com/ , or DOpus, as several people already mentioned. There are some free alternatives too, but they don't have all the features of Total Commander.

[CuCumber]

Um, firstly, what does me being a moderator have to do with my opinion?

It looks odd when it's the same exact opinion as used by people who can't answer the question "why do you defend Microsoft?"

Secondly, just because Microsoft earn a lot of money, it does not mean it has resources to use on the littlest of things.

Then the company has some problems. As a paying customer I'm not interested in their internal structures or Balmers wallet. I'm interested to get a product that doesn't use decade old parts, do you see any OS 9 icons on OS X? How an earth did they have the resources?

It's not always about money. More code in Windows can often mean a more bloaty Windows. More code added to Windows Explorer can often mean a slower Windows Explorer.

Where do you get this information? You are free to test any Explorer clones and see if they are slow or not. If you meant that Microsoft do not have competent programmers, then it's again their problem and not mine. I'm just interested in the actual product.If we had real working free market, bad products wouldn't survive at all, but we don't have that.

Also, it's not even just about adding more code to Windows, it's also about the time it takes to add these features. Adding tabs to Windows Explorer could take just one team a lot of time, meaning scheduled release dates or targets are not met.

But does it take a lot of time to change an ugly decade old pie chart in disk properties? People just don't want to answer to that kind of questions, instead they claim that your "whining" doesn't make any sense and derail the thread. Don't you see why it's happening? They don't have any answers that's why they attack you personally.

Please see above. By the way, just because you don't agree with something somebody says and assume it is a lie (when it most likely isn't), you don't have to flame them like you suggested here. You know, you could discuss it with the person - providing arguments/points as to why you think how you do, countering their points. That's what a discussion board is for, not flaming...

I have countered their points with other people's opinions also. Go and look what happened in that locked thread. It got locked just like I predicted. How can you have civilized conversations when you personally get attacked and even without using any arguments? I've heard that I post things that do not make any sense, I've still not gotten any answer why don't they make any sense. If you compare something to OS X a few people will attack you immediately. Is it normal behavior? Look at this example. Do you see any Chrome fan attacking Elliott? What do you think will happen when I show that kind of picture of Windows? Sick.

I know for a fact that less skilled users find the default DOpus layout overwhelming in complexity, and the configuration system so difficult that they don't stand a chance. This is my personal experience. Yes, I could dumb DOpus down for them, but that's hardly the point. It's only easy to customize if you're a skilled user (and even then certain things are difficult and non-intuitive.)

How can you make customizing easier than right click -> customize -> select a button -> delete. How can you do it in a simpler way? That's how you dumb-down DOpus.

It usually does. Stuff that is supposed to be used by absolutely everyone just has to be dumbed down. In fact you can even argue against more advanced features simply because novices will accidentally break something, resulting in millions in support costs.

How do you think these people managed to use pre-SP2 XP that infected itself if you had it networked? Who paid for the reinstalls? As far as I know it wasn't Microsoft. Who pays if you screw up Windows? I think that's me.

I'm not sure what that site is, but it seems to be set up so people with complaints about Windows 7 can voice them there, and other people with complaints can vote and comment on them. This ends up being a very biased site that you can't extrapolate much useful from. 415 people who took the trouble to go to that specific site to vote for the feature because they want it or stumbled upon it while being annoyed about some other part of Windows isn't a representative poll.

In that other thread I asked for something "better". You are absolutely free to post the results of some better study, if you don't, then I guess we'll have to do with that site. It's at least better than any single personal opinion.

I don't know why you believe this is logical. Most people tend to treat toolbar buttons as simple buttons that perform an action when clicked on, just like in the physical world. They don't interact with drag&drop objects. In my experience, novice users aren't even particularly comfortable with dragging things and often make mistakes. They prefer simple sequential actions. Click file, click delete.

You again speak for most users, why do you keep doing that? Look at that breadcrumb poll. 436 promoted, only 21 demoted. Can you still say that people don't want to drag&drop files? How it's now suddenly simple action to click file, click delete but when customizing DOpus it's supposedly difficult? That doesn't make any sense.

Windows provides the basic functionality that is designed to be accessible to as wide a user base as possible, while third party software caters for more advanced needs.

There are some very annoying things in Windows Explorer that can't be defended with that kind of arguments, I'll show that if this thread doesn't go nuts.

I have to add that even if dumb people would somehow break DOpus, what does it matter, it has a perfectly working backup&restore function.

Edited December 1, 2009 by CuCumber

[nokiaxion]

But does it take a lot of time to change an ugly decade old pie chart in disk properties?

That is not the question.

The question is: Why?

It works. It does what it needs to do. Why change it?

TV: It shows images and plays audio. Why change it?

[HideAndGoatse]

finder works pretty well

[Growled Member]

I can see the possible benefit of allowing the user to customise Explorer more, but what would you actually want to add to it which it doesn't already have?

Dual pane browsing would be nice as well as a move to and copy to button like XP explorer use to have. I used those two buttons all the time.

[petrossa]

I just installed Dopus and i am quite satisfied with the improvement it gives me over explorer, which i always found counterintuitive and cumbersome.

I am now hesitating between explorer++, because the tabbing/tree view is a big improvement and dopus which is way more encompassing but only has dualpane.

The problem with tabbing is that at a certain point you have too many tabs open, but it's extremely easy to copy/move

The dualpane is perfect but you can only have two folders open at the same time.

I guess i'll keep them both and make Dopus standard handler and explorer++ pinned to the taskbar

[hdood]

Hmm? DOpus has tabs and tree views. You can even combine all three.

[petrossa]

Hmm? DOpus has tabs and tree views. You can even combine all three.

Ah? didn't get that far yet. How do you tab?

[petrossa]

how do i open a folder into another tab given this outlay? Can't find anything to do that.

[MS Bob 11]

"The Windows XP Explorer had no search bar, no breadcrumb bar and no favourites sidebar (as far as I can remember). If this software removes any of those fantastic improvements,"

Agree here 100%. The enhancements made in Vista and Windows 7 are definitely a huge step ahead. Unfortunately, it also has some regressions which I simply can't tolerate like compulsory auto sort, not showing folder sizes in columns (and not even allowing shell extensions to do so because it removes the interface required for shell extensions to do so), not showing file sizes without selection or for 15+ files, tree view pane bugs and removals, not even showing the location in the title bar, non-customizable toolbar, removing the overlay icon for shared files, and lots of other small annoyances. So I stand with my OP that Explorer IS sucky because it removes features from Windows XP and 2000. I called it sucky because it's a feature trading bargain. You get some features but you lose a lot of features. Explorer++ may end up eventually adding breadcrumbs and the search box (it already has a Favorites toolbar) but it largely aims to be an Explorer superset under heavy development. Of course I could stop whining and use an alternative that suits me but I am whining because they took away features that worked, for example, there's no security tab when multiple files or multiple folders are selected but in XP there is. Since 2006, there have been more complaints about Explorer in Technet forums yet simple issues like Alt+Enter broken in the tree view pane are not fixed by hotfixes.

I had no intention of writing a flame-bait title, it's just that fanboys IMHO fail to see what they lost in Explorer from XP to Vista.