.Neo Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 (edited) Dropped it how? By trying to move away from using ugly menus? :s By not providing a consistent and clear alternative. Edited December 21, 2009 by .Neo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted December 21, 2009 Subscriber² Share Posted December 21, 2009 Now to wait for Spewboy and crew to implement this a year before Mozilla can :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliott Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Probably because they made the mock-up in Photoshop, which can use a different kind (more Mac OS X-like) of anti-aliassing than Windows. Actually looks like they mocked up the window chrome in Photoshop and used a screenshot from the Mac OS X version of Firefox inside the mocked up Window. :p Certainly makes it a lot prettier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkburn Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 It's pretty funny how developers are struggling with the menu bar location on Windows. Microsoft really dropped the ball on this one starting with Windows Vista. Luckily the Mac OS X version won't have this problem. What, it's "solved" by forcing you to have a menu? Doesn't sound much like solving anything to me. In any case, I think the mockups are pretty interesting and a good sign. Naturally, they're not final, but I think the elements it takes from other sources make sense. You don't have to be different, if as good idea is out there and working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliott Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 What, it's "solved" by forcing you to have a menu? Doesn't sound much like solving anything to me.In any case, I think the mockups are pretty interesting and a good sign. Naturally, they're not final, but I think the elements it takes from other sources make sense. You don't have to be different, if as good idea is out there and working. The problem is that Microsoft really should've created some guidelines to follow. Developers are having to come up with their own solutions which creates an inconsistent experience across applications. Mozilla's doing the best it can by copying the app button thing, but it still seems a little hacked on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George P Global Moderator Posted December 21, 2009 Global Moderator Share Posted December 21, 2009 Have you ever used "Keyword For Search". I can't see any point in having search bar when using that.OH don't start that rubbish. It obviously doesn't look like chrome. Are you looking at the same screenshot I am? Just because it's got the pretty orange menu button at the top and a few extra things moved around doesn't change the fact that it's basically using the Chrome UI as a base. New Opera is looking to do the same thing. Now if you like it or not that's a different subject, but my point stands. And not everyone wants to use the address bar as the search bar, the search box in IE8 and as far as I know in the newest FF have built in features when you do a search in real-time. If you want to just type .g keyword or w/e then go ahead, but I for one would want to keep a search box, at least as a option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted December 21, 2009 Veteran Share Posted December 21, 2009 If they keep the title bar and application icon in the title bar (leaving both that close to the other UI elements), I really hope there is a way to remove them. Currently, I only know of extensions which will remove the title bar text and not the application icon. For the application button, the one with just the Firefox logo, would be nice, but either way, I do like that orange. By not providing a consistent alternative. I prefer the fact they haven't. One of the reasons I hated the ugly 'menubar' is because it became standard in many applications, leading to designers not being able to be creative with certain ideas for their interface. Imagine if the Zune software had that ugly menubar plonked at the top of the application. It's really not a good idea. It should be up to the designer and developer how they implement their settings and other options and now the menubar has been done away with, it's no longer standard to include the ugly menubar :) I don't see why there should be a standard? It gives developers/designers free reign to create imaginative (or at least, nice looking) interfaces - even though they could do so before, when there is no 'standard', they can do so without grief from people - and most intelligent people can work their way around software which does not revolve around a standard interface. The fact some computer users are too stupid to figure out how to use some software (when there are often clear things like a 'wrench' icon to denote 'settings') should not disadvantage software designers and other users, by resulting in awful looking interfaces. You can easily create an intuitive interface which does not follow 'standard' UI elements and Chrome's interface is a fine example. Now to wait for Spewboy and crew to implement this a year before Mozilla can :laugh: Mozilla could very possibly implement this before Spewboy does, but it makes sense not to. The designs are not final yet and it's best to wait on the reaction of the users who see these mock-ups. More ideas may be imagined as well, which could improve these new ideas. Not only that, but it makes sense to include such a big overhaul in a new major version :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrack Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I like it! I like the tabs above the address bar. That makes more sense and is more natural. One of the reasons I hated the ugly 'menubar' is because it became standard in many applications, leading to designers not being able to be creative with certain ideas for their interface. I admit, in my applications I'm utilizing the menu toolbar more-and-more. My users don't like it, but from a programmers perspective it provides a nice platform for adding features without trying to figure out "where am I going to stick this feature on the UI." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Neo Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I prefer the fact they haven't. One of the reasons I hated the ugly 'menubar' is because it became standard in many applications, leading to designers not being able to be creative with certain ideas for their interface. Imagine if the Zune software had that ugly menubar plonked at the top of the application. It's really not a good idea. It should be up to the designer and developer how they implement their settings and other options and now the menubar has been done away with, it's no longer standard to include the ugly menubar :) I don't see why there should be a standard? It gives developers/designers free reign to create imaginative (or at least, nice looking) interfaces - even though they could do so before, when there is no 'standard', they can do so without grief from people - and most intelligent people can work their way around software which does not revolve around a standard interface. The fact some computer users are too stupid to figure out how to use some software (when there are often clear things like a 'wrench' icon to denote 'settings') should not disadvantage software designers and other users, by resulting in awful looking interfaces. You can easily create an intuitive interface which does not follow 'standard' UI elements and Chrome's interface is a fine example. The problem is that Microsoft really should've created some guidelines to follow. Developers are having to come up with their own solutions which creates an inconsistent experience across applications. Mozilla's doing the best it can by copying the app button thing, but it still seems a little hacked on. That's why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stokkolm Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I think the best option for the menu button is the Firefox Logo with the down arrow next to it. It seems more consistent with the standard Windows UI, because it's approximately the same size as the close button on the opposite side of the title bar. I like it in orange, as that is Firefox's trademark color and it's not too much IMO. They are giving you the option of having tabs on top or below the address bar. On top seems like it's going to be the default right now, but if you read the blog post, he specifically says that users will have the option of putting the tabs below the address bar. You can even see it in the alternative mockups. You can say they are copying Chrome all you want, but guess what, everybody is copying everybody. Firefox was the first "big market" browser to feature tabs at all, so you can say Chrome copied that from FF, but positioned them in a more logical area and Mozilla recognizes that. FF is going to offer more customizability than Chrome by allowing users to reposition them below the address bar, which is a good thing. All in all, I think FF 4.0 is going to be a giant leap as far as the UI is concerned and I'm really excited about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMELTN Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I think.....................great wall of text................. I agree with Stokkolm 100% I think that's all 4.0 is about. 3.6 is a great speed boost so they are focusing on UI, and screw saying they are copying Chrome, yatta yatta.. Like others have said, in todays world.. come on.. no one is original anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 The problem is that Microsoft really should've created some guidelines to follow. Developers are having to come up with their own solutions which creates an inconsistent experience across applications. Mozilla's doing the best it can by copying the app button thing, but it still seems a little hacked on. Microsoft have and do provide UI standards and guidelines. It's not their fault if people either don't read them, or ignore them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Star Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I love it, make it now! :D I just hope FireFox does not go in the ways of Chrome and make the tabs on the top. I hate that. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockz Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Opera is doing the same thing with an "orange button": Have to say firefox pulls it off better in the mockups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdood Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Anyone miss the days when the non-client area really was just that? Soon I'll need a magnifying glass to be able to figure out where I can click to actually move the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stetson Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 So they took the mockups that everyone loved and added more gloss and reflection to it. If they keep this up it will look like the atrocious Firefox 3 default theme on Vista. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamp0 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Are you looking at the same screenshot I am? Just because it's got the pretty orange menu button at the top and a few extra things moved around doesn't change the fact that it's basically using the Chrome UI as a base. New Opera is looking to do the same thing. Now if you like it or not that's a different subject, but my point stands. It uses the "Chrome" layout, but it's obviously different, so I don't get why you'd say there running out of ideas. And not everyone wants to use the address bar as the search bar, the search box in IE8 and as far as I know in the newest FF have built in features when you do a search in real-time. If you want to just type .g keyword or w/e then go ahead, but I for one would want to keep a search box, at least as a option. Oh I am not saying take it away. I am just saying, For me, there's no point in a separate search box when I can just use the address bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randolph Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Looking good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted December 21, 2009 Veteran Share Posted December 21, 2009 That's why. Why does it matter if interfaces across applications are different? As I have stated, if Microsoft made something similar to the old 'menu bar' a standard and a guideline, developers and designers would have limited scope to be imaginative when it comes to designing the interface of their application/s. Perhaps this 'standard' or 'guideline' may not be consistent to the rest of the application design? Take the Zune software, for example, or the Office 2010 ribbon - the old-style menubar certainly would not fit in nicely and even if they implemented it using the colours of the application, it would not go with the overall design. It would also mean the nice way certain settings and options have been implemented in the Zune software would not be present - there would be an ugly line of text drop-down links across the top of the software :x I know you suggested Microsoft come up with another standard to replace the menubar, but what I have provided is just an example; whatever Microsoft may come up with, should they decide to come up with some sort of standard, may well not fit in with the designs of certain applications. Do you suggest all applications should display a whole interface uniform with Windows and other Windows applications, just like Apple do with Mac OS X? If so, why? Why should things be consistent in this way? Forcing designers to conform to a standard such as that limits their potential even more - they would not be able to add certain interface niceties and design their software the way they wish. I strongly disagree with this form of consistency because I know that if such was the case, the Zune software would not be as beautiful as it is :p As I have suggested, it does not take a rocket scientist to realise that the 'wrench' button, in Chrome, holds some settings for the application, so the style of consistency you suggest must have nothing to do with the intuitiveness of the application. So, I would like to know why you think such consistency is important? I welcome all of the improvements Mozilla have presented here and look forward to the improvements made to these ideas. They are not copying Chrome exactly, they have just seen what has worked in Chrome, Safari and even Internet Explorer and have taken ideas from both. It's great to see they will provide an option for tabs to be displayed in 3 different places for those who prefer each different placement. I really like the way tabs look below the 'Bookmarks' toolbar, but I have no use for that toolbar, so I'm looking forward to playing around with the new interface when it is released. Not using the application with tabs in the titlebar appears to show more glass, which I'd appreciate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObiWanToby Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I think Skype managed to brand their windows well and it's no way as obtrusive as the orange thing. And sadly for a long time, that branding caused games to minimize during the middle of a match. Took a really long time to figure that one out. It was fixed though. So naturally, I still prefer As for the mockup, that looks wonderful. The text is either from OSX or it is using directwrite, so pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Veteran Posted December 21, 2009 Veteran Share Posted December 21, 2009 Anyone miss the days when the non-client area really was just that?Soon I'll need a magnifying glass to be able to figure out where I can click to actually move the window. I've never had any trouble operating an application, including moving the app. around or performing any other tasks in the titlebar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuCumber Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Soon I'll need a magnifying glass to be able to figure out where I can click to actually move the window. Dragging with a titlebar is so 90's. http://www.autohotkey.com/forum/topic2062....08dd5361cb6efdc http://corz.org/windows/software/accessori...XP-or-Vista.php Put a hotkey on your mouse and start clicking anywhere you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhangm Supervisor Posted December 21, 2009 Supervisor Share Posted December 21, 2009 It is hard to get worse than the crap that we currently have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdood Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I've never had any trouble operating an application, including moving the app. around or performing any other tasks in the titlebar. More and more programs are putting random crap in the title bar. It just gets worse and worse. I expect it will eventually reach the point where someone introduces an amazing new feature that adds a bar to the bottom of the window that you can use to move it and is hailed as a hero and master innovator. It can be called the "move bar." It'll be in Firefox 7 and Opera 49. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theymademedoit Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Please quit copying off Chrome, I find that chrome-esque tab over the top thing is so ugly, you should leave it the old way, and people would be happy, cause I'm certainly not the only one that doesn't want to be reminded of chrome when using firefox :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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