Felix_ Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Does anybody else think that Natal will just be another gimmic controller? Implemented for a few standard type games (racers or fps) but largely unused in favour of a standard controller (or mouse/keyboard). A few dedicated apps may come out for it. People seem to favour this idea of using Natal as a mirror... [From HourBeforeDawn on the Bit-Tech website]there are a lot of neat applications and uses for this. Hell if you a girl youll really get a kick out of it as you can scan in your clothing and then test wear them or even if your friend scanned in their clothing, test wear there to see what you would look like in it, lol thats what all my cousins have been talking about, and the multiperson skeletal structure recolonization where more then one person can be playing at the same time on the same game is neat. There are a lot of other neat concepts that go along with this, so assuming it works out as well as its advertised this would be the first true hands free gaming that worked well. Test wearing clothing? That wont catch on, nothing would actually 'fit' the person person presenting themselves infront the this 'Natal-Mirror'. You might as well take a photo of a dress and yourself and use paint to overlay the dress on top of the person. Think about those dodgy computer programs people sometimes use to try out different hair styles. I'm not heartlessly knocking natal back, i love innovation being an inventor myself. I just fail to see how this concept will graft itself onto a large number of applications. Games like 'My new dress' or 'my new hair style' or 'look at yourself playing with a virtual dog on your living room TV' etc just don't have that timelessness to them that makes a console or franchise great. I can think of one or two apps which might do well but I doubt they'd have a massive impact on how people play games. Hand held Augmented Reality games like those available on the psp (probably the DS too soon) should go like stink I think though. Imagine pok?mon on your hand held where the two combatants actually see each other and both their pok?mon (and maybe those of spectators) on the screen along side themselves, overlaid on top of the real world. Turn your back garden or play field into a pok?mon reserve where you can see the wild ones racing about and try to catch them. Or even training them, having them visibly running alongside you or show emotion towards you based on how you raise them, encouraging you to go out and exorsize with them and battle with others. I'd buy it and i'd imagine kids would go nuts for them. Imagine AR systems implemented in with visors for megazone/paint balling/FPS type games. Or even fantasy games where the environment around you is swarming with Merlocs or whatever just waiting to be bashed over the head with that massive hammer/sword you might be virtually touting, visible to you and others around you playing the same game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phemo Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Yeah, I'm not particularly interested in it. I'm open to the fact that it may be amazing, but the Wii looked awesome and in the end I was very disappointed with it. I'm not getting my hopes up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Derf Veteran Posted January 8, 2010 Veteran Share Posted January 8, 2010 This is all you have to read to make the majority of our forum readers lose interest: The project is aimed at broadening the Xbox 360's audience beyond its typically hardcore base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToneKnee Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Gimmick? Maybe, but it's nice that companies are still innovating, but some stuff I like about Natal is the hand gesture stuff etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massiveterra Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 What's wrong with a company expanding their consumer base? Isn't that what companies do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draconian Guppy Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 In the end, mouse, keyboard and standar controller always prevail. One of the reasons nintendo rolled out "nintendo classic controller". Even though it probably will be impressive the first few times, nothing beats laying down on the couch, controller in hand :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motoko. Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Tbh, I was a bit disappointed when MS announced Natal last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix_ Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 @Phemo, Yeah, the Wii has great sales figure but most of the time it just sits being unused and unloved. My firend has one and never uses it. I brought one for my parents this Christmas and it was used to 30mins on Christmas day (thinking that the games might appeal to their casual gaming nature) and hasn't been used since. @Fred Derf, I was turned off the idea as soon as I read that the market they are going after is the girl gamers. So their killer apps are things like shopping and dancing etc. The girl gaming market has been growing steadily on its own just fine for years. Loads of girls get into RPGs and FPS games just fine, MS don't need to be massively condescending about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmatic Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 from the videos i saw so far, natal's lag will stop it from ever becoming a serious gameplay element... if they reduce that lag, then i can see more hope for it the 'stand up' factor means we have to start being humans with physical bodies, not just a consciousness with a virtual representation.... just because its demoed with Burnout doesnt mean that Natal will have a focus on racing games... and this thing about using it as a mirror is just short-sighted, its about the movement, not the image, and your pokemon idea means you have to stare into the 'mirror' to see your pokemon, think about that for a second just like Wii Fit has been seen as a valid fitness supplement, Natal can be used for everything from rehabilitation to martial arts training... its about getting as much information from human movement as possible, and using the Xbox360 to process and manipulate that information as much as possible... one thing that things like the dualshock and rumble and force feedback controllers have over natal is mechanical feedback of some sort...with natal, the most you will be doing is making imaginary shapes in the air Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionVoltss Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 So far with have had: Guitars Drums Mixdecks Maracas Light guns camera's dance matts wii remote joysticks gamepads mouse skateboards balance board rumble packs power glove virtual boy Im sure there's more, they come and go and no one remembers them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spookie Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 @Fred Derf, I was turned off the idea as soon as I read that the market they are going after is the girl gamers. So their killer apps are things like shopping and dancing etc. The girl gaming market has been growing steadily on its own just fine for years. Loads of girls get into RPGs and FPS games just fine, MS don't need to be massively condescending about it. They don't know that, they want 'demographics' some hugely generalized cross sections of a society which doesn't exist. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin in a box Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Yeah, I'm not particularly interested in it. I'm open to the fact that it may be amazing, but the Wii looked awesome and in the end I was very disappointed with it. I'm not getting my hopes up again. This. I know I don't own a 360 so you might say that this is what any PS3 owner will say, but I just think with this they have gone too far. It's also a way, no matter what anybody says, of Microsoft trying to 'catch up' with Nintendo with the technologies that they are using and the massive userbase they have with that. Whilst it might be amazing and loads of great shooters come out of it, I don't think there's a very large chance of that happening and with the failure of the Wii, in gamers' eyes anyway, a lot might just reject this right away. Even if they are right to do so in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BajiRav Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 They don't know that, they want 'demographics' some hugely generalized cross sections of a society which doesn't exist. :/ People (including me) said the same about Wii's "gimmicky controller" (I still stand by my opinion :p) but look how Nintendo is practically minting money off it. Their accessories market itself feels larger than 360+PS3 combined :laugh:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix_ Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 @Carmatic The pok?mon example was regarding augmented reality on handheld device, it would be more like a 'window' than a mirror. The display could easily be a head mounted display instead as the technology matures. This mobility gives a player freedom to play in a variety of environments. Think, sneaky tabletop games played in the classroom, adventure games outside in the open air. I think standing up waving my arms about inaccurately infront of the TV without any kind of physical feedback would be a pain in the ass. Even the Wii controller winds me up. Ever play that kendo game with the motion+? It's still awful, and in that situation you actually have something to hold onto which produces force feedback and it produces sounds etc. Natal will probably be supplemented with additional motion sensing and force feedback devices you wear on your hands and legs or something to make it more accurate and to provide some sort of physical interaction. It'll be interesting to see what developers come up with for natal and the ps3 equivalent, hopefully they wont just be slightly augmented versions of Wii games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy0 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Natal is only going to work if they get the developers behind it to make decent games, otherwise it just becomes another gimmick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix_ Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 (edited) @+Jimmy What would be a decent game though? Something that lives on in peoples memories for years from now (or even a few months). Something that makes people allways refer back to it when looking at new games and say "yeah, but it's not as good as [blah]" or "[this] is awesome, it's just like [blah]". Fighting game? Nah that was tried with darkwind on the PS2 with gloves on string. It was a laugh for a day but it didn't really hit it off. Some jump and run game like crash or a first person mario/sonic? How long would you stand up in front of the tv on your own before you gave it up for a normal controller? It might be fun for a party but you'd all be standing in front of the screen so your other mates who aren't playing can't see the action. Driving game? Making broom broom sounds with changing pitch to speed up or slow down? It might work till your mum/neighbour/wife comes in and tells you to shut up and go bed. (could be a laugh guess) It may well be that we do end up with more of the kinda apps we got on the Wii, but with slightly better graphics. Maybe some games will implement an avatar system in which natal uses your body as a template for the character you play in game. Maybe a bike accessory with natal watching your arms for paperboy remake ^_^ Edited January 8, 2010 by Molajoku Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironman273 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Nintendo is doing well with the whole "fit" thing. That is probably something that would work well with Natal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massiveterra Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 But the whole point of Natal is to appeal to a more casual market. So who cares if they get the developers behind it if all people will play is Ricochet? I agree that MS will try to get into the fit market. Wii fit sold millions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Lyle Global Moderator Posted January 8, 2010 Global Moderator Share Posted January 8, 2010 Natal is designed for the kids, something that they can jump around on the floor and play. It really isn't targeted at 30 year old men who like playing COD. I personally think natal will be a success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrack Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 The true test will be if Natal is ported and kept going post-360. Natal is only going to work if they get the developers behind it to make decent games, otherwise it just becomes another gimmick. That is going to be the biggest problem, and why I agree that it will probably just become another gimmick. Unlike the Wiimote, Natal will have to be an add-on that people buy separately for their XBox 360. If you develop a game for the 360 that uses the standard controller, you target the whole 360 market. If you develop a game for natal, you are only targeting some fraction of the 360 market. Microsoft will have to bundle Natal with some really kick ass software that will get it on the majority of 360's out there for any 3rd party developer to take it seriously, me thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etempest Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 When something is built in and the primary method of interface (aka Wii for example), publishers will make games that use it (for better or worse). When something is "add-on" to an existing system, allows consumers and game publishers to opt out of the technology. This is the uphill battle MS has to overcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmatic Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Natal will probably be supplemented with additional motion sensing and force feedback devices you wear on your hands and legs or something to make it more accurate and to provide some sort of physical interaction. i think this would be a good idea, you get the full body equivalent of rumble, just like you are using your full body as a controller... also, these wearable devices could be much easier to track than normal human bodyparts, think of those ping pong balls they use for motion capture.... except these devices would probably need to use LED's flashing in a specific colour sequence at the maximum frequency that the Natal cameras can track, or something, since they would be used in an uncontrolled environment and the tracking needs to be more robust, and it wouldnt be doing the full usual processing which makes it so laggy in the first place but anyway, the easier tracking would probably mean less processing and less lag... if they decide to make it even more expensive, they could put acceleration sensors in these devices as a 'first line' of sensing, it could be used to supplement the 3d data from the cameras , and 'cover up' the lag while the true spatial data is being computed but thats just daydreaming... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorwing Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 I found Natal really interesting.. it's kinda like seeing the stuff we see in movies..voice activiation, moving windows within a 3d space.. it's quite cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattmatik Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 I don't know, I think Natal can be very popular. I think the whole Wii-as-a-gimmick thing is way overblown. There are so many folks out there - including young kids - who play their Wii every day and don't want another console. Yeah, hardcore gamers might have it collecting dust but I guarantee you that is a small portion of the user base. Hell, I've had my 360 since day one and just bought a Wii for me and my wife this Christmas and am disappointed for not buying it sooner. Maybe it's me growing away from the typical FPS-type games but I find myself still wanting to sit down and play Super Mario World on Virtual Console than finishing up Assassin's Creed 2. I don't know...Natal will have to go after more than just the Wii Fit crowd because those folks are already getting their want out of it. If Natal can find a way to penetrate the market how Wii Fit did then it can be a huge success. And that is where someone will make the big bucks...or get canned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smigit Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Not that pumped since the FPS games I generally like will probably I imagine not make much use of it. I'm also extremely skeptical as to how much impact it can make coming to the XBox this far into its life cycle. It will have to be pretty affordable IMHO if it is to succeed as well as having a few killer titles to go with it (Ideally it will ship with one). To me it feels a bit late and that ultimately it will serve the purpose as a mass market test for a second version that will ship with the next XBox. I generally don't think perephials/addons that ship late into a consoles life succeed to much of a degree given it forces developers to choose to target a game at only a small subset of the consoles overall market. We'll see but. On that note I think Sony's control has the same problem...if not a larger one since it will be seen as a Wii ripoff where at least Natal is somewhat new assuming it works well in peoples homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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