superstrikertwo Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Just to clarify Jay Leno had nothing to do with this it was all NBC's doing from what I read Leno couldn't get out of his contract so there was really nothing he could have done. NBC was just using him as a pawn to screw over Conan. Leno is going to be on Oprah on Thursday (Jan 28th) to tell his side of the story. That said I like Conan a whole lot more than I like Leno but I have no problems with him I find him funnier than Letterman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Lyle Global Moderator Posted January 23, 2010 Global Moderator Share Posted January 23, 2010 He almost cried when he was telling people not to be cynical. That was some genuine stuff he was saying. I seen / heard that too. His voice suddenly changed and you could tell that in his eyes he was actually speaking form the heart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Shake Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 What an amazing show! It had me laughing and crying constantly throughout it. The montage of the show through the seven months had me doing a little of both, then Neil Young's song had me pretty sad. Conan's speech was beautiful and I'll admit that it did have me sobbing. You could tell how sad he was to be leaving and he didn't say anything angry throughout it. The part about being thankful for the past 20 years and about not being cynical really touched me. You could hear it in his voice and see on his face that he really meant it. Then playing Freebird after that was just fun. I knew he could play guitar, but not like that! I loved what he said about the fans doing zany things and supporting him. Gah! I loved everything he did this past week!!!! I'm going to keep it on my DVR to watch time to time, I've watched him since I was a kid, so almost the whole time he's been on, and I am going to miss him immensely. I didn't watch him every single night when he moved to the Tonight Show, I just sort of thought he was going to be on for years and years. I was usually gaming or something and sometimes watched it later on the DVR. I never, ever, ever, thought this would happen to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentralDogma Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Just to clarify Jay Leno had nothing to do with this it was all NBC's doing from what I read Leno couldn't get out of his contract so there was really nothing he could have done. NBC was just using him as a pawn to screw over Conan. Leno is going to be on Oprah on Thursday (Jan 28th) to tell his side of the story. That said I like Conan a whole lot more than I like Leno but I have no problems with him I find him funnier than Letterman. The reason a lot of fingers are pointed at Jay: Back in 2004 Conan's contract came up and other networks were starting to look at snatching him up. This got NBC pretty worried, so they went to Leno and asked him if he would be willing to cede the Tonight Show to Conan. Jay says "sure no problem, 5 years is plenty of time" and he made an announcement on his show of as much. NBC goes back to Conan and promises him the Tonight Show in 2009 and Conan stays. And all is well... Fast forward to 2007. Leno says, "Hey I don't feel like retiring anymore". As you can imagine, having someone like Leno out on the free market and possibly going to a competing network scares NBC out of their mind. They start throwing suggestions at Leno to keep him on NBC. This ends up creating The Jay Leno Show. While this makes NBC corporate and Leno happy, this kind of screws over the affiliate stations. The affiliates know The Jay Leno Show on 5 nights a week will bring in less viewers than new dramas or comedies, which will also lead to lower rating on their news show. They grumble about it but suck it up for the time being. 2010, the affiliate are seeing even lower rating than predicted. NBC corporate yields and decides to pull The Jay Leno Show. But what to do with Jay? Not only would he become a free agent (which once again scared them out of their minds) but they would have to pay him a handsome severance because of his contract. They decide to move Conan ahead a half hour. Conan objects and here we are today. TLDR: People blame Jay because in 2004 he led people to believe he would retire in 2009 and he hasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckerfan Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 The reason a lot of fingers are pointed at Jay: Back in 2004 Conan's contract came up and other networks were starting to look at snatching him up. This got NBC pretty worried, so they went to Leno and asked him if he would be willing to cede the Tonight Show to Conan. Jay says "sure no problem, 5 years is plenty of time" and he made an announcement on his show of as much. NBC goes back to Conan and promises him the Tonight Show in 2009 and Conan stays. And all is well... Fast forward to 2007. Leno says, "Hey I don't feel like retiring anymore". As you can imagine, having someone like Leno out on the free market and possibly going to a competing network scares NBC out of their mind. They start throwing suggestions at Leno to keep him on NBC. This ends up creating The Jay Leno Show. While this makes NBC corporate and Leno happy, this kind of screws over the affiliate stations. The affiliates know The Jay Leno Show on 5 nights a week will bring in less viewers than new dramas or comedies, which will also lead to lower rating on their news show. They grumble about it but suck it up for the time being. 2010, the affiliate are seeing even lower rating than predicted. NBC corporate yields and decides to pull The Jay Leno Show. But what to do with Jay? Not only would he become a free agent (which once again scared them out of their minds) but they would have to pay him a handsome severance because of his contract. They decide to move Conan ahead a half hour. Conan objects and here we are today. TLDR: People blame Jay because in 2004 he led people to believe he would retire in 2009 and he hasn't. not only all that but the fact that hosting the tonight show has always been a "passing of the torch" kind of thing. Leno should have stuck to his word and rightfully passed on the torch to Conan and let him have it. Conan would have built the show his own way and I'm pretty sure he would have done a good job. like Late Night with Conan, which by the way took a couple years to really get up on its feet. the legacy of the tonight show which Conan held in such high regard has been publicly shat on. that's why there has been a lot of criticism towards Leno. and rightfully so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Dave- Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 for the next 6 months, all us conan fans need to watch letterman :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Star Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 for the next 6 months, all us conan fans need to watch letterman :) Letterman sucks now though. It was very difficult for Conan to say those last words on his show, but he did it in the best way. He did not bash NBC or regret anything that has happened and went off with dignity. With that said, **** NBC for killing off Conan's show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superstrikertwo Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 You can't really blame Leno for not wanting to retire he really isn't that old and it isn't his fault NBC decided to screw over Conan. I'll wait to here what he says on Oprah to make any more judgement but one thing's for sure I will not watch Letterman ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckboii Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Just love O'brian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xero Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 While NBC is more to blame than Leno he didn't have to take their offer. He could have been a man and said, "No, I can't take The Tonight Show back, I gave it to Conan, it's his." Instead he jumped all over it when Conan said he wasn't going to push it back. You don't come and snatch the torch back after passing it on. The least he could do is refuse to take 'The Tonight Show' and just move The Jay Leno Show into the new time slot. The honourable thing to do would be to leave the network completely and leave the new shows untouched. Instead he put Conan in a position where he had to bend over and take it from NBC or stand up for what he believes in and leave the network. Conan was the bigger man here even though Jay's chin outweighs them both. Whatever happens when people look back Leno is going to look like an ass. Returning to host the show after leaving it has forever scarred the history of The Tonight Show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piggy Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 for the next 6 months, all us conan fans need to watch letterman :) You cannot be serious? He's annoying as hell and his parrot of a sidekick makes me want to bash my head against the wall. Why does he still have a job? superstrikertwo 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2687 Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 I don't think I'll be watching much late night tv until Conan returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superstrikertwo Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Like I said earlier though Leno couldn't get out of his contract also Conan was keeping the Tonight Show it was just going to air at 12:05 rather than 11:35. Conan didn't like that so he fought it. Sure Leno could have said after all this he doesn't want the Tonight Show but seriously if you were in his position wouldn't you want it back if offered? I'm not saying what he did was right nor am I backing NBC or Leno's actions I'm simply stating the facts. I'm with Coco :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Growled Member Posted January 24, 2010 Member Share Posted January 24, 2010 Conan is in a good place right now. He is the good guy in all of this mess. Wherever he goes, I'm betting the show is going to be a hit. It would just tickle me if he got on Fox and killed letterman and Leno in the ratings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentralDogma Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 You can't really blame Leno for not wanting to retire he really isn't that old and it isn't his fault NBC decided to screw over Conan. I'll wait to here what he says on Oprah to make any more judgement but one thing's for sure I will not watch Letterman ever. The thing is, no one forced him to retire. Back in 04, he could have told NBC that he wanted to keep doing The Tonight Show. But he didn't, and later changed his mind after deals were already made. IMO, that's where he's at fault. Leno coming back to the Tonight Show after having his "prot?g?" leave because they were trying to reschedule Leno's show isn't too great either. Some would say a more upstanding person might quit rather than due that, but I'm not going to say that that puts Leno "at fault" because, I think, either way Conan would have walked at that stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Dave- Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 You cannot be serious? He's annoying as hell and his parrot of a sidekick makes me want to bash my head against the wall. Why does he still have a job? Letterman is Leno's direct competition, so yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrKuro Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 the last show was great; extremely funny, and the speech he gave was very touching.. that man went out with class. even the song they did at the end was well done... conan can sure play that guitar well! farewll coco.... see ya on whatever network you go to next! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fix-this! Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 so what happens to the tonight show then? is leno taking it back over? if he is i can see fail written all over it. nobody will watch it. personaly i never liked conan but i wish him the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Growled Member Posted January 24, 2010 Member Share Posted January 24, 2010 ^ Yeah, Leno is taking it back over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayepecks Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 The reason a lot of fingers are pointed at Jay: Back in 2004 Conan's contract came up and other networks were starting to look at snatching him up. This got NBC pretty worried, so they went to Leno and asked him if he would be willing to cede the Tonight Show to Conan. Jay says "sure no problem, 5 years is plenty of time" and he made an announcement on his show of as much. NBC goes back to Conan and promises him the Tonight Show in 2009 and Conan stays. And all is well... Fast forward to 2007. Leno says, "Hey I don't feel like retiring anymore". As you can imagine, having someone like Leno out on the free market and possibly going to a competing network scares NBC out of their mind. They start throwing suggestions at Leno to keep him on NBC. This ends up creating The Jay Leno Show. While this makes NBC corporate and Leno happy, this kind of screws over the affiliate stations. The affiliates know The Jay Leno Show on 5 nights a week will bring in less viewers than new dramas or comedies, which will also lead to lower rating on their news show. They grumble about it but suck it up for the time being. 2010, the affiliate are seeing even lower rating than predicted. NBC corporate yields and decides to pull The Jay Leno Show. But what to do with Jay? Not only would he become a free agent (which once again scared them out of their minds) but they would have to pay him a handsome severance because of his contract. They decide to move Conan ahead a half hour. Conan objects and here we are today. TLDR: People blame Jay because in 2004 he led people to believe he would retire in 2009 and he hasn't. Your version of the story is drastically different than what Leno specifically stated on his own show. I'm sorry, but I believe Leno's first-hand account over a ninth-hand account I read on the Internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Lyle Global Moderator Posted January 24, 2010 Global Moderator Share Posted January 24, 2010 The reason a lot of fingers are pointed at Jay: Back in 2004 Conan's contract came up and other networks were starting to look at snatching him up. This got NBC pretty worried, so they went to Leno and asked him if he would be willing to cede the Tonight Show to Conan. Jay says "sure no problem, 5 years is plenty of time" and he made an announcement on his show of as much. NBC goes back to Conan and promises him the Tonight Show in 2009 and Conan stays. And all is well... Fast forward to 2007. Leno says, "Hey I don't feel like retiring anymore". As you can imagine, having someone like Leno out on the free market and possibly going to a competing network scares NBC out of their mind. They start throwing suggestions at Leno to keep him on NBC. This ends up creating The Jay Leno Show. While this makes NBC corporate and Leno happy, this kind of screws over the affiliate stations. The affiliates know The Jay Leno Show on 5 nights a week will bring in less viewers than new dramas or comedies, which will also lead to lower rating on their news show. They grumble about it but suck it up for the time being. 2010, the affiliate are seeing even lower rating than predicted. NBC corporate yields and decides to pull The Jay Leno Show. But what to do with Jay? Not only would he become a free agent (which once again scared them out of their minds) but they would have to pay him a handsome severance because of his contract. They decide to move Conan ahead a half hour. Conan objects and here we are today. TLDR: People blame Jay because in 2004 he led people to believe he would retire in 2009 and he hasn't. Thanks for posting that. I was a little confused as to why they pulled the Jay Leno Show.. but I seen a preview for that on TV, which didn't last more than a few months. I was confused about who Jay Leno and Conan worked for, and when people mentioned they both work for NBC, it boggled me why this is all happening now. Thanks (Y) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentralDogma Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Your version of the story is drastically different than what Leno specifically stated on his own show. I'm sorry, but I believe Leno's first-hand account over a ninth-hand account I read on the Internet. Here's a clip from 2004 of Leno explaining the situation. The only point of contention may be him saying "I?m not quitting show business", which I think many thought was referring to him continuing stand-up. Also, here's a Times article that agrees with what I've written(starting at "While O?Brien was concentrating..."). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayepecks Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 (edited) Here's a clip from 2004 of Leno explaining the situation. The only point of contention may be him saying "I’m not quitting show business", which I think many thought was referring to him continuing stand-up. Also, here's a Times article that agrees with what I've written(starting at "While O’Brien was concentrating..."). No. You stated that Leno was going to "retire" after the Tonight Show. He never said he was going to retire. He said the Tonight Show would be Conan's. And he gave it to Conan, just as he promised he would. There was no contention on that part. The Jay Leno Show was specifically created to keep Leno at NBC, yes, they've said that many times. But your post essentially slams Leno, by saying it was done to keep "Leno happy." Let's be honest: he could've gone to any network and been happy. He wasn't trying to keep the Tonight Show. Your post makes it seem like he was. And the things you just cited don't corroborate any of your account of Jay being unhappy about losing the Tonight Show. Your entire post stretches the truth about what Leno said. He said he would relinquish the Tonight Show. Nothing more, nothing less. He said he couldn't see himself doing it in his 60's as Johnny Carson did, but he never stated anything about getting out of show business entirely, which is what your entire story hinges on. In fact, Jay specifically stated, "I’m not quitting show business." Basically, you're blaming the wrong person here. Leno isn't doing anything to be a jerk to Conan. He wasn't trying to keep the Tonight Show. He just wanted somewhere to do his own show, which falls completely in line with his statement of wanting to stay in show business. If he didn't stay at NBC, so what? That's their problem. They shouldn't have promised Conan the Tonight Show if they wanted to make sure they'd keep Leno there. Because without the Tonight Show, Leno can do anything. They chose an option to keep Leno at NBC. That was NBC's choice. If you're going to place the blame somewhere, place it on NBC, where it belongs. I'm not saying this because I like Leno more than Conan... quite the contrary, in fact. I'm saying this because you're placing blame where it shouldn't be and you're editorializing a story that is plain facts, not opinions. I'm not going to search for it, but Jay addressed the issue on his show a few days ago, and it is in-line with the above video from 2004, it just gives more facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentralDogma Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 The Jay Leno Show was specifically created to keep Leno at NBC, yes, they've said that many times. But your post essentially slams Leno, by saying it was done to keep "Leno happy." Let's be honest: he could've gone to any network and been happy. He wasn't trying to keep the Tonight Show. Your post makes it seem like he was. ...He said he would relinquish the Tonight Show. Nothing more, nothing less. Yeah, that was the problem. He forced NBC's hand and said, "give me another show or I'll go to another network". Now I don't know how you can look at that clip from 2004 and think he meant that at the time. It certainly looks like a retirement, sans the one "I'm not going to quit show business" comment he made that could easily mean "I'm going to continue doing stand up". At the very least, he misrepresented himself to his bosses (Zucker: ?It became clear that Jay wanted to continue telling jokes on television at 11:30?). It's very obvious, to me at least, that Leno wanting to continue doing a 5 nights a week show is something he wanted down the road when he began to regret his retirement. And the article agrees with me on that. I'm not suggesting this was a big conspiracy on Leno's part to get back the Tonight Show. That?s pretty out there and almost cartoonishly villainly. And the things you just cited don't corroborate any of your account of Jay being unhappy about losing the Tonight Show. Here, I'll just quote it: While O?Brien was concentrating on his final show and his plans for ?The Tonight Show,? Jay Leno was becoming more and more unhappy about the idea of retiring from late-night television. Nearly five years ago, in September 2004, he honored NBC?s wish to replace him with O?Brien. Leno made the announcement on the 50th anniversary of ?The Tonight Show,? saying that he would exit the stage in 2009, when he would be nearly 60. ?You can do these things until they carry you out on a stretcher, or you can get out when you?re still doing good,? Leno told the audience. ?I?m not quitting show business, but I realized I?m not spending enough time with my cars.? Leno, who has more than 100 vintage cars, which he stores in an airplane hangar in Burbank, began to reconsider his farewell two years ago. ?We?re still on top,? Leno told me when I visited him at ?The Tonight Show? in early May. Leno was dressed in a blue work shirt tucked into worn jeans, and we spoke in a small, anonymous backstage dressing room. His dark green, sharklike car (he drives a different one every day), a rare model called a Tatra, was parked right outside the studio; its exoticism provided a vivid contrast with Leno?s regular-guy-ness. ?Five years ago,? Leno continued, ?I think they thought we wouldn?t still be on top. Back then, I said, ?Whatever you want.? I don?t have an agent. I don?t have a manager. If the girl doesn?t want to sleep with you, that?s O.K. I?m not one of those guys who says, ?Why don?t you want to sleep with me?? I say, ?O.K., great ? let?s be friends.? You want to make a change? That?s great ? we?ll make a change.? As he became increasingly disgruntled, Leno began entertaining offers from other networks. Although viewership on network TV is shrinking and advertising is migrating to cable and (to a lesser degree) to the Web, topical shows with comedy and celebrity guests are inexpensive to produce and maintain a consistent appeal. Leno is a name brand ? he could easily move to ABC or Fox and become O?Brien?s competition, which is what NBC feared. ?It became clear that Jay wanted to continue telling jokes on television at 11:30,? Zucker said. To entice him to stay at NBC, Zucker offered Leno a daytime show, a cable show, a series of specials. When Leno turned all those down, Zucker proposed a half-hour show, five nights a week at 8 p.m. The idea was that Leno would just do his monologue, riffing off the events of the day. ?Eight p.m. doesn?t work,? Leno explained to me. ?I never assume anyone is watching because I?m good-looking. You?re selling a product. In my particular instance, the product, hopefully, is jokes. With ?The Tonight Show,? you have the jokes plus Angelina Jolie, and that?s a little more enticement. A half-hour monologue every night doesn?t seem like enough enticement.? Zucker made his final plea: an hourlong show at 10 p.m., five nights a week. To Zucker?s surprise, Leno agreed. ?I have believed, for a long time, that there should be a daily prime-time program with a topical format,? Zucker told me. Take that as you will, but, IMO, that's basically what I paraphrased. Basically, you're blaming the wrong person here. Leno isn't doing anything to be a jerk to Conan. He wasn't trying to keep the Tonight Show. He just wanted somewhere to do his own show, which falls completely in line with his statement of wanting to stay in show business. If he didn't stay at NBC, so what? That's their problem. They shouldn't have promised Conan the Tonight Show if they wanted to make sure they'd keep Leno there. Because without the Tonight Show, Leno can do anything. They chose an option to keep Leno at NBC. That was NBC's choice. If you're going to place the blame somewhere, place it on NBC, where it belongs. I'm not saying this because I like Leno more than Conan... quite the contrary, in fact. I'm saying this because you're placing blame where it shouldn't be and you're editorializing a story that is plain facts, not opinions. I think you're getting the wrong idea from my post. I never accused Leno of actively going out and screwing Conan with these actions and trying to steal the Tonight Show from him with a plot going back to 2004. I've heard other's say that, but to me that sound pretty out there. It would require Leno to have thought up a whole lot of situations that would have put many a Xanatos Roulette to shame! The blame Leno takes for all this is in him reversing his retirement. I don't think Leno is really a bad person because of that, but he is certainly at some fault for this whole predicament. And, yes, I think NBC deserves the lion share of the blame for writing Leno that new contract for the Jay Leno Show. NBC should have drawn a line somewhere and they never did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2687 Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Tilda Swinton on Playing Conan O'Brien: 'Yes, Yes, Yes, Absolutely' Written by Kyle Buchanan | 25 Jan 2010, 1:10 PM | 4 comments On Conan O?Brien?s final Tonight Show, he earned one of his biggest laughs when he said that if HBO decided to make a movie about the recent late-night fiasco, he?d ?like to be played by Academy Award-winner Tilda Swinton.? I just finished interviewing Swinton at Sundance to promote her new film I Am Love, and I decided (without any authorization from HBO whatsoever) to make her a formal offer for the red-headed role. Do we have a rare bit of good news for the beleaguered O?Brien? ?I?ve heard about Conan!? Swinton said excitedly when I broached the subject. ?I?m so thrilled.? So would she be willing to take on the challenge of playing him? After all, Swinton has bent genders onscreen before, as anyone who?s seen her 1992 film Orlando would know. ?I would just be only too happy,? she beamed. ?Yes, yes, yes, absolutely.? Then, pondering the offer, she decided to return the favor and solicit from O?Brien. ?What I really would love to do is get him to do some of the things I get to do. It would be nice if he were here at Sundance maybe, wearing this coat, talking about I Am Love.? It might seem like a tall order for O?Brien, but he certainly has several months of unemployment to pull off such a switch. ?And why not?? Swinton said. ?Every girl should have a doppleganger.? [Photo Credit: Jeff Vespa/Getty Images] http://www.movieline.com/2010/01/tilda-swinton-on-playing-conan-obrien-yes-yes-yes-absolutely.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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