What would you be interested in hearing about?


Recommended Posts

I'm doing a talk in a couple of weeks to a local photography club - they have mostly amateurs but a couple of pros in their ranks.

The talk is on Forensic Photography (as that is indeed what, among other tasks, I do for a living).

Just on the basis of the (non)knowledge you may already have what would any of the photographers here be interested in hearing about?

I have sent an email to the organiser asking a similar question - I have a clear train of thought on my chat and display for the talk but would like to gloss over the chaff and get into the stuff non-forensic guys might be interested in.

So, I ask again, on the basis of the (non)knowledge you may already have about photography in the forensic world, what would any of the photographers here be interested in hearing about?

Appreciate any replies (and I will try and post the ppt/talk notes/images/discussion from the eventual input I give)

Malc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just on the basis of the (non)knowledge you may already have what would any of the photographers here be interested in hearing about?

So, I ask again, on the basis of the (non)knowledge you may already have about photography in the forensic world, what would any of the photographers here be interested in hearing about?

You know on CSI when they have a photo that they "enhance" to show the killer's face in the reflection of the dead cat ladies' eye, what kind of camera takes those pictures?

More seriously I'd be interested in how photos are tracked to show aren't manipulated or degrading from when they're shot to when they're used as part of an investigation.

How are they stored to ensure pictures aren't accidentally or intentionally lost, etc.

I also suspect you probably can't lug around a dozen external flashes and tripods so how do you deal with really adverse lighting. Any tips?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know on CSI when they have a photo that they "enhance" to show the killer's face in the reflection of the dead cat ladies' eye, what kind of camera takes those pictures?

We use a Konica Minolta KD-310. lol

More seriously I'd be interested in how photos are tracked to show aren't manipulated or degrading from when they're shot to when they're used as part of an investigation.

How are they stored to ensure pictures aren't accidentally or intentionally lost, etc.

I also suspect you probably can't lug around a dozen external flashes and tripods so how do you deal with really adverse lighting. Any tips?

Excellent, in my thoughts regarding image capture I forgot about manipulation and editing of crime scene photos - will be added.

As for flashes and tripods - I have a sturdy manfrotto for photography (and one with a fluid head for video) and an SB800 for flash and an additional Metz CL45 but I only ever use that when "flash-slinging" (that is painting with flash at a night scene). But that's it. One of the main differences between CSI and Pro Photogs is balancing light in a scene, not as important to make it look nice as it is to make sure you can see the relevant detail in the image.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I too would like to know how you keep track so that photos aren't fiddled with.

Also, in CSI there's always the killers reflection in the stoplight, But in real life, what real use do you give forensic photography and what added value or headroom does it to case solving and would you say if forensic photography is something needed.

On the equipment note i'd like to know as to what is acceptable to take a photography, say you're out in the dessert for some odd case or whatever and your camera gear gets forgotten, damaged or whatever and a sandstorm is predicted for the next couple of hours, Would your camera phone be taken as valid evidence or what would be done in said cases?

As for post-processing, what kind of post processing is allowed? If any?

P.S. Mind you any vague idea I might have regarding foresinc photography is largely based of CSIs so :p

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I too would like to know how you keep track so that photos aren't fiddled with.

Also, in CSI there's always the killers reflection in the stoplight, But in real life, what real use do you give forensic photography and what added value or headroom does it to case solving and would you say if forensic photography is something needed.

On the equipment note i'd like to know as to what is acceptable to take a photography, say you're out in the dessert for some odd case or whatever and your camera gear gets forgotten, damaged or whatever and a sandstorm is predicted for the next couple of hours, Would your camera phone be taken as valid evidence or what would be done in said cases?

As for post-processing, what kind of post processing is allowed? If any?

P.S. Mind you any vague idea I might have regarding foresinc photography is largely based of CSIs so :p

Things like reflections in stop lights etc are easily possible but not easily obtained. It really comes down to a cop or whatever being made a ware that there is a camera at the scene at the time of the incident and not really under the umbrella of Forensic Photography, at least not practical photography.

Mostly, forensic photography, along with finerprint/DNA/other evidence types recovery, is used as a crime scene reconstruction tool enable those not present at the scene the ability to view and piece together the events of the incident. There is more to it but I'll try to keep that for my talk notes (like I say I'll try and post what I can if people are interested in reading it/looking at images).

As for equipment redundancy. We have or given cameras and those are expected to be used but in extreme circumstances as you have described then (where another examiner could not reach you in time with a replacement) you would be able to use another imaging device such as your mobile phone (though I've got an iPhone 3G so I'd be better off drawing the scene than using that)providing the image capture and storage process is followed correctly. Using other persons photographs (not examiners) is possible but it requires permission from both the prosecution AND the defence parties due to the potential for tampering.

PP? levels adjustments and Hue/Saturation adjustments on a copy of the master image. Nothing more. "Enhancement not Alteration"

Thanks for your input. Anyone else?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you do photography with filters? Specially colored lights? Black Light? etc. What focal length do you use for X or Y case??

I use a few different filters. Mainly a Circular polariser combined with polarised flash. Gives excellent flat un-flared cross-polarised colours and detail with injury photographs. Really good with bruise periphery - the yellow stages of a bruise flare up like the skin has been died with iodine!

Also I use a crimelite with specific wavelengths that fluoresces different compounds and contamination - filter required to see the goods - check my "Light Play" set on my Flickr account (or search flickr for "crimelite") for examples.

We do UV and IR photography but it is limited as the cameras we have are on sensitive to IR/UV, I'm currently trying to justify to the work the cost of getting two Fuji S3 Pros that no longer get used converted to true IR and UV cameras.

As for focal length. General scene shots are wide angle. Marks and Road Accidents are shot with 50mm (cos it's more like the human eye apparently) but that makes it difficult to get everything in in particular shots due to the sensor crop. The tightest lens I have is a 75mm short zoom (nikkor 18-75mm lens) and the widest is a 8mm fisheye lens used (solely by me) for panoramic VR shots but it hasnt been used (at work) for about 2 years as any major incidents where spherical images are needed then the fancy-dan Spheron AG camera comes out to play (Spheron camera - its quite cool, specially the HDR range).

This is all good stuff people. I'm already tweaking the notes and displays to fit in with the questions here, though i am holding some back as I have to leave room for questions at the end. I'm also trying my best to get some representative images that don't give too much away about the location/scene/bodies/etc so that I am able to both present to the group and possibly post online for those interested.

If there is anymore I'm glad to answer.

Cheers

Malc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You said you shoot nik, I know on Canon semi-pro/pro models they actually have a tamper security capability built into the camera - the cameras can embed PSK data themselves out of the box, but they need extra hardware from Canon to verify the files. Do you use this, or something similar on niks, or do you use your own home-grown tamper security stuff?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You said you shoot nik, I know on Canon semi-pro/pro models they actually have a tamper security capability built into the camera - the cameras can embed PSK data themselves out of the box, but they need extra hardware from Canon to verify the files. Do you use this, or something similar on niks, or do you use your own home-grown tamper security stuff?

Tamper security? good question, here is where I believe our organisation has a lot of work to do to really qualify as an international leader in the field.

Na nothing like that. Our cameras are personal issue and unless in use they are kept locked away (in a camera bag) either inside the Scene Examination vehicle or in our locked offices when off duty. No further security on the equipment than that. As for the images. they are just simply burned to disc (sometimes duplicated depending on the level of incident) at the scene to a master disk using a ?200 portable Apacer CD burner (I know they are ?200 cos I've had to get a replacement recently from exhausting the first drive).

The reality is that historically there has been no issue with tampering with equipment as the criminals we deal with day to day are not what you'd call...er...clever (I guess, lol).

However, in the last year I have been part of a group that have written Standard Operating Procedures for all aspects of CSI(like) work across the country and along with those SOP comes accreditation and, hopefully, funds to enhance and maintain the good practices we already operate. The bad new with that is that like any organisation the Scottish Police Services Authority are obsessed with branding and public perception rather than ensuring the core service runs as it should so that means equipment is lower on the purchase order than a new polo shirt with the most recent company logo on it.

So, maybe in the future we'll see a better take on tamper security and, indeed, file security (I mean it's 2010, why can't we transmit images from scene direct to the investigation team at the Police Station? Oh, yeah, cos we had to use the money to buy every one a mug with the company logo on it!) but it is a big maybe.

Wait, how did that turn into a rant? I'll have to remember not to do that on the night of the talk, lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Well I did my talk tonight to the local camera club.

There was about 25-30 folk in the audience and it went very well indeed with genuine interest from the folks watching and thanks for my detailing of settings/techniques in taking the photographs I was able to show them.

Got a fair few questions though none of the ones as asked in this thread as I ended up covering them while talkin. I think that mostly because I didn't write any notes to read from. I just usually make a ppt with a few slides showing 1-5 (max) bullet points and talk around those points (really don't like talks/presentations where everything that is being said is written on the slide - whats the point?)

Anyways, cheers for the questions in the thread and with a little editing (and a writing of some general blurb to go with so it all makes sense) I might be able to post a version of the ppt/images if anyone desires a look.

Cheers

Malc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.