DRMs - This is how it should be done!


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Bring back the days of instruction manuals with puzzles to work out the code that changes everytime you start the game haha :laugh:

Haha. I had forgotten all about those. Fun times.

Also, all forms have DRM have ways around them. It's not going to make it any more prone to pirating by not have the protection on it. It just causes more problems than it solve, in my opinion. I will never buy anything with DRM included. If I want that on another device, then I should be able to put it there. Not buy a copy for every device I own.

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Instead of focusing on DRM which seems to be unfruitful, game developers should focus on content distribution. They should release their games on Steam or Impulse. By doing that, they get rid of a fair portion of the game's inevitable piracy. And they gain the opportunity to secure a decent amount of sales.

Take a look at this article about Steam: http://www.vg247.com/2010/01/29/valve-steam-has-over-25-million-accounts-unit-sales-up-205/

Over 25 million accounts and yearly 100% growth. I'm not trying to advertise for Steam or anything. It's just that, they're on top right now in the digital distribution market and developers should take full advantage of that. There's Steam Cloud to sync save files and settings and Steamworks for anti-piracy and autoupdating (useful for patches and DLC). You even have anti-cheat technology in the form of VAC (Valve Anti-Cheat).

Steam does not seem to be any harder to crack and release than any other copy protection system but of course Steam is not a copy protection system but a content distribution system. VAC means nothing to some one that is downloading from a torrent given the fact the game will not be able to play on-line anyway. Once Steam is cracked you no longer have to worry about autopatching and the DLC shows up on the torrents site just as fast as it gets cracked.

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I guess one solution is to just remove DRM completely and act in good faith. It can really bite you on the backside but, especially if the game leaks early.

Other one I think would be to make gameplay online only, even if playing in a single player mode. Now that will obviously alienate some people and **** everyone else off but I think most gamers now days would have a net connection as standard so it should be ok. If I was to do this but I'd be making damn sure I sugarcoated the entire thing with the ability to follow stats for both online and single player games as well as other things like online saves ect. Make the online aspect "part of the experience" basically so it almost seems essential to the gameplay. Hell it might encourage a community of people doing speed runs or whatever.

Ultimatly it is and will remain an issue....I just think devs have to be careful not to scare away legit customers with bad drm models. Saying you have 5 activations for instance is a real PITA and I'd rather log into the server each play than have to count how many installs I have left or call a number. If you treat your customers well they typically respond ok, things like Steam show this. Yes, the games can be hacked but it seems to me to be growing quite well despite that.

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Tell it to someone who cares. I own this disk, I own what is on it.

You don't! You own a license to access and use what's on it and that license comes with terms and usage restrictions...

...which suck balls!

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You don't! You own a license to access and use what's on it and that license comes with terms and usage restrictions...

...which suck balls!

That is such a lame argument. The legal side of things doesn't even matter. You own the product. You get to live with whatever the product includes.

Which is basically saying the same thing, but without the pointless crap.

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You don't! You own a license to access and use what's on it and that license comes with terms and usage restrictions...

...which suck balls!

Anyone who tries to restrict my use of what I am supposed to own (like, for example, only be able to play while online, only be able to install a game 3 times, etc), makes my life a lot easier. Understand what you will from this.

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[...]

Having digital distribution and standard media retail products available broadens choice, but increases costs. Those costs have to be passed to licensees. A lot of people like the good old disc + serial number method, especially for games that do not require online activation.

I thought those costs were taken care of by the publisher. Yes, I agree that people still like the old fashioned disc + serial number method; however, buying and downloading games online is becoming more and more popular. It's easier to sit at home and pay for a game via PayPal or credit card and download it as soon as it's available than wait in line at a store.

Steam does not seem to be any harder to crack and release than any other copy protection system but of course Steam is not a copy protection system but a content distribution system. VAC means nothing to some one that is downloading from a torrent given the fact the game will not be able to play on-line anyway. Once Steam is cracked you no longer have to worry about autopatching and the DLC shows up on the torrents site just as fast as it gets cracked.

It may mean nothing to a pirate, but it's definitely a plus for a developer. They don't have to create in-house anti-cheat technology or use an alternative like PunkBuster. You're right though, Valve isn't copy protection. However, they do offer retail encryption which, in my opinion, would prevent the game from leaking before the release date. Or at least make it significantly harder for it to leak.

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The problem has always been how publishers see the problem. Online verification of ownership is the smartest way to do it (you can ensure the key is genuine and etc), but it can't be forced down the throat of the consumer. You do it best by releasing the game without any DRM, but offering free add-ons that require the consumer to have a legal CD key to access them.

Those updates can have an online protection scheme to verify ownership on install...

You make the pirate upset that he does get access to the game, but all that cool new content is out of his reach... But this requires investments in the game and its community after release. Something publishers seem to never think about.

They continue to shove this crazy DRM down our throats only because of the current sales model. We are usually NOT informed of how draconian the DRM is on the box, but only find out AFTER we buy the game and attempt to play it. Meaning we can never request our money back and they run off smiling. If they were forced to handle DRM related returns their business model would change fast. They don't care about us after they close the sale because they don't have to and DRM is one of those things that people only gripe about post-sale.

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This method also fails. There has not been one important enough game whose DLC was not cracked immediately after release. The only proper DRM is making good games.

That is it. Oh, and of course, not treat the customers like fifth-class citizens. Delaying a game on PC for 6 months just to find the same crappy console port will not win anyone.

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It is the legally standing argument.

I quite clearly pointed out that I dislike it's implementation.

The point I was making is legal talk and real people don't go together.

You can tell me all the finer points of the law in several paragraphs and/or pages, and I can say the same thing in twenty words or less.

Unless you actually are a lawyer, I don't see the point to it. Even then it's useful in a courtroom, not a general discussion.

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...

Anyway, the assumption that this is only about DRM also fails. I assume Ubisoft is getting the benefit of having a platform to host DLC from (which they didn't have with Prince of Persia,) being able to submit the same package to all digital vendors and retail, making sure everyone has proper autopatching without having to submit the updated code to every digital service...

And probably more that I haven't thought of. Should save them some effort in the long run.

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This method also fails. There has not been one important enough game whose DLC was not cracked immediately after release. The only proper DRM is making good games.

That is it. Oh, and of course, not treat the customers like fifth-class citizens. Delaying a game on PC for 6 months just to find the same crappy console port will not win anyone.

For sure it has to start with a good game. The method works when the game is good and the updates are also good.

It isn't about trying to end piracy as that isn't possible. It is about ensuring the paying customers feel very good about their purchase so they care about repeating them and excluding the pirate from those enhancements. The end result is the pirate feels left out and is encouraged to get the game so he doesn't feel inconvienced and left out. All the while, the paying customer never feels the same way.

The pirate you are out to change is the one who would actually buy the game. The pirate that just simply will pirate and never buy will never be changed...

A great example would be Sins of a Solar Empire for me. I remember when the game launched I wasn't in the least bit interested. I'm a big RTS fan, but didn't think the game would hold my attention. A bud of mine of brought a pirated copy over and attempted to convince me it was a game I'd actually enjoy and gave me a copy to install. Which I did. Turned out I actually did like the game.

When I was given the game it wasn't immediately after release. So there were a lot of updates. Initially not having them didn't matter as I didn't know if I like the game or not. But once I realized I liked the game and I wanted the updates I gladly paid for the game and the resulting updates. I have also purchased the Entrenchment expansion and probably will purchase Diplomacy as well.

I prefer to buy my software so I always end up buying what I care about, but my Sins purchased was made a lot quicker thanks to their good community building and updates.

My bud, who seems to only like piracy, still has the game, but doesn't have any of the updates past 1.05 since you need to own the game to get them... The guys who crack the games aren't as interesting in cracking the updates :p... As a result you can get Sins on torrents everywhere and you'll get it DRM free just like I do on my boxed copy, but you don't get the updates... Brilliant :)

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You know what the problem with this silly DLC is? They cut stuff from the game that should have been there and some even dare ask cash for it! Where are the days of user created mods? Now every game looks for ways to encrypt and compress its content to prevent people making mods? Why? Because they want to control the only to introduce additional content - cash. This is a no go in my book. Look at Mass Effect 2. All that crap that was put as free DLC should have already been in the game. Or the Assassin Creed 2 DLC. In fact, almost all DLC has been so far a way to milk cash out of a retarded gaming generation willing to spend stupendous amounts of cash for a 3 maps mappack that would have been free 5 years ago (or made by the community for free). :rolleyes:

You mention Sins of a Solar Empire, and indeed, this game is the mother lode proof that DRM fails. The game was released without any bullsh`t DRM, and yet, has sold incredibly well. Why? Because it was an amazing game.

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In fact, almost all DLC has been so far a way to milk cash out of a retarded gaming generation willing to spend stupendous amounts of cash for a 3 maps mappack that would have been free 5 years ago (or made by the community for free). :rolleyes:

Look, jerk, I buy DLC because I support companies spending record amounts of dough to make me awesome games. If the DLC wasn't worth buying I wouldn't buy it. Calling me and millions of others retarded because we disagree with you is unnecessary.

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Cry me a river. It is because of this dumb DLC mentality that we have games that are as thin as Steve Jobs these days. Then they wonder why piracy is prevalent on PC. It's because we remember when we used to get full games as opposed to skeletons. It's because we remember we used to get mod tools with almost any game. It's because we remember we used to get good games. We won't settle for crap.

BTW, I didn't insult you. If you deduced I insulted you from what I said, that is your problem. Go buy a mappack for 10$ on your silly little Xbot.

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You know what the problem with this silly DLC is? They cut stuff from the game that should have been there and some even dare ask cash for it! Where are the days of user created mods? Now every game looks for ways to encrypt and compress its content to prevent people making mods? Why? Because they want to control the only to introduce additional content - cash. This is a no go in my book. Look at Mass Effect 2. All that crap that was put as free DLC should have already been in the game. Or the Assassin Creed 2 DLC. In fact, almost all DLC has been so far a way to milk cash out of a retarded gaming generation willing to spend stupendous amounts of cash for a 3 maps mappack that would have been free 5 years ago (or made by the community for free). :rolleyes:

You mention Sins of a Solar Empire, and indeed, this game is the mother lode proof that DRM fails. The game was released without any bullsh`t DRM, and yet, has sold incredibly well. Why? Because it was an amazing game.

Thanks for that. As I forgot to mention the updates would have to be free.

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Don't get me wrong, I am all for well made DLC, or as I prefer to call them, expansion packs, a term that seems to be long gone from daily use. Take a loot at the GTA4 DLC packs. They had amazing amount of content for the price. I have no problem buying a comprehensive expansion pack that is worth the money. :)

The problem for me is all the silly bite-sized content that sell for crazy amounts of cash over at Xbot Live, because people are willing to shell cash over every silly little thing. And why wouldn't companies abuse that?

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The point I was making is legal talk and real people don't go together.

You can tell me all the finer points of the law in several paragraphs and/or pages, and I can say the same thing in twenty words or less.

Unless you actually are a lawyer, I don't see the point to it. Even then it's useful in a courtroom, not a general discussion.

Now you're saying that you don't like legal talk. You not liking it does not invalidate the facts.

Fact 1: you own the physical media (CD/DVD/Blu-ray) on which content is provided.

Fact 2: content on said media is licensed to you under certain terms and conditions, but you don't have exclusive ownership rights to it.

You may not like Fact 2, but it would still be upheld in a court of law.

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Cry me a river. It is because of this dumb DLC mentality that we have games that are as thin as Steve Jobs these days. Then they wonder why piracy is prevalent on PC. It's because we remember when we used to get full games as opposed to skeletons. It's because we remember we used to get mod tools with almost any game. It's because we remember we used to get good games. We won't settle for crap.

BTW, I didn't insult you. If you deduced I insulted you from what I said, that is your problem. Go buy a mappack for 10$ on your silly little Xbot.

Yes, you rather did, and I've never bought a map pack. I don't play multiplayer, so I probably never will.

I'd rather be civil, so I suppose I can leave it at whats already been said.

And yes, I agree that some DLC releases aren't worthy to be sold at any price. But as to the general trend, I love it. Expansions never did jack for me... usually too long since I moved onto other games. DLC is a completely different story.

Now you're saying that you don't like legal talk. You not liking it does not invalidate the facts.

Fact 1: you own the physical media (CD/DVD/Blu-ray) on which content is provided.

Fact 2: content on said media is licensed to you under certain terms and conditions, but you don't exclusive ownership rights to it.

You may not like Fact 2, but it would still be upheld in a court of law.

I will be sure to remember that the next time I have to defend the issue in a court of law.

But since that will never happen my point stands. This is not a courtroom.

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Bla bla bla. Reminds me of people that say you do not have permissions to modify a console which you have legally bought and own. Tell it to someone who cares. I own this disk, I own what is on it. You try to limit me this access and I get it for free - you lose more.

Your ignorance of the facts of law and self-attribution of rights do nothing but highlight your inexcusable sense of entitlement and feeling of being persecuted. Perhaps you'd need to be bitten in your derrière to force a change from such a cavalier attitude :rolleyes:

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Yes, you rather did, and I've never bought a map pack. I don't play multiplayer, so I probably never will.

I'd rather be civil, so I suppose I can leave it at whats already been said.

And yes, I agree that some DLC releases aren't worthy to be sold at any price. But as to the general trend, I love it. Expansions never did jack for me... usually too long since I moved onto other games. DLC is a completely different story.

So why do you act so insulted? Read my above comment about proper DLC, I have no issues with something that is done well and provides sufficient amount of content for its price. Clearly I didn't mean you in what I said. Not all DLC is bad, just most.

Your ignorance of the facts of law and self-attribution of rights do nothing but highlight your inexcusable sense of entitlement and being persecuted. Perhaps you'd need to be bitten in your derrière to force a change from such a cavalier attitude :rolleyes:

Hey, like I said, tell it to someone that cares. :rolleyes: Fortunately, I live in a country that gives me broad freedom to stick to my beliefs and so called attitude, and do as I like with content I have purchased. I have not asked for anything more than what we used to get 5 years ago from games.

And before you wonder, I sleep like a baby at night, thank you very much. ;)

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So why do you act so insulted? Read my above comment about proper DLC, I have no issues with something that is done well and provides sufficient amount of content for its price. Clearly I didn't mean you in what I said. Not all DLC is bad, just most.

Look I understand that you clarified but your original statement included me in a 'retarded gaming generation' because I buy DLC.

So lets just calm down here. :)

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No no no, read it again. I have never insulted you as a DRM buyer, I insulted people that spend good cash on very little material. I do not know you, and I do not know your purchasing habits. I just resent the quick spenders.

But at least we cleared that, cheers. :)

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