Vaccine preservative not to blame for autism: judge

[acnpt]

Interesting timeline, about the UK doctor(who has been struck off) who started the MMR Authism row.

1988

The MMR vaccine – which acts against measles, mumps and rubella – is introduced in the UK. It has been used in the US since 1971

1993 onwards

The gastroenterologist Dr Andrew Wakefield, then of London's Royal Free hospital, proposes measles jab causes Crohn's disease

1995

Uptake rate of MMR vaccine peaks at 92%

February 1998

Wakefield suggests a link between the MMR vaccine and an increased risk of autism and bowel disorders. He says his team have found a "genuinely new syndrome" and suggest the combination might be overpowering the body's immune system.

March 1998

The Medical Research Council says there is no evidence showing a link between the MMR jab and bowel disease or autism

April 1998

Finnish scientists find no danger associated with the MMR vaccine, after a 14-year study

1999

Research published in the Lancet from the Royal Free Hospital, where Wakefield did his research, finds no evidence for MMR and autism link

April 2000

Wakefield and the pathologist Prof John O'Leary, of Coombe Women's hospital in Dublin, present research to the US Congress. Their study shows that tests on 25 children with autism reveal 24 had traces of the measles virus in their gut. The Department of Health says the findings prove nothing.

2001

Andrew Wakefield resigns from the Royal Free and University College Medical School

January 2001

The Daily Mail and other papers launch campaigns backing Wakefield

December 2001

Then prime minster Tony Blair refuses to reveal whether his son Leo has been given the MMR vaccine. Seven years later, Cherie Blair reveals that Leo was given the vaccine

February 2001

A study by the British Medical Journal finds that autism has continued to rise despite MMR administration being static

December 2001

A review of previous research, conducted by the MRC, finds no link between the vaccine and autistic spectrum disorders

February 2002

Wakefield and O'Leary publish a paper in the journal Molecular Pathology, that suggests a link between the measles virus and bowel disease in children with developmental disorders

2002-2004

A large number of scientific studies find no link between MMR and autism including research published in British Medical Journal, New England Journal of Medicine, Pediatrics and Lancet

February 2004

An investigation by journalist Brian Deer for The Sunday Times exposes the flawed scientific basis for Wakefield's claims, and reveals conflicts of interest which suggest Wakefield could have profited financially by the scare

March 2004

Ten co-authors on the 1998 Wakefield Lancet paper issue a retraction and editor of the Lancet says, with hindsight, they shouldn't have published the paper

2004-2005

Uptake of MMR vaccine falls to 81%

March 2005

Japanese scientists say the MMR vaccination is unlikely to be linked to an increase in autism after they find a rise in the condition following the withdrawal of the MMR jab in that country in 1993

2005-2006

Uptake of MMR vaccine at 84%

April 2006

A 13-year-old boy becomes the first person in the UK to die from measles in 14 years

May 2006

US scientists report they have found the measles virus in the guts of autistic children with bowel disease. The research leader, Dr Stephen Walker, adds that the finding does not show that the MMR vaccine caused the condition.

June 2006

Announced that Wakefield is to face the General Medical Council over charges of professional misconduct

2007

Uptake of MMR vaccine increases to 85%. Department of Health says it would like the vaccine uptake to rise to 95% – a level that would give "herd immunity".

February 2008

A team from London's Guy's and St Thomas's hospitals study the immune responses from the MMR jab in 240 children, and find no evidence to link it to autism

November 2008

The Health Protection Agency warns of a measles "epidemic" after cases of the disease exceed 1,000 for the first time in a decade. The agency reports 1,049 confirmed cases in England and Wales during the first 10 months of this year, the highest total since 1995. Dr Mary Ramsay, an immunisation expert at the agency, puts the problem down to "relatively low uptake" of the triple vaccine. She adds there is now a "real risk of a large measles epidemic".

January 2010

The GMC rules that Wakefield "failed in his duties as a responsible consultant" and showed a "callous disregard" for the suffering of children involved in his research. It also found that he acted dishonestly.

MMR timeline from The Guardian

[zhangm Supervisor]

do you think since 1990 the estimated world population has increased from 5.2 billion to an estimated 6.8 billion might be why there is an increase in autism cases

Not to mention that doctors are more aware of autism and its symptoms, thus more capable of diagnosing it, and more people visit doctors, thus there is a better sampling of the population.

And two more things: correlation does not imply causation. You mention an increase in cases of autism, which is correlated to, say, Google's share of the online search market. Doesn't mean that Google promotes autism. Second, autism is not like the flu.

Maybe they realize that doctors and scientist can be wrong sometimes too. They were at first when they said there was a link so who is to say that they aren't wrong to change their mind. Time will tell, I guess.

There are many scientists who say things. Unfortunately, some scientists are quacks. One of them published some damning claims suggesting a link between autism and vaccination. Since publication, others in the scientific community have found that reality doesn't support those claims, and that original paper has since been retracted.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

Maybe they realize that doctors and scientist can be wrong sometimes too. They were at first when they said there was a link so who is to say that they aren't wrong to change their mind. Time will tell, I guess.

There was only one study that suggested a link, the sample size was quite small (12 people I think), and no other studies supported it.

[cabron]

autism is not like the flu.

I know that autism is not like the flu but its so widespread that almost feel like a pandemic disease.

[s1k3sT]

Why do the Amish have close to no cases of autism? I've read studies that they have 1 case in multiple thousands while the average is about 1 in 200. This could also be linked to other factors like a better diet but unless we do the research we will never know...

[Fred Derf Veteran]

I know that autism is not like the flu but its so widespread that almost feel like a pandemic disease.

Autism is not contagious so comparing it to a pandemic is plainly wrong.

[cabron]

Autism is not contagious so comparing it to a pandemic is plainly wrong.

I know that is not contagious but what I am trying to explain its that it is so widespread that feel like any baby poor or rich class can born with autism. Do I explained myself clear?

[User6060]

Why do the Amish have close to no cases of autism? I've read studies that they have 1 case in multiple thousands while the average is about 1 in 200. This could also be linked to other factors like a better diet but unless we do the research we will never know...

or they don't trust the electronic devices necessary to properly diagnose cases and instead prefer to raise barns and churn butter, which btw doesn't exclude the autistic from participating

edit: btw the amish do vaccinate

"The idea that the Amish do not vaccinate their children is untrue,” says Dr. Kevin Strauss, MD, a pediatrician at the CSC. “We run a weekly vaccination clinic and it’s very busy.” He says Amish vaccinations rates are lower than the general population’s, but younger Amish are more likely to be vaccinated than older generations.

Strauss also sees plenty of Amish children showing symptoms of autism. “Autism isn’t a diagnosis - it’s a description of behavior. We see autistic behaviors along with seizure disorders or mental retardation or a genetic disorder, where the autism is part of a more complicated clinical spectrum.” Fragile X syndrome and Retts is also common among the clinic’s patients."

I know that is not contagious but what I am trying to explain its that it is so widespread that feel like any baby poor or rich class can born with autism. Do I explained myself clear?

do you really feel like you can say autism is on the rise noticeably (without having been told so by the numbers) i can't say i've ever thought "wow all my friends are having autistic babies" or "whats with all this autism today" its still a very rare occurrence imo

[Fred Derf Veteran]

I know that is not contagious but what I am trying to explain its that it is so widespread that feel like any baby poor or rich class can born with autism. Do I explained myself clear?

Sure, it can affect anyone regardless of income/education and especially those with a family history of autism since there is a strong genetic component.

do you really feel like you can say autism is on the rise noticeably (without having been told so by the numbers) i can't say i've ever thought "wow all my friends are having autistic babies" or "whats with all this autism today" its still a very rare occurrence imo

Autism is a spectrum disorder. Once upon a time a person needed to be disfunctional (i.e. Rain Man) to be labelled autistic but now it only takes repetitive behaviour like the stacking of toys combined with a preference to not look someone directly in the eyes to get a diagnosis.

[Crompee]

My daughter have autism and I know something is going on with the vaccines because why autism has been increases a lot in the last 20 years?

Japan stopped using the MMR Vaccine in 1993 yet autism cases continued to rise in the country.

[spenser.d]

Its a myth that these diseases are sprouting up more now than ever. The ability to present them to the public eye is the only thing that's changed in the last 20-50 years. You conspiracy theorists out there can keep your kids away from vaccines, but there's a far better chance they'll be far worse off in the longrun for it.

-Spenser

[tiagosilva29]

"Evidence be damned, Jenny McCarthy says it's the vaccines and I believe her!"

How many doctors and scientists have to say there's no link for people to actually believe them?

Find me a doctor that looks as good as Jenny McCarthy in the buff. That's what I thought.

[ScottKin]

My daughter have autism and I know something is going on with the vaccines because why autism has been increases a lot in the last 20 years? it feels almost like the flu. Anyone can born with autism.

No - it's just that since the world is so much more connected that there are more reports of autism.

I think you'll find that, statistically, incidences of reported autism has kept pace with population levels.

Here's another idea to think about: maybe autism is caused by the substances that parents have been taking into their systems years, or even decades before the birth of their autistic child?

Or, how about genetics?

--ScottKin

[ScottKin]

Why do the Amish have close to no cases of autism? I've read studies that they have 1 case in multiple thousands while the average is about 1 in 200. This could also be linked to other factors like a better diet but unless we do the research we will never know...

That is to say, no "reported" cases of autism. Semi-closed societies kinda keep to themselves.

--ScottKin

[Motoko.]

I'm going on hunch and say the Judge was bribed.

[Stetson]

I'm going on hunch and say the Judge was bribed.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

Find me a doctor that looks as good as Jenny McCarthy in the buff. That's what I thought.

Do nurses count?

Because if so, there was this one who took blood from me once...

[chrisj1968]

Scientists and doctors are saying there is a connection. A judge ruling ends the controversy?? I don't ****ing think so. They are not doctors, scientists, or anybody qualified enough to answer that.

+1, I said this last year about it because I'm an alex jones fan and he posted news on this. I was chastised... I feel all warm and fuzzy now to be vindicated. No judge is a medical professional. he was told ... something... and believed it. Several countries have outright banned Thimerosal's usage...but it is on some government websites as harmful. :huh:

my B12 shots contain aluminum... :blink:

[TrueMonolith]

+1, I said this last year about it because I'm an alex jones fan and he posted news on this. I was chastised... I feel all warm and fuzzy now to be vindicated. No judge is a medical professional. he was told ... something... and believed it. Several countries have outright banned Thimerosal's usage...but it is on some government websites as harmful. :huh:

my B12 shots contain aluminum... :blink:

i suppose ignorance is bliss.

[Growled Member]

Here's another idea to think about: maybe autism is caused by the substances that parents have been taking into their systems years, or even decades before the birth of their autistic child?

If that's the cause, after all the crap most of us have put into our bodies, then the next generation had better watch out.

[Southern Patriot]

Alot of diseases and illnesses have increased alot in the past 20 years, that is no evidence.

Correction: a lot of diseases and illnesses have had increases in diagnosis in the past 20 years because we have gotten better at diagnosing them. That does not necessarily mean that there have actually been more cases than in the past.

[-T- Member]

As far as I understood it, one of the main reasons these people tried to make a link was that signs of autism are only really shown after the ages where the children receive the MMR vaccine. Not exactly a sound scientific theory. Both of my kids will be fully vaccinated and no scare stories like this will let me put my kids lives at risk from easily preventable diseases

[hdood]

+1, I said this last year about it because I'm an alex jones fan and he posted news on this. I was chastised... I feel all warm and fuzzy now to be vindicated.

You're not vindicated. Alex Jones is a crazy person who's made an industry out of the naive.

No judge is a medical professional. he was told ... something... and believed it.

He wasn't just "told," it was a ruling based on all the scientific evidence. The fact that you and Looney-Jones don't like it doesn't change this.

Several countries have outright banned Thimerosal's usage...but it is on some government websites as harmful. :huh:

Most countries have not banned it, although it may not be widely used in very rich countries. These countries have the money to spend on more expensive and harder to store single dose packaging. This reduces the possibility of contamination to the point where preservatives like thiomersal aren't needed. In other words they are somewhat safer for that reason alone.

You could argue that we who live in rich countries should refrain from using various things "just in case," even though there is no scientific reason. I'm fine with that, it's the same kind of privilege that allows us to be skeptical of food engineering. Not everyone has that privilege though, and when we spread lies and untruths about these things, it affects them, not us. When people in poorer regions turn down life-saving medicine and food because of nonsense spread by ignorant members of the privileged elite, it stops being funny.

[SyntaxError]

I don't know squat about thimerosal. All I know is I've had the MMR vaccine, and other common childhood vaccines back in the 70's. I am not autistic.

I do know that some vaccines can be very harmful. 2 people in my family are currently very sick because of the swine flu vaccine.

Within hours of getting the H1N1 vaccine last year, my uncle collapsed and went into a seizure and coma. He is not epileptic. When he came out of the coma days later, he was unable to speak and paralyzed from the neck down. Last I heard, he could wiggle a few fingers and that was it. He still can't talk.

My grandmother also had the H1N1 vaccine last year. Within days of getting the shot, she was rushed to the hospital, barely alive. She had been sitting at dinner when it hit her. Suddenly she couldn't feed herself or even hold her fork. She was very weak, her potassium level was deadly low, her lungs were filling with fluid, and her heart was being squeezed by the fluid buildup in the pericardial membrane. She was also delirious. Her doctor said if she hadn't gotten to the hospital when she did, she would have been dead within the hour. She is now on oxygen and respiratory meds for the rest of her life. She has since been rushed to the hospital several more times for similar problems, none of which existed before she got that damned vaccine.

Both of these cases are confirmed by their doctors as being caused by the H1N1 vaccine.

[TrueMonolith]

I don't know squat about thimerosal. All I know is I've had the MMR vaccine, and other common childhood vaccines back in the 70's. I am not autistic.

I do know that some vaccines can be very harmful. 2 people in my family are currently very sick because of the swine flu vaccine.

Within hours of getting the H1N1 vaccine last year, my uncle collapsed and went into a seizure and coma. He is not epileptic. When he came out of the coma days later, he was unable to speak and paralyzed from the neck down. Last I heard, he could wiggle a few fingers and that was it. He still can't talk.

My grandmother also had the H1N1 vaccine last year. Within days of getting the shot, she was rushed to the hospital, barely alive. She had been sitting at dinner when it hit her. Suddenly she couldn't feed herself or even hold her fork. She was very weak, her potassium level was deadly low, her lungs were filling with fluid, and her heart was being squeezed by the fluid buildup in the pericardial membrane. She was also delirious. Her doctor said if she hadn't gotten to the hospital when she did, she would have been dead within the hour. She is now on oxygen and respiratory meds for the rest of her life. She has since been rushed to the hospital several more times for similar problems, none of which existed before she got that damned vaccine.

Both of these cases are confirmed by their doctors as being caused by the H1N1 vaccine.

Without calling their doctors an idiot, they might have unique physiologic traits that cause that reaction. But if we want to go into anecdotal evidence.

My entire work place (some 1000 people), got the H1N1 vaccine, and of that, i heard a few people got the flu (regular flu) as a result. Nothing out of the ordinary with me as well.