"I have seen the future, and it is GNOME 3"


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HawkMan

Now on top of that, let's talk casual users.

My mother hates having windows open, for some reason it confuses her like it does a lot of casual computer users. they don't understand the workings of minimize and all that.

The task manager itself is already a tough concept for these people. and you (along with the gnome guys) think that adding Virtual desktops as a core desktops system on top of this again, is a GOOD IDEA!... seriously ?

just like in your example picture, there's NO reason why you need to have multiple desktops for that, all those apps would fit the superbar just fine, and allow you to switch between them instantly without bringing up a silly expose desktop with expose windows insides thing.

Do you realizehow broken that is, expose itself is a workaround to a broken task manager, and they have done an expose within expose as if that makes it better.

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argonite

Anyone else here hate complex menus appearing out of nowhere? Simple menus with a simple list, maybe.

The one thing I like about the Windows 7 Superbar is that the icons stay where they are at all times. I develop motor memory and can switch tasks faster.

Expose is painful for me. For one, the windows organize themselves differently and scatter themselves all over the desktop in a nonuniform pattern.

This looks even more painful, and seems like an attempt to hide the UI for the sake of hiding the UI.

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Lechio

yeah, they are, they're definately not that high .

and you do realize, and let's simplify here since you don't seem to grasp math to well.

Well, my grasp of mathematics allows me to understand something like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect#Theory

It's quite enough for someone who doesn't even like the complication and constrains of it, I think.

Free world: 1 linux users vs 99 windows users = 1% linux

China: 10 linux users vs 990 pirated windows users = 1% linux.

yes, there's a lot more linux users in china. but we're talkign percentages, pure numbers don't make those any higher.

But where do those numbers come from? The point I'm trying to make here is that those methods to get the percentages are flawed, nothing more than pure speculations.

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Growled

Symod, that is really cool. I may have to try that myself. :)

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iamwhoiam

Don't worry one of these days something so revolutionary will happen that will it cause Microsoft and Apple to immediately drop their pantaloons, open their butt cheeks and feel the wrath of Linux.

One of these years it might be the year of *nix.

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markjensen

One of these years it might be the year of *nix.

My year was 2003.

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PL_

gnomeshelllowquality.jpg

I can't remember where I saw it but Microsoft had a similar idea where the screen would swing out to reveal a start menu on the left. It sucked and they didn't use it because it was too distracting and flashy.

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Syanide

Virtual deskltops it's a second layer

you have one layer of desktops, and then the desktops have windows.

That's two layers you need to navigate, instead of just havign one well designed task manager layer.

No, it's one layer, because in gnome 3 the workspace grid is de facto the primary way to manipulate windows. You have highlighted icons on the applications menu to differentiate once that are running, but the grid is a much faster way of reaching those applications because of the instant visual preview.

And as for yoru question. Well my windows 7 superbar does a pretty damn good job of letting my navigate 20+ windows without needing and extra workaround layer or desktops.

Once again, it's not a second layer. As for the superbar, my personal experience is that without previews on superbar, it's pretty fast to go to a window (unless many are open), but then again, without them, it's much slower to find a window you want (when many are open). Loose - loose situation.

And as I said, thos new virtual desktops they showed had an an enormous amount of extra clicks and mouse travel compared to the simple solutions available today. that's not an improvement. and the fact they need virtual desktops to manage their widnows because the task manager can't do it, is already a sign of a failed design.

Once again: NO CLICKS NEEDED TO GET THERE. Edge-bound mouse movements: upper left corner to reach Activities (and workspace grid), lower right corner to see system notifications (anything from twitter client to the wireless network manager dumps its notifications there.

Are you actually saying, that it's better, to

click1: click on the VD icon(after you find it

Click2: look over the VD's locate the one you want, click that.

click3: click the correct app on the taskbar of that VD to open(brign to front) the window you want.

No that's not what I'm saying. This is what I said exactly, but somehow you fail to grasp it: "And I don't even need to click to get to Activities (where you see workspaces), it is edge-bound, I only need to position the mouse to upper left corner of the screen." Basically, what you see on that screenshot, you get there by moving the mouse to upper left corner of the screen.

As opposed to the one or two much quicker click the superbar requires you to do to get any window you desire. one click if it's a single windows application, instantly available, two clicks if it's got multiple windows, actually that still may be only one click though... especially if you turn down the hoverdelay. And as a bonus, if you just want to check on something in that window. The aero peak feature of the superbar, don't require any clicks at all, and you can have a quick peak in less than a second. Whereas in this awesome new Gnome, you would have to navigate though all those steps to the desktop and app. and then all the way back again.

this is NOT evolution or improvement.

I don't see how any of that is much quicker than gnome shell's approach or compiz scale:

Oh and yeah, compiz scale doesn't need a click or key stroke either, it can be set to a screen edge as well.

What gnome shell does is that it takes Compiz Scale and modifies it a bit. And btw, having multiple workspaces is not a necessity, it's an option:

gnomeshell2.th.png

On a sidenote, the only problem I have with Gnome 3 is that I don't think it will be done for the planned release date (later this year). It's still buggy, the WM still needs work, and overall it needs hell of a lot more polish before it is ready to be used by anone.

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iamwhoiam

My year was 2003.

I think if you can totally rely on it, great. But my comment was more to do with the constant "Don't worry one of these days something so revolutionary will happen that will it cause Microsoft and Apple to immediately drop their pantaloons, open their butt cheeks and feel the wrath of Linux." type of comments that seem to surface every now and again. Choice is great and all, but *nix on the desktop will never be a contender against Microsoft until it's more unified and easier for "the masses".

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HawkMan

And again, wether it requires mouse clicks or not this IS expose, and expose on expose wich is a workaround for a broken task manager that doesn't do it's job properly.

And is not nearly as efficient as a good task manager like the superbar. and despite your claims about huge amounts of windows. is a far worse method of managing large amounts of windows than the superbar, and especially superbar+aero peak.

Clicks or no clicks. the superbar don't need clicks either. I also talked abotu mouse travel. wich is equally if not more important than clicks. and this gnome thing has a LOT of unecessary mouse travel.

It's almost as bad as the iPad where you have to move your hand all over the surface of the screen to naviaget webpages. and even worse. Appple didn't even "innovate" the browser enough to do something as simple as place the adress bar at the bottom so you woulnd't need to move you hand from top to bottom to go to the virtual keyboard. This does the same thing. you need to slide your mouse back and forth a whole lot just for simple stuff. and as was said before, due to the way it's been done. muscle memory can't be used like on the superbar.

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zhangm

Once again: NO CLICKS NEEDED TO GET THERE. Edge-bound mouse movements: upper left corner to reach Activities (and workspace grid), lower right corner to see system notifications (anything from twitter client to the wireless network manager dumps its notifications there.

Ok, you don't need to click to view activities. We don't need to click to view the superbar. Hell, we don't even need to hover unless we set it to autohide.

Can you launch programs without clicking? Can you find files without typing? I'm not sure not-clicking is necessarily a good thing. Certainly it is easier, but the click also serves as tactile feedback that says, "ok, I've told the computer to do something." Hovering is...not.

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Syanide

Ok, you don't need to click to view activities. We don't need to click to view the superbar. Hell, we don't even need to hover unless we set it to autohide.

Can you launch programs without clicking? Can you find files without typing? I'm not sure not-clicking is necessarily a good thing. Certainly it is easier, but the click also serves as tactile feedback that says, "ok, I've told the computer to do something." Hovering is...not.

I was making a point about HawkMan claiming that gnome shell and workspace grid requires 'much more clicks' to get to a certain application when in fact that's not true, not comaring clicking and hovering in any way.

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Farstrider

I am using 10.04 and also have Gnome3 installed and all I can say is that it is fantastic! It takes a little getting used to but once you get the feel of it very little comes close. For me anyway! :)

The first thing, for people who do not know, is that 10.04 is an LTS and that this particular implementation of Gnome3 is only going to be officially released in the 12.04 LTS (This is the next LTS after 10.04) and will not come installed as part of the 10.04 LTS! You have to install it yourself. To get it to run has to be the users choice! (In other words ANYTHING in between 10.04 and 12.04 must be considered beta at best!) As far as I know it will be in 10.10 but will not be on by default. The 16th September 2010 will be the Final Gnome3 release date.

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Syanide

I am using 10.04 and also have Gnome3 installed and all I can say is that it is fantastic! It takes a little getting used to but once you get the feel of it very little comes close. For me anyway! :)

The first thing, for people who do not know, is that 10.04 is an LTS and that this particular implementation of Gnome3 is only going to be officially released in the 12.04 LTS (This is the next LTS after 10.04) and will not come installed as part of the 10.04 LTS! You have to install it yourself. To get it to run has to be the users choice! (In other words ANYTHING in between 10.04 and 12.04 must be considered beta at best!) As far as I know it will be in 10.10 but will not be on by default. The 16th September 2010 will be the Final Gnome3 release date.

Thanks a bunch for clearing those things out!

I was kid of worried because Ubuntu folk seem to have put a lot of work into their own little things on gnome-panel etc, it would be a shame just to flush it down by the time 10.10 comes out. I also approve of the fact that it won't officially be on Ubuntu until the next LTS, gives it time to get polished.

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pezzonovante

Windows 7's UI is the best ever. Mac OS looks ugly compared to Win7. But it looks as if the open-source guys are determined to copy Mac OS's UI in every respect. This will definitely fail big time.

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Gravitas

Doesn't look that futuristic to me. :/

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Farstrider

@ Symod: You are very welcome!

Yes from here on in Ubuntu must be very aware of how things are perceived by ALL stakeholders and not just the Linux community! Also that implementation with projects like this, is done on a consistent basis! Any appearance of haphazardness or chopping and changing will be disastrous as far as I am concerned!

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tiagosilva29

GNOME 2 is fine for me.

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Unobscured Vision

*sigh* Gnome-Shell... honestly. This is the *best* they could come up with? I installed it 10 minutes ago, and quite honestly I don't see what the big deal is. I thought it was a bad idea before -- and having used it ten minutes, it's not "knocking my socks off" or even provoking a "hey, that's interesting". In fact, it's probably a step backwards. Flash and pizazz and trinkets and things? I see no such critters anywhere within it, nor any revolutionary concept behind it that will make it do anything other than fail.

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Rob2687

LOL I knew someone would go and take my last comment seriously.

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.Neo
What gnome shell does is that it takes Compiz Scale and modifies it a bit. And btw, having multiple workspaces is not a necessity, it's an option:

Why are they using Mac OS X' Dashboard widget close button?

screenshot20100406at220.png

Would be nice if they actually came up with their own style instead of just copying elements left and right from both Mac OS X and Windows and mashing those together.

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Syanide

Why are they using Mac OS X' Dashboard widget close button?

screenshot20100406at220.png

Would be nice if they actually came up with their own style instead of just copying elements left and right from both Mac OS X and Windows and mashing those together.

Hahaha, good catch.

I disagree with the second part, though. I don't see anything taken from OS X and Windows, unless you go to certain length and say any application menu implementation is a Start menu rip-off, and any panel on top of the screen is an OS X rip off.

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HSoft

Would be nice if they actually came up with their own style instead of just copying elements left and right from both Mac OS X and Windows and mashing those together.

tbh I don't see the problem of taking the best bits of Windows and OSX and using them as long as they get them right.

I personally don't like linux, but if they can make a better OS by taking the best bits of other OS's then power to them (although I'm sure Apple will probably try to sue for patent infringement).

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XerXis

to be honest, on that screenshot it looks a bit like the windows 7 start menu with all the jumplists expanded and a start button replaced with an activities button. Have to try it to make a judgement though

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Syanide

tbh I don't see the problem of taking the best bits of Windows and OSX and using them as long as they get them right.

I personally don't like linux, but if they can make a better OS by taking the best bits of other OS's then power to them (although I'm sure Apple will probably try to sue for patent infringement).

Not only that, but also the fact that people are looking at something that's not the entire picture, and making conclusions. With Zeitgeist integrated, the current 'Activities' will only then be worthy of the name, right now it does look like a bunch or recent documents, places, and applications (hence, 'Start menu ripoff').

Like this comment right here:

to be honest, on that screenshot it looks a bit like the windows 7 start menu with all the jumplists expanded and a start button replaced with an activities button. Have to try it to make a judgement though

I will draw a simple parallel with the current decision of the Ubuntu developers for moving the window buttons to the left side. They're getting bashed pretty hard right now because, as it is right now, the buttons do look like a complete rip-off of OS X layout. But the reason the buttons have moved is to introduce some new and original things on the right side. Currently, there are a bunch of concepts, from Zeitgeist button, to my favorite, Esfera, but it will take time for the functionality to arrive. Until that happens, it will look like Ubuntu's ripping off OS X.

P.S. Esfera is a gesture based button that is like nothing else out there currently:

Esfera (sphere in Spanish) is a circular spherical button, about 3 times wider than the normal ones, which offers a variety of possibilities to the user. Esfera represents the window. Any action performed with Esfera is an action that affects the whole window where it is placed.

It's draggable, and it responds to different movements performed by the user with it. This are some of the possibilities I see:

Easy-to-implement actions

Moved to the top: the window is maximized. User clicks on Esfera, moves it a little bit to the top, and the window is maximized even before he releases the button. If he changes his mind, he moves it down without releasing the Esfera, and it gets back to the previous unmaximized state.

Moved to the bottom: the window is minimized; same behavior than maximizing, but the user moves Esfera down to perform it.

Moved right: the window is moved to the workspace on the right.

Moved left: the window is moved to the workspace on the left.

Moved performing an ?X?: the window is closed. User clicks on esfera, moves it to make an ?X?, and the window becomes transparent to show that it's about to be closed. If he releases Esfera, the application is closed. If he changes his mind, he moves Esfera back and the window gets opaque

again; then, if he releases Esfera, the window will stay opened.

Clicked: the user sees a menu, in which he can choose between the different options of Esfera: close, minimise, maximise, switch workspace... this menu is thoght to make easier the life of new users

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