Tweaks for Faster Windows 7

[Night Prowler]

My mistake with the Tablet PC service - if I remember right, it used to be set to Automatic by default in Windows Vista, and I made the statement based on that memory. I do have a wireless card installed (it's a laptop, which I use as a desktop - in the sense that I hardly ever take it around), and there was a time when I had no use for wireless networks (mostly because I used to be out of range of any useful wireless n/w) and I disabled the WLAN Auto Config service then.

This is the problem why people should not be tweaking their systems based on recommendation of people that don't have a clue as to what the final result will be.

If anyone wants to really start tweaking services go to the people that do have a clue: Black Viper's Website

[cropcircles]

THE smartest thing YOU could do in that situation is to make yourself an image and restore from it, instead of a reformat every 3 months.

Agreed ! I update my OS image using Acronis about once a month. Save your image on another hard drive.

[kjx]

This is the problem why people should not be tweaking their systems based on recommendation of people that don't have a clue as to what the final result will be.

If anyone wants to really start tweaking services go to the people that do have a clue: Black Viper's Website

Way to twist a mistake made in a passing example as a conclusive proof that I don't know what I'm talking about. Are you 1) implying that I don't know what disabling the Tablet PC Input service would do, and then 2) (assuming the answer to 1 to be negative and) then generalizing that to mean that I "don't have a clue as to what the final result" of manipulating all the other services would be?

My mistake was in wrongly stating the default state of that service in Windows 7 (but correct when looking at Windows Vista). For you to understand why that occured, you should know how I process services: I sort them according to status and then according to startup type - I usually limit myself to the ones that are started (manual or otherwise) and the ones that are start automatically (delayed or otherwise), and run a cursory glance over the others. In Windows 7, the Tablet PC service would fall in that very last category and the change from Vista hadn't registered well enough in my mind to quote correctly from memory. I am only human and considering there are around 150 Windows services (rough estimate, don't jump at this if I'm off) that I only deal with once per Windows install, please excuse the error (which in my view was thoroughly inconsequential; if it was consequential, I would have verified before posting).

But by all means, use the Black Viper's guide - it would be more comprehensive than the advice I could give on services. It was one such guide which started me off on tweaking services in 2007.

I had replied to one of your previous posts - you seem to have missed that (#39 on page 3).

[soonerproud]

EDIT: Quote limit for the loose.

Yes I agree with you, same goes for Macs, the do not need tech support / maintenance because they are perfect. Same bloody brilliant logic.

Windows 7 by default is not configured for a specific purpose - this is evident in what services are set to automatic.

Tweaking, or configuring for a specific purpose, leads to a significant performance boost, especially on low-end hardware.

Please show actual proof that this is true. The reality is it is not true that tweaking gives a significant enough of a performance boost to bother with. Regular maintenance like defraging (which is automated since Vista) or disk cleanup is not a form of tweaking.

It is called maintenance, most people need that, and not actual tweaks. I.E. : Clean boot, Clean, reg-clean, defrag - done.

FYI, CCleaner is a ****-poor registry cleaner. It is good for freeing up hard drive space and perma-saging deleted information.

Cleaning the boot files hurt performance. Readyboot uses those files to streamline the boot times of the PC. Reg-cleaners are unnecessary gimmicks that many times cause more harm than good. Defrag is automated since Vista. CCleaner is not a thorough reg-cleaner. It only looks for orphan reg entries and deletes them. CCleaner is good for what it is, a all in one cleanup utility instead of having to individually go to your browser tools or disc cleanup to do your cleaning maintenance.

Actually, recommending reinstall is sometimes much easier, pain-free, and would save a lot of time.

Visible improvements in boot time, response time, and GUI friendliness can be achieved via. tweaking. Simple de-bloating a pre-installed Windows installation will lead to significant performance increases. Disabling unnecessary functionality will indeed help boot time and reduce RAM usage. Obviously, the disabled functionality will make a computer "unreliable" in that area - duh - that is when you turn those services back to automatic and restart.

RAM is cheap, buy more if you need more. Making a image and restoring a fully functional OS is idea, much less painless and much faster than a reinstall. Win 7 can run on a low end netbook which means it is hardly bloated. Again, faster boot time does not mean a faster PC in every day task and you have failed to show how shaving off 10 seconds make a significant difference in a person's daily task. Why bother with disabling services when the services triggers functionality of Win 7 doesn't even run a services until needed and immediately shuts it down when the need for the service is over?

Wrong. I have noticed way too many applications install more than they uninstall. Leftover registry keys, entries, invalid service entries, files, folders, and other ****.

The registry stuff can be solved by not using a computer. That is the only way.

The only people running around telling others the registry is a issue with PC performance have no understand what the registry is or really does. Reg keys that are orphaned by uninstalled programs have no effect on performance of the PC because the files they are linked to are gone from the PC. Left over file folders take little space in the age of terabite drives. Besides, people should be careful what they install on their PC and should only have necessary programs installed for security reasons. Please show proof that completely removing these things gives a significant boost in daily PC task.

You are implying that Windows 7 actually runs on 300-400MB RAM, that is if pressured (when initially it was using 800MB on a 2GB system) it will free up the other 400-500MB (I am not talking about prefetch). This is not true. The ~420MB that it uses on my system, it always uses. Your application will give you a low-memory warning instead of Windows magically freeing up RAM (I am not talking about superfetch RAM). Although after usage, W7 indles at ~650 MB, which might budge down back to the startup ~420 MB.

W7 runs just fine on a PC with 512 RAM, in fact just as well as XP. I know this from personal experience, and yes the person you are replying to is absolutely correct on how memory management works on Windows 7.

Quad Core with Hyper Threading I presume, 8GB RAM I presume, ~300 USD GPU I presume?

Wrong on all but one count.

Phenom II X4 955 (No hyper threading) 4 Gigs RAM (Paid all of $50 for it) Seagate barracuda terabyte HD (No SSD) 9600 GT (Can you say drastically out dated! Can be bought for less than $75 now)

If not, welcome to the world of doing it wrong. EDIT. Simply disabling some services here and there I achieved a performance boost for my netbook W7 install (which FYI, with const. trips here and there, I managed to rack up 15 days of up time - then my battery ran out = problem free stability).

But, if talking about serious tweaking. I used an extremely n-lite Windows XP. It was a ~350MB install, and with themes and drivers used about 85MB RAM, started in ~12 seconds. Perfect for gaming, perfect for watching movies. A non-tweaked install of XP booted in about twice as long and well consumed a lot more RAM. It is kinda of a Q.E.D. type of thing - more space, more free ram for gaming, faster boot - oh and a faster interface esp. Windows explorer. Tweaking a computer to do a certain task and to do it fast (at a cost of doing some other tasks - server work for example) leads to performance improvements which stack up.

We are talking about modern MS OSes, not XP. I still don't believe you got a significant performance increase out of Win 7 by tweaking it. W7 is optimized to run well on both low end and high end PC's without a ton of tweaking.

In many cases I had issues due to the tweaking that caused more problems than they supposedly solved. Shaving 10 seconds off a boot time does not mean a faster PC. The services settings are now run on triggers, meaning they don't run at all until needed, and only for the length of time needed. There is no need to turn off services, period.

For example, your problem here is that you set to manual necessary services. This is dumb. If it is necessary it should run, know what it is before touching it. These golden rules - which many break and complain.

You need to read what you quoted again. I never said I even touched the services. I don't need to since they no longer run willy nilly, like they did in both Vista and XP. They simply don't run at all until called on by a specific function of the OS, and then they are turned right back off as soon a the OS finishes it's task. Turning off services is just a waste of time and reduces the functionality of the PC.

[soonerproud]

I see nothing wrong with using "services.msc" to disable services you don't use or will ever use, some of them hog significant amounts of memory. For instance, I don't plan on ever using remote management so I disabled it. If you want to consider that "Tweaking" then I don't see the problem with it. I've personally disabled about 12 services and my computer runs streamlined, a noticetable difference from factory settings. There's no use in running unnecessary services that most end users likely will never use.

Remote management doesn't run on W7 if you never use the remote management feature. Go read about Services Triggers to understand why disabling unused services is a waste of time in Win 7.

As for the other post responding to me, I will respond later today when I get time to do so.

[Udedenkz]

Please show actual proof that this is true. The reality is it is not true that tweaking gives a significant enough of a performance boost to bother with. Regular maintenance like defraging (which is automated since Vista) or disk cleanup is not a form of tweaking.

Cleaning the boot files hurt performance. Readyboot uses those files to streamline the boot times of the PC. Reg-cleaners are unnecessary gimmicks that many times cause more harm than good. Defrag is automated since Vista. CCleaner is not a thorough reg-cleaner. It only looks for orphan reg entries and deletes them. CCleaner is good for what it is, a all in one cleanup utility instead of having to individually go to your browser tools or disc cleanup to do your cleaning maintenance.

RAM is cheap, buy more if you need more. Making a image and restoring a fully functional OS is idea, much less painless and much faster than a reinstall. Win 7 can run on a low end netbook which means it is hardly bloated. Again, faster boot time does not mean a faster PC in every day task and you have failed to show how shaving off 10 seconds make a significant difference in a person's daily task. Why bother with disabling services when the services triggers functionality of Win 7 doesn't even run a services until needed and immediately shuts it down when the need for the service is over?

The only people running around telling others the registry is a issue with PC performance have no understand what the registry is or really does. Reg keys that are orphaned by uninstalled programs have no effect on performance of the PC because the files they are linked to are gone from the PC. Left over file folders take little space in the age of terabite drives. Besides, people should be careful what they install on their PC and should only have necessary programs installed for security reasons. Please show proof that completely removing these things gives a significant boost in daily PC task.

W7 runs just fine on a PC with 512 RAM, in fact just as well as XP. I know this from personal experience, and yes the person you are replying to is absolutely correct on how memory management works on Windows 7.

Wrong on all but one count.

Phenom II X4 955 (No hyper threading) 4 Gigs RAM (Paid all of $50 for it) Seagate barracuda terabyte HD (No SSD) 9600 GT (Can you say drastically out dated! Can be bought for less than $75 now)

We are talking about modern MS OSes, not XP. I still don't believe you got a significant performance increase out of Win 7 by tweaking it. W7 is optimized to run well on both low end and high end PC's without a ton of tweaking.

You need to read what you quoted again. I never said I even touched the services. I don't need to since they no longer run willy nilly, like they did in both Vista and XP. They simply don't run at all until called on by a specific function of the OS, and then they are turned right back off as soon a the OS finishes it's task. Turning off services is just a waste of time and reduces the functionality of the PC.

How do I prove to you that services slow **** down? How about: get a netbook, install Norton, get accurate measurement on how much time it takes to boot, uninstall Norton, get an accurate measurement on how much times it takes to boot? Another way would be to get boot time measurements before and after disabling services (lets for example say that your netbook does not need internet connection, so you disable all those services) ...

Readyboost / Boot Files are not on the list of possible files to remove by CCleaner. Stop being repretative and read my entire post before replying - CCleander is a Crap Cleaner. What so hard to understand about that?

OMG it is slow! Throw More RAM on it!!

Image and Reinstall can be used interchangeably - if you have an image of a fresh install. Reimaging is easier.

Yes it can. I am running it right now. Bloated ? I can actually say that it is in a sense of overflowing with functionality that I don't care about. Luckily, one can easily disable this additional functionality and streamline his/her system to be much faster.

10 Seconds Off? I believe you yourself just talked about boot files and how you shouldn't touch them to speed up boot by 10 seconds, contradict much? And yes it does when you turn on a computer to watch a movie or something.

The last statement is a lie. Obviously you never checked that most automatic services and many manual ones run, but their functionality is fully useless for me.

It should be kinda obvious. If a registry key says load service XYZ, system will try to load that, fruitlessly as the files would be missing. So there are just many references to things that don't exist, they can't be used, but nontheless system searches for it.

Hell I had to manually remove some things leftover by Norton (my Windows 7 copy came with the PC...).

It is a good practice. I mean, sometimes I had removed applications detected as still being installed because they were just bad (most of them were preinstalled).

Windows XP runs perfectly well on 256 MB RAM. The minimal RAM usage argument works in favor of XP, as with XP vs 7, there is more memory to use for the software - that is simply because XP is older and lighter and does not need the same minimums of memory to function.

You are drastically missing the point. How the bloody **** are you supposed to notice effects of customization on high-end hardware?

...

Uh. No. As I said, the Windows 7 does not know if you need client / server functionality, wireless functionality, etc, etc... therefore by default it has most of that enabled.

[Roger H. Veteran]

I just read on that darkviper site about what the "tweaked" and "barebones" settings were and for the most part stuff that's set to manual by default they just changed it to disabled and now it's "tweaked". LOL If the service is running manual by default then that means that service almost NEVER runs unless something specifically calls for it. It's not using any RAM at all in manual mode as it's not even loaded.

Stuff like this is what causes random apps from not working then people say Windows sucks. They go tweaking cuz of some guide online and disable stuff they shouldn't be messing with (Reading the description doesn't mean you know what it's for still). They get random BSODs cuz services the system wants to start that would have start if they were in manual mode causes a hang cuz they are disabled.

I went to Turn Windows Features On or Off and removed the tablet PC component feature, Windows Media Center, Windows DVD Maker, Gadget platform, XPS Viewer and XPS Services i think it's called. That's as much as tweaking goes for me, that plus turning off system restore, hibernation and making my pagefile smaller than the 4GB it wants to take at start.

[Phenom II]

Oh I have thought of 1 "tweak" if you want to call it that, which I do

Turn off Search Indexer, I hate that, never makes ANY difference to me whether its on or off, except irritating disk activity - I know where my files are !!

[Udedenkz]

I just read on that darkviper site about what the "tweaked" and "barebones" settings were and for the most part stuff that's set to manual by default they just changed it to disabled and now it's "tweaked". LOL If the service is running manual by default then that means that service almost NEVER runs unless something specifically calls for it. It's not using any RAM at all in manual mode as it's not even loaded.

Stuff like this is what causes random apps from not working then people say Windows sucks. They go tweaking cuz of some guide online and disable stuff they shouldn't be messing with (Reading the description doesn't mean you know what it's for still). They get random BSODs cuz services the system wants to start that would have start if they were in manual mode causes a hang cuz they are disabled.

I went to Turn Windows Features On or Off and removed the tablet PC component feature, Windows Media Center, Windows DVD Maker, Gadget platform, XPS Viewer and XPS Services i think it's called. That's as much as tweaking goes for me, that plus turning off system restore, hibernation and making my pagefile smaller than the 4GB it wants to take at start.

It is a good way to make sure that something doesn't start that you don't need. Manual means that it may be started, by default routine or something. Disabled means GTFO.

You don't get BSODS from disabling services. You get that from disabling drivers from loading, I don't think many guides would recommend that. I would, but that me personally.

Well, that is customization and disabling of useless features.

Oh I have thought of 1 "tweak" if you want to call it that, which I do

Turn off Search Indexer, I hate that, never makes ANY difference to me whether its on or off, except irritating disk activity - I know where my files are !!

I limited mine to things I care about. The new search is probably one the biggest turn-offs for XP users when thinking about upgrading.

[Night Prowler]

Agreed ! I update my OS image using Acronis about once a month. Save your image on another hard drive.

It would be much better to do it on a daily bases. If not a full backup at least incramentals. My system partition of 40GB takes 20 minutes with Acronis full on a daily basis, and it rotates. Restoring only takes about 7 minutes.

[Guest xiphi]

I limited mine to things I care about. The new search is probably one the biggest turn-offs for XP users when thinking about upgrading.

What?! How could it be a turn-off when it's leaps and bounds better than XP's own search? You couldn't pay me to use XP's search over WDS 4.0. Your statement is baffling to say the least.

[Roger H. Veteran]

It is a good way to make sure that something doesn't start that you don't need. Manual means that it may be started, by default routine or something. Disabled means GTFO.

You don't get BSODS from disabling services. You get that from disabling drivers from loading, I don't think many guides would recommend that. I would, but that me personally.

Well, that is customization and disabling of useless features.

I limited mine to things I care about. The new search is probably one the biggest turn-offs for XP users when thinking about upgrading.

You know what happens when the driver request something then it gets denied? It throws a stop message, the system then throws a BSOD. You obviously don't know much about Windows and it's processes. A BSOD is displayed when the system gets an unexpected result and then it doesn't know what to do. Thankfully enough, developers program "ifs" into their drivers and applications to say if they can't get a response from the service throw up this error instead of just stopping. That's why Vista and XP had so many BSODs, devs weren't using mature tools. VS 2005 and 2008 now auto do some of that stuff for them.

So if you aren't getting any erros thrown as a result of being denied or random BSODs then you obviously aren't using any software/drivers that would call the service therefore they would NEVER load anyways. Disabling them serves no purpose in that case. Since they are manual by default then your argument is null and void.*

*= unless they were set to automatic and you disabled them - now that's different). There are only a few of those tho that you can set to disable without disable some security or feature in the OS :)

[Ahmed Samir]

The only "tweaking" I'd do is to not run a whole bunch of memory-hogging stuff (which I definitely fail to do as my work requires it), disable "some" services that you do not need running on your computer "be careful", and not use Norton :p

Seriously, stay away from any "tweaker" which you can download, they all do unnecessary sometimes.

Good luck!

[farmeunit]

I didn't read all the posts, but you might look at http://www.blackviper.com/ if no one else has mentioned it.

[soldier1st]

+Koshy John: as others have said, if your reinstalling every 3 months then there is either something wrong or you messed something up and as others have said you need to use a VM for that as thats what they are for, i used to test stuff on my main system before deploying it to others but that would only mess up my system and reinstalling alot or even a little is very time consuming and sides why reinstall if you don't need to, it is far easier to mess up a vm as all you need to do is restore to the last snapshot wheras if something goes wrong on the main system and what if you can't fix it then a reinstall is needed, if your unsure of something then it is better to see what and how it handles and does in a vm so if something does go wrong then you can thank yourself for testing it in a safe enviroment, i'm sorry +Koshy John but your advice about stuff is IMHO 70-90% wrong(i know what your saying about personal experience and all but IMHO most of your personal experience i would question but with caution)

anyways Windows 7 is perfect the way it is and no tweaking needed.

[soonerproud]

How do I prove to you that services slow **** down? How about: get a netbook, install Norton, get accurate measurement on how much time it takes to boot, uninstall Norton, get an accurate measurement on how much times it takes to boot? Another way would be to get boot time measurements before and after disabling services (lets for example say that your netbook does not need internet connection, so you disable all those services) ...

Readyboost / Boot Files are not on the list of possible files to remove by CCleaner. Stop being repretative and read my entire post before replying - CCleander is a Crap Cleaner. What so hard to understand about that?

Antivirus software is designed to run constantly, thus the service is running constantly. Of course it impacts performance. If the machine is so slow that Norton brings it to a crawl, switch to MSE or another light weight AV that hardly impacts performance. You still are wrong on unused services, even if they are set to Automatic. Boot time is irrelevant to how a PC really performs in real task.

Yes it is a option that is unchecked by default. It is under the Advanced section of CCleaner and it is called "Old Prefetch Data". You are the one failing to read. You specifically said you clean up your boot files, which harms performance because ReadyBoot can't use them to stream line the boot process.

OMG it is slow! Throw More RAM on it!!

Image and Reinstall can be used interchangeably - if you have an image of a fresh install. Reimaging is easier.

Yes it can. I am running it right now. Bloated ? I can actually say that it is in a sense of overflowing with functionality that I don't care about. Luckily, one can easily disable this additional functionality and streamline his/her system to be much faster.

10 Seconds Off? I believe you yourself just talked about boot files and how you shouldn't touch them to speed up boot by 10 seconds, contradict much? And yes it does when you turn on a computer to watch a movie or something.

The last statement is a lie. Obviously you never checked that most automatic services and many manual ones run, but their functionality is fully useless for me.

You are the one who is anal about RAM usage so I posted the obvious, that you need more RAM if it is that much an issue.

No they are not interchangable and mean different things.

Reinstall: Starting from scratch and reinstalling everything

Imaging: Making a image of the OS, configurations, programs installed, drivers installed and even your user files if wanted.

Not the same thing

Functionality not used in Windows 7 does not affect performance as I have explained the reasons why in several post. I agree on a small SSD on a netbook the size of installation could be a issue, but then why would a buyer who needs space buy such a low space device?

I simply posted to you, who seems concerned about 10 seconds on boot time that you are actually hurting boot time by cleaning out your Prefetch Data (Boot Files).

Again, Windows 7 has a new feature called Services Triggers. Go read up on it because it is not a lie that services no longer run all the time, even when enabled as Automatic. You simply don't understand the technologies behind Windows.

It should be kinda obvious. If a registry key says load service XYZ, system will try to load that, fruitlessly as the files would be missing. So there are just many references to things that don't exist, they can't be used, but nontheless system searches for it.

Again, you simply don't understand what the registry is or how it works. The system does not search for anything. Programs that are installed refer to the registry for configuration information. Since the program is not installed, the registry keys have no effect on the system. The registry is simply Microsoft's version of config files. They don't impact the PC unless called upon by the software installed on the PC.

Hell I had to manually remove some things leftover by Norton (my Windows 7 copy came with the PC...).

It is a good practice. I mean, sometimes I had removed applications detected as still being installed because they were just bad (most of them were preinstalled).

Still being listed in Programs and Features as installed does not mean there is anything significant installed on the system. Yes Norton is horrible at cleaning itself up, but the important program files are gone and performance is not impacted. Again you simply don't understand how Windows really works.

Windows XP runs perfectly well on 256 MB RAM. The minimal RAM usage argument works in favor of XP, as with XP vs 7, there is more memory to use for the software - that is simply because XP is older and lighter and does not need the same minimums of memory to function.

Where were we taking about 256 of RAM again? I believe I stated that Win7 runs as well as XP on 512 of RAM. How did that get to 256 RAM again? Apples and oranges.

You are drastically missing the point. How the bloody **** are you supposed to notice effects of customization on high-end hardware?

Did you fail to read where I also installed Win 7 on lower end, low RAM machines or are you just failing to read my post? My PC is mainstream but hardly high end. If you want a faster PC, buy faster hardware.

...

Uh. No. As I said, the Windows 7 does not know if you need client / server functionality, wireless functionality, etc, etc... therefore by default it has most of that enabled.

Once again, none of that stuff even runs in the background by default if you never use it due to the priority IO system in Windows 7 and services triggers. I continue to give you the technical reasons why you are wrong, yet you continue to ignore something that can easily be researched.

[soonerproud]

What?! How could it be a turn-off when it's leaps and bounds better than XP's own search? You couldn't pay me to use XP's search over WDS 4.0. Your statement is baffling to say the least.

That is his problem, he still thinks of Win 7 like it is just a prettier XP. He has failed to research the technological changes like the networking stack, sound stack, driver stack, priority IO, services triggers, indexing changes, the graphics sub system changes, etc etc.

[soonerproud]

That is a reflection of YOUR tweaking abilities and not mine. How can manually timed measurements be classified a placebo effect??? A placebo effect can occur if something feels like it is faster - actual timings measured in a scientific manner cannot be brushed off as being a placebo effect.

You have failed to provide actual real world usage data that tweaking Windows 7 provides significant performance increases in everyday task. The only tweaking I do is I remove unwanted third party start up programs and I optimize the indexing service to only index the places and file types I care to search. All other tweaks do nothing for performance whatsoever on Windows 7.

PCPitstop may have made mistakes - but to the best of my knowledge they have never told people to disable Aero and Readyboost - maybe just Aero because when Vista came out, a sizable chunk of systems did not have powerful enough graphics to handle it. For example, corporate machines where they probably had powerful CPUs but very basic integrated graphics. I agree with you about the ActiveX part of it, and the reduced security.

PCPitstop did not just make mistakes, they blatantly refused to educate themselves on the actual technological changes in Windows and then proceeded to just bash Windows while breaking both programing and security protocols while trying to sell unnecessary tweaking software that could cause more harm than good. They violate basic security practices and refuse to support other browsers and even operating systems while touting how wonderful those oses are. (Cough linux cough) They are no better than gator and other companies they have criticized for years.

I DID NOT TELL ANYONE TO REINSTALL WINDOWS EVERY 3 MONTHS. There is a world of a difference between telling others WHAT I DO and WHAT I ADVISE OTHERS TO DO. I have specific reasons to do what I do, some of which I have already elaborated here. My intention when I revealed that I reinstalled Windows that often was to show that I have considerable practice going from a stock install to a "tweaked" one without refering to any guide. And NOT to imply that everyone should blindy follow my lead.

I apologize then because I misunderstood you.

Good for you on the first part - you know how to keep things humming smoothly. Fine. Just because you failed to extract better performance by tweaking your system does not mean nobody else can do it better that you. Tweaking is a risky business and just a single wrong tweak can leave your system slower than stock, and if you've applied a lot of tweaks it'll be hard to identify which one's causing the issue - in my honest opinion, this could possibly explain the bad experiences you've had.

I do not have any experience with overclocking PCs to boast of because the last desktop I had was purchased in 1997. So if I overclocked a system today and burnt the CPU, it does not mean that somebody else cannot do it better.

I explained in several post why most tweaks don't render better performance on Windows 7, refer to those. Don't you think if I have the knowledge to keep windows running smoothly that maybe I have the knowledge to tweak windows too?

I don't overclock any more because it is just not needed today, even on a low end CPU.

Shaving 10 seconds off a 40 second boot time means a 25% improvement in startup performance - I regularly manage to cut a 50 second one to 25-30. If that is not desirable to you, that's just you then. Services take time to start up, and unwanted services that are loaded use up memory needlessly. So if you know that a service is very likely to be required, you can at least set it to Automatically (delayed start) if not Automatically. Services you know you won't use can be disabled - for example if you know you will never use a wireless connection, you can disable associated services. Similarly for Tablet PC components, and IPv6 support, and many more like that. But the assumption here is that you intimately know how services work. And like you already mentioned, a wrong setting can drastically reduce system performance - for example, disabling readyboost can shoot a 40 second startup to a minute and a half or even two. A person who follows a "service guide" to tweak his services will not be able to identify the problem easily. But if you invest the time to learn, it will reap you dividends. At one point of time, I had Windows Vista booting in 26 seconds (40-50 otherwise) and using 300MB of RAM (700-900 otherwise) at idle with Norton Antivirus (2008 I think) installed, and 2 sidebar gadgets running - the experience being identical to or better than a stock install in every other way (wireless was disabled though; and I cleared the system cache to get a "true reading" of how much RAM Windows was really using). And I don't think I can do any better in Windows 7, because some of those service tweaks that I had to manually apply in Vista come set by default in Windows 7. And there is still room for improvement, just not as much as there was in Vista.

Windows 7 has the ability to cut it's own boot times over usage quite significant without tweaking. My PC boots to a usable desktop in less than thirty seconds without your tweaks. I simply remove from start up any unwanted third party programs and let Windows take care of the rest.

Again, one more time, services don't run until triggered to run in Windows 7 and stop as soon as they are no longer needed. Even the ones on Automatic start run the same way due to services triggers. We are talking Windows 7 tweaks, not Vista, not XP. Please stick to Windows 7. Disabling ReadyBoost disables ReadyBoot which hurts start up performance in windows 7. If you do not use any Tablet PC functionality, the service is not running as with IPV6. You are the one who has no understanding the changes in Windows 7 in the services stack, not I. Go google Service Triggers because your Vista advice is simply not applicable on Windows 7.

[Udedenkz]

Antivirus software is designed to run constantly, thus the service is running constantly. Of course it impacts performance. If the machine is so slow that Norton brings it to a crawl, switch to MSE or another light weight AV that hardly impacts performance. You still are wrong on unused services, even if they are set to Automatic. Boot time is irrelevant to how a PC really performs in real task.

Netbooks are pretty damn fast, that is if you know how to use one. Norton is a very good example how a service that loads during startup drastically slows down boot times and slows down the system overall.

Automatic services start automatically on start-up.

I use a-squared Free antivirus, which was I copied over from my previous install. Works without install which is big plus, and uses up less then 100 MB HD space, out of which 77MB is the signatures.

Yes it is a option that is unchecked by default. It is under the Advanced section of CCleaner and it is called "Old Prefetch Data". You are the one failing to read. You specifically said you clean up your boot files, which harms performance because ReadyBoot can't use them to stream line the boot process.

> old prefetch data

> old prefetch

> old

...

You are the one who is anal about RAM usage so I posted the obvious, that you need more RAM if it is that much an issue.

There is no point in wasting money on RAM if the issue is bloatware, etc. "Install more RAM", is the computer equivalent of "Print more money". Solution is not a solution.

No they are not interchangable and mean different things.

There is no difference between creating a clean image right after an install of W7 and using that image to "reinstall Windows" and just to reinstall Windows.

That is unless you are talking about two different computers - where a clean image would not suffice.

Reinstall: Starting from scratch and reinstalling everything

Imaging: Making a image of the OS, configurations, programs installed, drivers installed and even your user files if wanted.

Not the same thing

In that case an Image is the better choice, although programs get updated too often, you will have to update most of them.

Therefore I don't think of an image as anything else then a image of a clean install.

Functionality not used in Windows 7 does not affect performance as I have explained the reasons why in several post. I agree on a small SSD on a netbook the size of installation could be a issue, but then why would a buyer who needs space buy such a low space device?

Well, actually it is used in Windows 7 as it is not additional functionality. It is though not used by the hardware, setting, and the user. It effect performance, as I have explained

- It is loaded into memory at boot

- Slows down boot (because it is loaded at boot)

- Sits more or less idly in memory (because it is loaded into memory at boot), i.e. there is less memory available for superfetch and applications.

- There is no guarantee that it will sit idly in memory - further resource usage

Surely not a lot. But same could be said about bloated applications, surely they don't slow things down a lot, that is until you install enough of them.

Not sure what space has to do with anything. I mean you will have more space if you disable hibernation file, and instead always use standby (which is faster, but wastes battery life slowly). But, disabling services doesn't really help with space. De-bloating does !

I simply posted to you, who seems concerned about 10 seconds on boot time that you are actually hurting boot time by cleaning out your Prefetch Data (Boot Files).

See above.

Again, Windows 7 has a new feature called Services Triggers. Go read up on it because it is not a lie that services no longer run all the time, even when enabled as Automatic. You simply don't understand the technologies behind Windows.

I am well aware of that. The only service that I noticed that does this is the one that is required for Windows genuine check thing. It is sometimes run.

Other services are not the case. Otherwise, I wouldn't need to disable them - I would be like - "Huh, not running, cool..."

Again, you simply don't understand what the registry is or how it works. The system does not search for anything. Programs that are installed refer to the registry for configuration information. Since the program is not installed, the registry keys have no effect on the system. The registry is simply Microsoft's version of config files. They don't impact the PC unless called upon by the software installed on the PC.

You just keep thinking that. After a successful (by Microsoft standards of success) uninstall of Office 2007 trial, WU offered me updated to the non-existent Office 2007 install. That is until I fixed the problem.

What registry doesn't have a significant impact on is the boot time, everything else it does - significantly so.

I was not talking about book keeping entries either, more of file associations, services, etc. You can either fix those manually or run a registry cleaner, etc.

If you don't think so, then allow me to post a file that messes up default file extensions. It would be a QED, but others might not read and apply it... so, not sure.

Still being listed in Programs and Features as installed does not mean there is anything significant installed on the system. Yes Norton is horrible at cleaning itself up, but the important program files are gone and performance is not impacted. Again you simply don't understand how Windows really works.

It wasn't. Its components were. that and easily were found all over the place. That is why cleaning is important whether it is components left over on HD, or in the registry.

Where were we taking about 256 of RAM again? I believe I stated that Win7 runs as well as XP on 512 of RAM. How did that get to 256 RAM again? Apples and oranges.

Because you think that running W7 on 512MB System is something worthy of mentioning? Try 128 or 256, then it would be interesting to hear about.

Did you fail to read where I also installed Win 7 on lower end, low RAM machines or are you just failing to read my post? My PC is mainstream but hardly high end. If you want a faster PC, buy faster hardware.

You surely didn't benchmark it correctly or just care to look beyond your BIAS.

This is an interesting assumption. I am not sure why I would want more power.

Once again, none of that stuff even runs in the background [b]by default[/b] if you never use it due to the priority IO system in Windows 7 and services triggers. I continue to give you the technical reasons why you are wrong, yet you continue to ignore something that can easily be researched.

I am running W7 as my primary OS. So that the research. Do you think I would be arguing with the likes of you if Windows 7 did have smart service configurations ? No, waste of my time actually. I am just tackling your absolute trash information.

If your above statement was correct then I would need to disable almost any services. They wouldn't run, they wouldn't allocate a comfy spot in my memory. They wouldn't slow down the boot speed. Task Manager would not should a lot of processes running.

But, the thing is, your statement is incorrect. First, there is no way no how can a system guess what services / functionality a user needs - if you want to argue on this, well, you just want me to ignore you. Second, explain to me pretty please (ignoring the first point), how you can be right when disabling functionality (services) that I did not use and did not want, reduced my memory usage significantly, increases my boot speeds, and decreased the amount of running processes as reported by the task manager?

[boogerjones]

I think the 2 of you should go have sex. With each other.

[kjx]

My PC boots to a usable desktop in less than thirty seconds without your tweaks.

I'm pretty sure your harddisk is faster than mine (5400rpm, and the associated bottlenecks in random seeks), so a 30 second startup comparison with mine would not really be a reflection of much. Tweaking is easily outdone by superior hardware.

Again, one more time, services don't run until triggered to run in Windows 7 and stop as soon as they are no longer needed. Even the ones on Automatic start run the same way due to services triggers. We are talking Windows 7 tweaks, not Vista, not XP. Please stick to Windows 7.

Here's the thing with service triggers - when a trigger "fires", Windows attempts to startup the requested service and a service takes time to load - trying shutdown the Network Connections service manually for example (this is only an example to see service load times! I'm not implying anything else about this service, and I'm not implying all services take the same amount of time to load.) and see how long it takes to startup again. So when something you do requests a service that is not running, it will cause a delay in performing the requested operation. Now suppose you know this and set that service to load Automatically, you will not face that delay because it is already running when the request comes through (in regular usage, only a few services like software protection that startup automatically stop on their own - the others are usually requested often enough not to stop). In this case, you knowingly trade-off memory usage for faster performance - deviating from one of Microsoft's preset configurations (which make reasonable assumptions about what the average user needs and does that quite well).

Let's take a very specific example - the HomeGroup Provider and Listener services - their default states are Manual (Started). Each take about 2 seconds to load on their own. Far lesser in practice because services are loaded in parallel, but still not negligible because of the cumulative effect. I have no use for the HomeGroup services (not everyone's like that and I agree but this is an example where my requirements deviate from Microsoft's preset config). How much time do I save on just these two? Maybe a second - I honestly don't know. But it adds up when you consider all such services, and that is certainly noticable and reliably measurable.

If you have sufficiently fast hardware, this won't matter to you - what is a 15 second startup to a 20 second one anyway. But it can mean a lot of difference from a 50 second one to 30, or a minute and a half to less than a minute. For such people, it is indeed worthwhile to have a look at tweaking services.

Disabling ReadyBoost disables ReadyBoot which hurts start up performance in windows 7.

Windows 7 does not have a separate ReadyBoost service like Vista did - it's part of Superfetch now. And if you look at what you've quoted, I've never advocated disabling ReadyBoost - I only stated the undesirable effect disabling it would have.

You are the one who has no understanding the changes in Windows 7 in the services stack, not I. Go google Service Triggers because your Vista advice is simply not applicable on Windows 7.

I'm sorry but going by your statements regarding that ReadyBoost service for one, I find that hard to believe that you have the level of expertise with Windows 7 services that you claim. And if I had no understanding of the changes in Windows 7 services, I would not even be able to have this discussion, let alone call you out on the mistakes you make.

[kjx]

I apologize for butting in, but I just wanted to state some things in relation to what I read.

It is under the Advanced section of CCleaner and it is called "Old Prefetch Data".

I simply posted to you, who seems concerned about 10 seconds on boot time that you are actually hurting boot time by cleaning out your Prefetch Data (Boot Files).

Old prefetch data means exactly that - old prefetch data, and not all prefetch data. Have a look at your prefetch folder after you run that to see what is removed and what is left behind.

Clearing out the *.pf files in the Prefetch folder reduces the performance of individual applications and not the startup performance. Deleting all but the latest trace in the ReadyBoot subfolder will have no discernable impact on system startup speed either.

That said, Windows automatically prunes Prefetch data, and what CCleaner does is being more aggressive without affecting system performance in any significant way.

Again, you simply don't understand what the registry is or how it works. The system does not search for anything. Programs that are installed refer to the registry for configuration information. Since the program is not installed, the registry keys have no effect on the system. The registry is simply Microsoft's version of config files. They don't impact the PC unless called upon by the software installed on the PC.

So if I had 200 entries in "HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Current Version\Run" that pointed to executables that did not exist, it would have no impact on startup performance?

And suppose my software created 20,000 random keys in "HKCU\Software\KoshyJohn\FakeDemo", it would have no impact on system performance? No software would care about those entries, and Windows wouldn't care either, thus meeting your conditions.

If you really believe that the answer to the two questions above is yes, I'm sorry but you are wrong. Once the registry size grows beyond a point (space allocated to older entries don't get deallocated when they are deleted apparently), its files will physically fragment causing it to load it slower when Windows starts up and it will also consume more memory.

Still being listed in Programs and Features as installed does not mean there is anything significant installed on the system. Yes Norton is horrible at cleaning itself up, but the important program files are gone and performance is not impacted. Again you simply don't understand how Windows really works.

How Windows works is one thing, how the underlying file system works is another. Any file or folder entry in the MFT impacts performance in a tiny negligible way. So if I created a program that creates just 1000s of folders (nested and otherwise) in a folder that no software or Windows cares about, going by your assertions, there would not be any impact on system performance. But that is not the case. It's not very hard to write a batch file that does it - try it out if you don't believe me. Beyond a point the MFT will get fragmented (this happens quite easily even in real world usage; and like the registry, the MFT also does not shrink if a file is deleted - the space may be reused for another file however). If there are files left behind by programs, particularly big ones, they'll very likely get in the way of faster seeks when the drive head needs to jump from one track to another.

Not to speak of references to stray DLLs that might be set to load automatically for no reason. Bottom line is entries in the registry that are not needed and files/folders on the file system that are not needed have a deterimental effect on performance. All of Windows 7's strengths don't make up for the flaws in the NTFS file system which can degrade performance in a way Windows 7 cannot manage. Which is why even a Windows 7 installation won't last indefinitely (far longer than all previous versions though) before requiring the system partition to be wiped clean to reset the file system - it's not really Windows 7's fault, but still. You could use a third-party defragmenter to handle the MFT but I've not tried any of those.

[kjx]

+Koshy John: as others have said, if your reinstalling every 3 months then there is either something wrong or you messed something up and as others have said you need to use a VM for that as thats what they are for, i used to test stuff on my main system before deploying it to others but that would only mess up my system and reinstalling alot or even a little is very time consuming and sides why reinstall if you don't need to, it is far easier to mess up a vm as all you need to do is restore to the last snapshot wheras if something goes wrong on the main system and what if you can't fix it then a reinstall is needed, if your unsure of something then it is better to see what and how it handles and does in a vm so if something does go wrong then you can thank yourself for testing it in a safe enviroment, i'm sorry +Koshy John but your advice about stuff is IMHO 70-90% wrong(i know what your saying about personal experience and all but IMHO most of your personal experience i would question but with caution)

anyways Windows 7 is perfect the way it is and no tweaking needed.

Yes, you are right, I need to get a virtual machine. I had tried Microsoft Virtual PC a few years back but it was horrible (running Windows XP on Vista). What other free virtual machines can you recommend? VMWare Player? But you can't create images with that can you? How do you find the performance of whatever you are using? How about ease with which you can get to the internet through the VM?

[hdood]

VMWare Player? But don't you can't create images with that can you?

Yes, you can.

There's also VirtualBox.

How do you find the performance of whatever you are using?

It's worse, but remember that it's for testing, not to use as your primary system.

How about ease with which you can get to the internet through the VM?

Same as on a real machine.

[bjoswald]

System services:

Wouldn't it be best to set unnecessary services to "Manual" rather than "Disabled"?