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I Need To Learn The Past 3-4 Years Or So Of Web Development. Where?


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Just as the title says, I need to catch up on Web Development.

For those that may or may not know, I did web design for a decent amount of time a few years back. I did it back in the days of HTML tables, I could make a nested table with the best of them, and the extent that I used CSS was to control the font's look and nothing else. Wish I was kidding. With that said I am familiar with CSS, and when I look at the Source Code these days of sites I am not completely lost.

So for the past few years in my career I have gotten out of web, and I think I may want to get back to the web side of things. Not sure but I do know I was not crazy doing what I was doing.

The biggest thing is I consider myself a multimedia-graphic designer more than anything else. I can develop so to speak, but I really do not like doing so, and I am by no means a hardcore programmer.

So here is my current portfolio based website, done entirely in Flash (yeah I know, everyone hates Flash, do not bother with that, I know I am behind the times just having a site in Flash, but I needed to get something up).

Blank Canvas Media

Here are some examples of websites I did back when I did them (all pre-2006) (all on my site but figured I would save the click throughs)...

Flash Based Kool Konnections

Flash / HTML Based Orion Fashions (Sister Company Of Kool Konnections)

HTML Based Agents Of Man

Flash Based NuVision Graphics

HTML / Flash Based - Pharmaceutical Company

Flash Based "Game" - Scooter Smash

So as you will see and as I said, I was more about the design side of things and I know how to develop a little, but I never considered myself a developer.

Honestly at this point in time, I am trying to find more of a Director position as I have had in the past, so hopefully I can just lead a team of people, but with that said, not only would I would still like to know what they are doing naturally and do it if I need to, and more important if I cannot find a director position, I need to know how to develop it is becoming more and more apparent.

So my question is a very simple question. What sites and resources do people use nowadays for web development?

I have already found a few places myself, but if I google web development, I get a whole, whole lot of nonsense as you could imagine, so I want to know from the people doing it, where did you learn?

Again, please no comments about Flash is dead for websites. I know this, it is half the reason I am asking for help. And that is what I do consider this, help, so thank you very much in advanced to anyone that does answer me seriously. It is much appreciated, as this is not just a hobby, this is my career, and if I do not make a decision soon just what path I want to get back on, things will not be easy.

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I won't pretend to be modest here; I think can answer nearly every coding question that comes up on these boards front-end or server side, and I learned every ounce of it by myself.

To be honest, mate, my sole recommendations would be:

- For any actual scripting, read the official manual at the official website. Examples would be php.net and jquery.com.

- For any basic markup like XHTML and CSS, just inspect some websites with Firebug.

- For any gaps, Google.

Also, ActionScript skills are a huge asset! Don't let anybody else poo-poo on that. HTML 5 is not here yet.

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I won't pretend to be modest here; I think can answer nearly every coding question that comes up on these boards front-end or server side, and I learned every ounce of it by myself.

To be honest, mate, my sole recommendations would be:

- For any actual scripting, read the official manual at the official website. Examples would be php.net and jquery.com.

- For any basic markup like XHTML and CSS, just inspect some websites with Firebug.

- For any gaps, Google.

Also, ActionScript skills are a huge asset! Don't let anybody else poo-poo on that. HTML 5 is not here yet.

Thanks for the reply. Never knew of the importance of Firebug, so that was an extremely huge help for sure right there. (Y)

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Thanks for the reply. Never knew of the importance of Firebug, so that was an extremely huge help for sure right there. (Y)

I think the biggest strength of Firebug, particularly when learning things, is the ability to very flexibly edit the information it displays. It is also what makes Firebug better than similar inspectors built into other browsers. You can edit the HTML and CSS on the fly, and see just kind of behavior different properties and combinations of properties produce.

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Larry, as someone who is developing in multiple languages and doing design as well, I can tell you that these are the skills you MUST have in order to really get into web dev.

- Javascript / Jquery

- PHP

- AS3

- SQL (for MySQL and PHP)

you can build from there but this should be a must in every web developer's toolbox. The best part about AS3 is that it allows you to build cross platform apps too and desktop apps.

Also, learn about XML, JSON and so on and how to parse it with PHP, AS3 as well because a lot of your work will consist of utilizing data that's either XML or JSON.

The best part with ECMAScript based languages is that they all look very very similar. So you learn one you'll get into the other one super fast.

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Larry, as someone who is developing in multiple languages and do all the design myself, I can tell you that these are the skills you MUST have in order to really get into dev.

- Javascript / Jquery

- PHP

- AS3

- SQL (for MySQL and PHP)

you can build from there but this should be a must in every web developer's toolbox. The best part about AS3 is that it allows you to build cross platform apps too and desktop apps.

Also, learn about XML, JSON and so on and how to parse it with PHP, AS3 as well because a lot of your work will consist of utilizing data that's either XML or JSON.

Thanks Boz. I think without meaning to do so, you may have just help me make up my mind. I believe it is time for a new career path. What, I do not know, but I just do not think web is for me anymore.

I went to Parsons School of Design. I have a BFA in Illustration. I have painted and drawn since I am 5 years old, literally. So simply put, I consider myself an Artist.

Literally I have painted...

PAINTINGS_01.jpg

I have drawn...

ILL_cutoff.jpg

I have combined the two...

ILL_GOTTI.jpg

But it is becoming more and more apparent to me for that for awhile I was able to just get by as being a "designer" when the whole web thing first started out. I would design things, and either I could convert that design into a simple website, or I would work with programmers to make it happen.

Now the way things are, it is just really clear to me in order to also be a web designer, or "an artist" as I view it, you also need to know some pretty hardcore programming to "keep up with the Jones'" so to speak.

It is not that I am not even sure I could not learn those things you say, I am pretty sure I could if I put my mind to it, just the truth is I just do not think I want to learn them. I am miserable when looking at code, I truly am.

So I appreciate your help tremendously. Same to Hot and to anyone else who may response in case someone else is reading this down the line that may need help, but it is becoming real clear to me that I need to switch gears and figure out what I could feasibly possibly maybe do and still somehow remain an artist. It may turn out that is not feasible and that I need to switch gears up entirely, I am not sure, but I am pretty sure I am just not into learning coding.

Perhaps I just feel overwhelmed right now, but this is how I do honestly feel, that it is time to make a change. To what, I am not sure.

Again though, appreciate the help. I truly, truly do. (Y)

And FTR I wanted to say, I have felt this way for quite some time now, I think it all just become an actual fact thanks to the creation of and the realization of this thread. I meant to make this thread months ago TBH, so I think part of the reason I put it off was because deep down I knew this would possibly be the end result.

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But it is becoming more and more apparent to me for that for awhile I was able to just get by as being a "designer" when the whole web thing first started out. I would design things, and either I could convert that design into a simple website, or I would work with programmers to make it happen.

Now the way things are, it is just really clear to me in order to also be a web designer, or "an artist" as I view it, you also need to know some pretty hardcore programming to "keep up with the Jones'" so to speak.

It is not that I am not even sure I could not learn those things you say, I am pretty sure I could if I put my mind to it, just the truth is I just do not think I want to learn them. I am miserable when looking at code, I truly am.

So I appreciate your help tremendously. Same to Hot and to anyone else who may response in case someone else is reading this down the line that may need help, but it is becoming real clear to me that I need to switch gears and figure out what I could feasibly possibly maybe do and still somehow remain an artist. It may turn out that is not feasible and that I need to switch gears up entirely, I am not sure, but I am pretty sure I am just not into learning coding.

Perhaps I just feel overwhelmed right now, but this is how I do honestly feel, that it is time to make a change. To what, I am not sure.

Again though, appreciate the help. I truly, truly do. (Y)

And FTR I wanted to say, I have felt this way for quite some time now, I think it all just become an actual fact thanks to the creation of and the realization of this thread. I meant to make this thread months ago TBH, so I think part of the reason I put it off was because deep down I knew this would possibly be the end result.

Hey you can ask whatever you want.. I can help you learn these things and there are others here who can help you too.

It's not really hard.. C/C++/Obj-C are really tough languages to learn because they are very tedious and low-level languages. It's comparable to Assembly back in the day. Performance wise they are the best languages but as far as fun factor, they are really not so nice to work in.

You are absolutely right.. it's not enough to be a designer only these days.. Sure, you can make a living and do things design wise but the value of a designer is much less today because it's a requirement that everyone really wants from people working on projects.

But I'll tell you this.. from creative side.. once you learn AS3, PHP and so on a whole new creative world opens up in front of you. Not only you will be able to imagine something visually but your mindset will change in terms of how you can make that information and visuals appear dynamically. This is what knowing programming languages offers you. It's a whole new level of your work.

AS3 can be a bit intimidating with event listeners, event dispatchers, xml parsing and OOP way of doing things but once you get a hang of it (it's not that hard) it becomes incredibly easy and you are only limited with your imagination.

My suggestion is for you to check out PHP first. PHP is OOP language and it will probably get you to learn some OOP principles before you plunge into AS3 and JS/Jquery.

As I noted, the greatest thing about this is that syntax of all of these 3 languages is VERY VERY similar. So once you learn one, learning the other one is a breeze. It basically boils down to you looking the equivalent of functions in the language reference. The rest of the stuff is the same.

If you need any help learning AS3, PHP or JS/Jquery post it up and I'll try to chime in to help you start off properly.

A few things you want to read about:

1. Classes

2. Object properties, methods

3. functions

4. conditional statements

5. Parent/Child inheritance

6. XML object and nodes and JSON format

Once you read through this and get a basic understanding of what these are, you will be ready to start writing simple code to check out how each works.

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I'm just getting into web design as a hobby but I'd say that if you are happy designing then you should try it. There are even services that will convert a PSD to xhtml/css for you for relatively cheap. That way, you can stick to what you like to do (design), and leave the coding to others. Maybe you won't be able to make a living off of that alone, but it would be nice to do what you love and make a little money on the side. (Y)

http://sixrevisions....nal-web-design/

http://sixrevisions....css-conversion/

http://net.tutsplus....o-html-and-css/ <-- there's a video tutorial that will teach you the basics of xhtml/css towards the bottom

http://net.tutsplus.com/tutorials/html-css-techniques/how-to-design-and-code-a-flexible-website/

There are lots of tutorials out there, hope some of these help! :)

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Hey you can ask whatever you want.. I can help you learn these things and there are others here who can help you too.

It's not really hard.. C/C++/Obj-C are really tough languages to learn because they are very tedious and low-level languages. It's comparable to Assembly back in the day. Performance wise they are the best languages but as far as fun factor, they are really not so nice to work in.

You are absolutely right.. it's not enough to be a designer only these days.. Sure, you can make a living and do things design wise but the value of a designer is much less today because it's a requirement that everyone really wants from people working on projects.

But I'll tell you this.. from creative side.. once you learn AS3, PHP and so on a whole new creative world opens up in front of you. Not only you will be able to imagine something visually but your mindset will change in terms of how you can make that information and visuals appear dynamically. This is what knowing programming languages offers you. It's a whole new level of your work.

AS3 can be a bit intimidating with event listeners, event dispatchers, xml parsing and OOP way of doing things but once you get a hang of it (it's not that hard) it becomes incredibly easy and you are only limited with your imagination.

My suggestion is for you to check out PHP first. PHP is OOP language and it will probably get you to learn some OOP principles before you plunge into AS3 and JS/Jquery.

As I noted, the greatest thing about this is that syntax of all of these 3 languages is VERY VERY similar. So once you learn one, learning the other one is a breeze. It basically boils down to you looking the equivalent of functions in the language reference. The rest of the stuff is the same.

If you need any help learning AS3, PHP or JS/Jquery post it up and I'll try to chime in to help you start off properly.

A few things you want to read about:

1. Classes

2. Object properties, methods

3. functions

4. conditional statements

5. Parent/Child inheritance

6. XML object and nodes and JSON format

Once you read through this and get a basic understanding of what these are, you will be ready to start writing simple code to check out how each works.

Thanks again Boz. I slept on it, and still not sure about anything right now, but what is good is what you list above, I already have somewhat of at least a minimal base understanding off. So if I have any questions, I will make sure to ask them.

I'm just getting into web design as a hobby but I'd say that if you are happy designing then you should try it. There are even services that will convert a PSD to xhtml/css for you for relatively cheap. That way, you can stick to what you like to do (design), and leave the coding to others. Maybe you won't be able to make a living off of that alone, but it would be nice to do what you love and make a little money on the side. (Y)

http://sixrevisions....nal-web-design/

http://sixrevisions....css-conversion/

http://net.tutsplus....o-html-and-css/ <-- there's a video tutorial that will teach you the basics of xhtml/css towards the bottom

http://net.tutsplus....exible-website/

There are lots of tutorials out there, hope some of these help! :)

Thanks. Much appreciated. (Y)

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...

Also, ActionScript skills are a huge asset! Don't let anybody else poo-poo on that. HTML 5 is not here yet.

Depends on what parts of HTML5 you mean.

And ActionScript is just JavaScript with a different name, the APIs are different of course though.

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Also curious all, for learning this stuff, what is the software of choice? Since I come from the old school and I am more of a designer, I actually used Adobe GoLive as it was WYSIWYG. I also used Dreamweaver, and that is what I have been using since they stopped production of GoLive, so are there any better apps for the development side other than Dreamweaver?

Also correct me if I am wrong, but especially with php, you need to have it on a server to make it work correct? So I guess I am curious is there some kind of server emulation software that you all use? Do you just set up a virtual server in Dreamweaver? Or do I need to actually have the files on a server to view them in action? Reason I ask is I have a good friend who is a great developer and designer, and he just passed on two of the more recent sites he has worked on, both done in PHP, so I would like to view them in action without uploading to a server so to speak.

TIA,

DL

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You do need a web server but it doesn't have to be a remote web server. Just install Apache, MySQL and PHP on your machine. :)

For coding, Dreamweaver is still king. Especially if you are learning, you should stick to something with a visual preview rather than a text-only editor, which is what most black sheep who aren't fond of Dreamweaver use.

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Also curious all, for learning this stuff, what is the software of choice? Since I come from the old school and I am more of a designer, I actually used Adobe GoLive as it was WYSIWYG. I also used Dreamweaver, and that is what I have been using since they stopped production of GoLive, so are there any better apps for the development side other than Dreamweaver?

Also correct me if I am wrong, but especially with php, you need to have it on a server to make it work correct? So I guess I am curious is there some kind of server emulation software that you all use? Do you just set up a virtual server in Dreamweaver? Or do I need to actually have the files on a server to view them in action? Reason I ask is I have a good friend who is a great developer and designer, and he just passed on two of the more recent sites he has worked on, both done in PHP, so I would like to view them in action without uploading to a server so to speak.

TIA,

DL

Just install xampp on your desktop machine. It contains all the software you need to test out php code. Apache server, PHP, mysql and phpmyadmin... and more

Just a matter of running the installer - you dont have to set up anything else. Once it's installed, just put your files in the correct directory and view the site through http://localhost/

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Dreamweaver will gladly work with a local server setup (Years ago when I was in school, I had a 98 box running IIS, and had Dreamweaver running on it)

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Thanks again all. Much appreciated. (Y)

I think my plan of attack is to first design a new site for myself with certain goals and technologies in mind. I was then thinking I could post it, mark it up with numbers and explain what I want each number to do so to speak (for example "I want this section to update itself). Then just try and make it happen, and if people are willing to suggest the different ways and approaches I can take to make it happen, as I know there are several solutions more often than not, that would be ideal. Then I can try and learn them all and/or just see what I am most comfortable with.

I just am feeling like if I give myself an end target result, it will make it all a bit easier and practical rather than just trying to learn random things then mash them together, if that makes any sense.

This may change and I indeed may just try and learn a technology at a time so to speak, but this is my initial thinking after I think deciding perhaps I will indeed give it all a go after-all.

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Larry is good at graphics. I suck at them. You might have seen my request on a blog suggestion. I'd like to make myself a nice template. I have access to enough stock images through a DVD I purchased and of course the no-royalty don't pay freebies on the web.

I've thought of using some cool background images and such. I love watching the You suck at Photoshop videos on Youtube, and I think they're directed at me. Any guides for noobs who don't care about professional looks? :)

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Dreamweaver will gladly work with a local server setup (Years ago when I was in school, I had a 98 box running IIS, and had Dreamweaver running on it)

Yes ^ true that..

Actually Dreamweaver has incredibly powerful tools that allow you to connect to local and remote databases.

It's fool proof guide (wizard style) on what you need to do to access database for example.

What this does, even though Dreamweaver sometimes does have a tendency to add a ton of code you don't really need is that it will give you a basic understanding of code and how you establish connections to databases for example so you can eventually write these yourself. Server behaviors in DW are also great for novices because it does work for you but also will help you peak into how things are done like Repeating regions and fetching data rows from databases.

Dreamweaver is by far my favorite editor because it can save you a ton of time aligning and working with visual elements while you split the screen and work on the code in one window and see results with another.

With Dreamweaver CS5 they are introducing HTML5 and even better CSS workflow plus better syntax reference and syntax code completion.

What's great is that they are using most likely the same technology in Flash where DW imports custom php class or classes with other languages you are working with as soon as you try to instantiate your custom class and then gives you code completion and functions of that custom class as you type. This is HUGE for any developer.

Overall, for a design that wants to go dev as well DW is a great tool.

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Larry is good at graphics. I suck at them. You might have seen my request on a blog suggestion. I'd like to make myself a nice template. I have access to enough stock images through a DVD I purchased and of course the no-royalty don't pay freebies on the web.

I've thought of using some cool background images and such. I love watching the You suck at Photoshop videos on Youtube, and I think they're directed at me. Any guides for noobs who don't care about professional looks? :)

Amen. great pieces of art Larry.

Boz, you inadvertently gave me some career advice as well, Thanks! :D

Thanks to the both of you. (Y) Your comments about my art really are appreciated, especially thanks to what I believe my decision is. Let me explain.

Basically I had a long talk with my wife tonight, that was more or less ongoing the past two days, and was resolved tonight.

I got into web design initially because after I graduated from Parsons, I actually pursued a career in music for close to 6 years.

Once I gave up my dreams of being a rock star, I had to go into doing something related to art, and fast, and it just turned out a good friend of mine, his boss left to start an internet start up company. He wanted artists he could teach the computer to, and that at the time was me. Next thing I knew that was my career. I enjoyed it, as I was fortunate to make a living out of something I have done my entire life, and not many people can say that, but at that time, I really was a designer with very little development skills.

My point is sitting back and just analyzing what my strength is, it is the fact I am an artist. And I need to not lose focus on that fact. I am hung up on what I have done in the past, instead of focusing on what I can do in the future. The other truth is, the web is not really exciting to me anymore from a purely design perspective. No offense to anyone that does it, and ironically even though I was the designer, I always have actually felt the most important thing about a website is it works and the design was secondary, and honestly that is the case more so than ever nowadays.

So as I said, I had a long discussion with my wife tonight, and I am just going to research things, and see what I can do, probably computer related, but that takes my strengths as an artist, and lets me still be creative as much as one can be while making a living. It may very well be after I do that, I indeed come full circle back to web development. However maybe it means I go back to school, and learn let's say 3D Animation. Or just something specific with 3D, like a texture artist. It may mean I turn my focus into the ad agency world and get into branding, advertising, etc.

Basically though we both agreed I need to capitalize on the fact I am an artist. That is what separates me from others. I have had this "god given ability," as it has been known since I am 6 years old. So the overall belief of us both is why should I settle on learn development and more than likely be not all that happy, and why not say this is finally the time I let the artist side dictate what I should do. It is going to mean just as much work as if I chose development, no doubt about it.

I am also going to reach out to some old friends from school. My best friend in college, he was actually in charge of the lighting for Mystique (and only her) in the first two XMen movies. My roommate Evan is the founder of Jib Jab, who I am sure a few of you have heard of. So reach out to them, as they know me, and they know this business, to hear what they think I should possibly do. Also go to a career counselor and see what they say. I mentioned to my wife that for example if I do get into 3D, we would maybe have to move as that industry is not necessarily booming here in New Jersey, and she actually said if that is what you wind up learning, and what you wind up loving, then we move.

So right now I have a lot of decisions to make. But a huge one as been made with the fact I am going to try and stick to what my strength is and what makes me happy. While I figure it all out, I have decided I will do an editorial illustration like every day to every other day for awhile. Do some logo design, just get back to design as design for design's sake. :laugh:

<snipped>

Thanks again Boz. Your help has truly been incredibly honest and valuable, and I appreciate that.

And like I said, it may be I come full circle back to web after analyzing things. We will see. :yes:

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