nubs Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 A recent journal post by famed movie critic Roger Ebert has caused a ruckus. He claims that video games can never be art. What do you think? http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2010/04/video_games_can_never_be_art.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hani Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 They're definitely art. I have total respect for Ebert, but he's clearly wrong about this. A great game can always exceed a great movie. At least the video game industry is still producing great games, unlike the movie industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massiveterra Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 He makes good points though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spookie Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 Has he played a game? No. His argument is mute then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted April 20, 2010 Veteran Share Posted April 20, 2010 Certain games have been studied by many art theorists before, like Metal Gear Solid 2. Interesting debate, however I will leave here a question: If it has a narrative, why not? Every art piece has a narrative, either fluid or static. The difference with games is that this narrative is interactive. If some movies are truly art pieces, why not some games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anibal P Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 Just like most people of his Generation, he is absolutely wrong in his perceptions. He comes off as just another jaded ****ed off old man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
still1 Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 Video games can never be an art. its just a piece of software just like any other PC/Mac/linux software. Would you consider a software an art???????? It def have some cool graphics and interesting when compared to other software but not an art. I design software and website. I dont consider them art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hani Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 Certain games have been studied by many art theorists before, like Metal Gear Solid 2. Interesting debate, however I will leave here a question: If it has a narrative, why not? Every art piece has a narrative, either fluid or static. The difference with games is that this narrative is interactive. If some movies are truly art pieces, why not some games? Interactive part of games is what can possibly make them better. Rather than watching a character go on with his life, you can control it. Another question, if we filmed someone (just the screen) playing a game till the end would that make it art? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PL_ Veteran Posted April 20, 2010 Veteran Share Posted April 20, 2010 They're definitely art. I have total respect for Ebert, but he's clearly wrong about this. A great game can always exceed a great movie. At least the video game industry is still producing great games, unlike the movie industry. All you seem to have said here is that you think great games are better than great movies. Just because you enjoy something doesn't mean that something is artistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hani Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 All you seem to have said here is that you think great games are better than great movies. Just because you enjoy something doesn't mean that something is artistic. It depends on how you define art. Also, I'm not talking about mindless action games. I'm talking about games that create for you beautiful and exciting experience that you'll remember (Oblivion, Mass Effect, System Shock, Bioshock). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrack Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 I think it is all a matter of opinion, and in my opinion Video games are art. I also think that software programming is an art and can definitely contain elements that are considered artistic. Anyway, the whole debate of what is art and what is not art reeks of "I'm an intellectual so listen to me" bull****. Some people need to get over themselves and get over the problems regarding semantics. If you don't think Video games are art, well..thats fine. It doesn't change a ****ing thing. Good for you. Have a cookie. LingeringSoul 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minifig Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 He makes good points though The titanic sunk because of a lot of stupid people. I make a good point .. doesn't mean I'm right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massiveterra Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 this is all a matter of opinion though, so that means no one's right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamp0 Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 Video games can never be an art. its just a piece of software just like any other PC/Mac/linux software. I think that's a bit primitive. Why can't it qualify if it's "software". There is undoubtedly art in video games. After all, artists work on games, from traditional artists, to writers and musicians. I feel Ebert is getting hung up on the word GAME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nubs Posted April 20, 2010 Author Share Posted April 20, 2010 I think that's a bit primitive. Why can't it qualify if it's "software". There is undoubtedly art in video games. After all, artists work on games, from traditional artists, to writers and musicians. I feel Ebert is getting hung up on the word GAME. Best argument yet. If artists and musicians and engineers all work on the game, is there work not art? What if you break up the individual components that make up a game? The fact that there are drawings, animation, music, stories... what exactly constitutes artwork? As a point of reference... is a painting still art to a blind man? Is music still art to a def man? I think you have hit on something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamoun Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 Video games can never be an art. its just a piece of software just like any other PC/Mac/linux software. A Movie can never be an art. it's just a piece of a photographic film just like any home video. A novel can never be an art. it's just a bunch of paper just like any other book. (It's a strange analogy but I think you got what I mean.) .Markus and sanctified 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted April 20, 2010 Veteran Share Posted April 20, 2010 All you seem to have said here is that you think great games are better than great movies. Just because you enjoy something doesn't mean that something is artistic. My opinion parts from art studies and I've mentioned the key point of narrative. So...? A Movie can never be an art. it's just a piece of a photographic film just like any home video. A novel can never be an art. it's just a bunch of paper just like any other book. (It's a strange analogy but I think you got what I mean.) Great analogy. An art form resides in the final product because the final product it's what stablish contact with the audience. It doesnt matter how its made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freak180 Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 Heavy Rain to me is considered art :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emn1ty Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Video games can never be an art. its just a piece of software just like any other PC/Mac/linux software. Would you consider a software an art???????? It def have some cool graphics and interesting when compared to other software but not an art. I design software and website. I dont consider them art. I am also a web designer and I consider everything from the flash animation, styling down to the PHP, HTML and CSS to be art. It may not be visual, but as an artist you use a MEDIUM to create something. There is no definition of what mediums are or are not artistic. The Teej 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctified Veteran Posted April 21, 2010 Veteran Share Posted April 21, 2010 I am also??a web designer and I consider everything from the flash animation, styling down to the PHP, HTML and CSS to be art. It may not be visual, but as an artist you use a MEDIUM to create something. There is no definition of what mediums are or are not artistic. And as a proof there is the already accepted cathegory of Net art. Well, said Emn1ty Im loving neowin more a more with these recent art threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre S. Veteran Posted April 21, 2010 Veteran Share Posted April 21, 2010 PC Gamer recently argued exactly the opposite, saying video games are not art, but much more. I would say that as games, they are not art. As a game, a video game is no more art than chess or tennis. There's a set of rules and mechanics, there are players, and the experience is their creation as they operate within the limits of the gameplay mechanics. This is not art, it's playing (or "gaming"). However, games do contain a lot of artistic content, which can legitimately be enjoyed for itself. When I play Baldur's Gate 2 I find myself thoroughly enjoying the terrific writing and beautiful vistas. There is art in (some) video games, and there is an artistic experience to be found within. Nonetheless, the art of video games is not there to be enjoyed for itself (even if it can), but to provide context to gameplay mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted April 21, 2010 Subscriber² Share Posted April 21, 2010 Why not, a ton of concept art get's drawn for games before they're actually created, some of which is kick ass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massiveterra Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 To return to my original post, I truly think Ebert makes some very interesting points. And while his blog title is called "Video Games can never be art" he then goes on to say Let me just say that no video gamer now living will survive long enough to experience the medium as an art form. We've got to remember that this is one man's opinion, and everyone's definition of art is subjective and unique. After reading his article in full, it's hard for me to justify why games should be considered art, and while I do agree that games use Art and elements of Art such as writing and composition, musical score, architectural design, costume design, concept art, and set design, I think I agree with him that the medium itself is NOT YET art. And while he compares video games to sports or games like mah jong or chess, I see where he's coming from. Can a ride at Disneyland be considered art? Can a game of Warhammer be considered art? These all use art elements to convey their objective but I personally do not consider them art. I find it funny that he added Why are gamers so intensely concerned, anyway, that games be defined as art? And I'm guessing that he's getting this extra attention caused by his original statement because And as I have mentioned, art is a personal definition, and I guess this simply Ebert's own opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre S. Veteran Posted April 21, 2010 Veteran Share Posted April 21, 2010 art is a personal definitionThere is no such thing as a commonly accepted word with only "personal" definitions; such a word would be useless as no two people could use it to communicate an idea, since in order to use a word to communicate an idea, both parties have to share a common understanding of what it means.It is clear for everyone that art stands for a human activity consisting in creating something that obeys certain principles of aesthetics, ie some human creation which purpose is to be enjoyed for its own beauty. Even though such a definition is vague and open to interpretation (hence the diversity of art), it still establishes a framework of thought in which it is possible to have a rational discussion about the matter. I strongly oppose anyone who thinks art cannot be discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Blood Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Read the entire article and as I was reading games like Planescape: Torment, ElderScrolls 3 Morrowind,just to name a few, came to mind. I'm sorry,but that guy picked some of the worst candidates because even I don't see those games as art. But what about the games that I mentioned earlier? Take for example Planescape Torment. You could never actually win that game because it didn't matter in the end. It had almost no action and most of the time you spent reading dialogues. It didn't even have amazing graphics even for it's time. And yet it is considered one of the best role playing games of all time and I don't see why you shouldn't consider that game an art. It made you think and reflect on a lot of things. It had an amazing storyline. The atmosphere was also amazing. But above all, it really had something deeper than any other game and there was more to it than just being a game which is the real reason why it was so good. I'm talking about the shape of the game's world(yes there is a deeper meaning to that, a lot of things in that game can be easily considered symbols with deeper meaning, the whole game can be considered a mirror image of the real world), the way everything fits together in that game,characters that actually stood for something, that I consider art. Unless someone brings me solid arguments that games such as Planescape Torment aren't art, I will stick to my opinion ;). And the guy that wrote that article was seriously misinformed and undocumented. If he had played the best games available out there and still written that article with solid arguments then I might have considered it. The way it is now is pure rubbish and I won't even take it seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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