It used to do more: Sony's flip-flopping PS3 history


Recommended Posts

I like how you added the "already available on other consoles" part as if it lessens the importance of PS3 owners getting the update :laugh:

It lessens the significance of said update. It isn't a new feature in terms of consoles, just one they didn't have yet. It also serves well to see if you can pay attention to my actual point, which you just proved you COULD NOT.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It lessens the significance of said update. It isn't a new feature in terms of consoles, just one they didn't have yet. It also serves well to see if you can pay attention to my actual point, which you just proved you COULD NOT.

Yes PS3 only owners feel they can't get use of the update(s) because they knew the 360 was already able to do "feature x".

You really are one of the worst trolls in this section Emn1ty.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No one is removing Blu Ray playback, don't even get involved in such stupid posts.

Sony also said as recently as the end of last year that they would not be removing OtherOS support either. They lied about that, didn't they. No reason to assume that any other feature is safe if they deem it a "threat".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<snip>

Sony also said as recently as the end of last year that they would not be removing OtherOS support either. They lied about that, didn't they. No reason to assume that any other feature is safe if they deem it a "threat".

I'll travel to your house and clean your toilet with my tongue if Blu Ray playback is removed.... or you can stop making such silly suggestions.

Edited by Nicholas-c
Cleaning the house...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Think about how realistic that is and think about how much you're just fear scaremongering yourself due to all the trash people have posted since Linux was removed.

No one seems to comprehend the difference, Linux is open source, the PS3 OS is not. One can be patched day 0 by Sony, the other has to have patch requests sent to the Linux distributors. The sooner people realize that the less "omg Blu Ray playback could be taken away!!!111" junk won't continually be posted in here.

MS patched their exploit in NXE didn't they? As I said, game OS, closed, Linux, open source. MS/Sony have complete control over their OS, Sony do not have complete control over other people's OS (Linux). They had partial control of the GPU through the hypervisor, but not full control of the OS (flavour of Linux) you install.

Don't get caught up in the irrational thinking of others, or well do get caught up in it and enjoy car analogies and fear of firmware updates from here on out.

What you don't seem to comprehend, even though I and others have repeatedly told you this, is that the exploit wasn't IN Linux, it was in the hypervisor (something Sony does have control over). It was ACCESSED via Linux, but the flaw itself was not IN Linux. Why is that so hard for you to accept?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People really think that Sony can remove Blu-Ray playback from the PS3? Wow :pinch:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What a train wreck of a topic in here as usual, bashing galore.

Its no different than 90% of the stuff you post in the MS section.

PS3: It only does...some...things. I'm just displeased that they nixed the George Foreman SKU.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What you don't seem to comprehend, even though I and others have repeatedly told you this, is that the exploit wasn't IN Linux, it was in the hypervisor (something Sony does have control over). It was ACCESSED via Linux, but the flaw itself was not IN Linux. Why is that so hard for you to accept?

This is the coveted PS3 exploit, gives full memory space access and therefore ring 0 access from OtherOS. Enjoy your hypervisor dumps. This is known to work with version 2.4.2 only, but I imagine it works on all current versions. Maybe later I'll write up how it works
Right now, I'm playing with the isolated SPEs, trying to get metldr to load from OtherOS. Interesting thing, I am not using the exploit. I always assumed the enable isolation mode register was hypervisor privileged. It's not, it's kernel privileged, which means using hypervisor calls you can all get to it. So, get to hacking. Here is the code I am playing with.
As far as the exploit goes, I'm not revealing it yet. The theory isn't really patchable, but they can make implementations much harder. Also, for obvious reasons I can't post dumps. I'm hoping to find the decryption keys and post them, but they may be embedded in hardware. Hopefully keys are setup like the iPhone's KBAG.

^ The hacker himself commented on the ease of patching his own exploit.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll travel to your house and clean your toilet with my tongue if Blu Ray playback is removed.... or you can stop making such silly suggestions.

It was an example. I also offered media playback as an example, and I guess I could use the web browser or photo gallery as examples as well. Any of those could potentially have a flaw discovered that would allow some type of exploit. Sony has show that they wouldn't think twice about disabling a feature if they think it could be used as an exploit vector.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, if you are for a company being able to remove key advertised features 1 by 1 on a system, go ahead and buy it.... but not complaining about such a thing only allows said company to continue on the road they started....

There is plenty of valid excuses coming from the people on here who dislike what sony is doing. But Audio, why such the defense for sony? Are they paying you to put up with this? Just seems like a lot of bullhockey for something that really isn't right. I don't own any console, as I find a computer to be a much better option, which leaves me free to play and do how I please, but if I owned a ps3, I would be rightfully allowed to be mad if they started nixing off options one by one.

Lets not try and put sony in the lime light too much, we need to remember the rootkit evils and other things they have done to customers before, all in the name of "piracy".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was an example. I also offered media playback as an example, and I guess I could use the web browser or photo gallery as examples as well. Any of those could potentially have a flaw discovered that would allow some type of exploit. Sony has show that they wouldn't think twice about disabling a feature if they think it could be used as an exploit vector.

Or, they patch their own OS which is very easy to do, something which MS have already done with exploits.

I really can't believe how incredibly inane some people act in this GH, it's almost offensive.

Well, if you are for a company being able to remove key advertised features 1 by 1 on a system, go ahead and buy it.... but not complaining about such a thing only allows said company to continue on the road they started....

There is plenty of valid excuses coming from the people on here who dislike what sony is doing. But Audio, why such the defense for sony? Are they paying you to put up with this? Just seems like a lot of bullhockey for something that really isn't right. I don't own any console, as I find a computer to be a much better option, which leaves me free to play and do how I please, but if I owned a ps3, I would be rightfully allowed to be mad if they started nixing off options one by one.

Lets not try and put sony in the lime light too much, we need to remember the rootkit evils and other things they have done to customers before, all in the name of "piracy".

More like defence for common sense, as KoL said we actually have people in here discussing the removal of Blu Ray play back and others stating what's removed is far more important than what Sony have added.

I guess my problem is I'm so jaded with the complete scum constantly posting garbage in the GH instead of contributing worthwhile news/topics and other things. Unfortunately a lot of them seem to hang around this section while having little interest in anything Sony related, even the staff said the Sony section is the problematic one when introducing the new rules.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^ The hacker himself commented on the ease of patching his own exploit.....

Yes, and he said exactly what I was saying. There is a flaw in the hypervisor that allows certain calls to be made that allow for Ring0 access. Sony wrote the hypervisor, and it is part of the firmware. They could patch it (just as he said) to make things much more difficult for his exploit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, and he said exactly what I was saying. There is a flaw in the hypervisor that allows certain calls to be made that allow for Ring0 access. Sony wrote the hypervisor, and it is part of the firmware. They could patch it (just as he said) to make things much more difficult for his exploit.

No, he said it isn't really patchable. Not "they could patch it", I don't know where you read that from. Making implementations harder does not = patching or fixing an exploit, so if it can't be patched to fix it, options afterwards include.... removing OtherOS to protect the security of the console!

Why protect security? So developers don't lose out to piracy.... do developers use Linux for PS3 games? No, however why don't we remove Blu Ray playback so they can't sell games at all!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes PS3 only owners feel they can't get use of the update(s) because they knew the 360 was already able to do "feature x".

You really are one of the worst trolls in this section Emn1ty.

But look at all those other features it had first. I was impressed with many of the things on that list. It isn't like I lied, did I? Facts are facts, you merely interpret them to make you seem more right and me seem more wrong. This is why I can't stand arguing with you. You are biased to the freaking core. No matter what I say it ends up being bashing, flaiming or biased in your eyes. Even if it is a summarized list of something you posted. Please stop flaim bating me and get back to discussion for christ sake.

No, he said it isn't really patchable.

"The theory isn't really patchable, but they can make implementations much harder."

Your own quote, and it doesn't deny what he just said. Again, reading only what you want to read.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But look at all those other features it had first. I was impressed with many of the things on that list. It isn't like I lied, did I? Facts are facts, you merely interpret them to make you seem more right and me seem more wrong. This is why I can't stand arguing with you. You are biased to the freaking core. No matter what I say it ends up being bashing, flaiming or biased in your eyes. Even if it is a summarized list of something you posted. Please stop flaim bating me and get back to discussion for christ sake.

I posted a list of PS3 firmware updates, not a comparison to the Xbox 360. That's something you had to add when discussing what I had posted, and I'm the one going off topic in the PS3 section posting PS3 updates?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, however why don't we remove Blu Ray playback so they can't sell games at all!

Again, Blu-Ray movie playback has nothing at all to do with games on the PS3 other than the fact that they both use the same media. It's entirely possible to have the ability to READ a Blu-Ray disc, but not playback Blu-Ray movies (perfect example of that is OS X).

As for your other comments, it's pretty clear that you don't understand that geohot's exploit wasn't simply a matter of software, it also required very skilled soldering and adding an extra switch to the motherboard that had to be pressed at just the right time. Even then he STILL didn't have the ability to run a pirated game. It simply isn't something that any average user was going to be able to do for the forseeable future (we aren't simply talking about softmodding like on a Wii). In his description of the process (that you linked to), he even stated that the hypervisor shouldn't allow the calls he is using.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again, Blu-Ray movie playback has nothing at all to do with games on the PS3 other than the fact that they both use the same media.

As for your other comments, it's pretty clear that you don't understand that geohot's exploit wasn't simply a matter of software, it also required very skilled soldering and adding an extra switch to the motherboard that had to be pressed at just the right time. Even then he STILL didn't have the ability to run a pirated game. It simply isn't something that any average user was going to be able to do for the forseeable future (we aren't simply talking about softmodding like on a Wii). In his description of the process (that you linked to), he even stated that the hypervisor shouldn't allow the calls he is using.

whistle.gif

This can be installed without having to open up your PS3, just by restoring a custom generated PUP file, but only from 3.15 or previous.

http://geohotps3.blo...d-on-321oo.html

Oh so it's just Blu Ray movies that are going to produce exploits now, not the games? Quite a fitting argument to make now that you've realized removal of "Blu Ray playback" would stop games working.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People really think that Sony can remove Blu-Ray playback from the PS3? Wow :pinch:

why couldn't they? they technically could. it's just software that plays the movies... would they? doubtful, but i would never put anything by sony. They only infected thousands upon thousands of computers with a rootkit (which was damn near impossible to remove)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I posted a list of PS3 firmware updates, not a comparison to the Xbox 360. That's something you had to add when discussing what I had posted, and I'm the one going off topic in the PS3 section posting PS3 updates?

Read my entire post and find 360 anywhere in them. Please, by all means.

The point was to separate what was PS3 exclusive changes. To point out what as actually unique changes for the PS3. If that is a problem, then I'm sorry. YOU are the one who turned that organization into a PS3 vs. 360 argument. So yes, YOU are off-topic. Now how about we rectify that hm...?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[Thread re-opened]

Cleaned and re-opened. First sign of trouble and it will be closed again. Go.

Edited by Nicholas-c
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am positive the exploit was patchable, highly doubt that it would not be patchable. Lets take the PSP for example, they did not remove features from the PSP just because it got exploited etc, they patched the exploits. Just because the hacker said it was not patchable does not mean it isnt. I get the feeling OtherOS was removed to get rid of the issue if the problem was patched a new problem would not surface in future. People can compare it to the xbox360 or live but we are not talking about that we're talking about the PS3. They should constantly add things on major updates not take them off, 3D support at the cost of OtherOS isnt exactly great considering majority of the PS3 owners will not have a 3DTV yet.

The suggestions of the Blu-Ray support being removed if an exploit was found is ludacris, after pushing blu-ray so hard against hd-dvd and making it "sort of" the norm they would be shooting themselves in the foot. They would do thier utmost to get it fixed before and even if they could not they would probably not remove it at all and just leave it, prevent people from playing blu-ray games/moves is big, its the main thing about the PS3 can not see it happening at all.

Im positive under the Sales of Goods act 1979 if any major changes were made to the console via a firmware update them Sony (or the seller) would get shafted. From my understanding there is a clause about the item being as described...

When you go shopping anything you buy is covered by a law called the Sale of Goods Act 1979. This means that when you buy a product it should be:

* as described

* fit for purpose

* of satisfactory quality

As described

This means that the item you buy should be the same as any description of it. A description could be what the seller has said to you about the item or something written in a brochure.

This probably would not go back to sony directly as:

This legislation also states that the seller, not the manufacturer, is legally obliged to sort out a problem if the goods do not meet these requirements.

So i guess a lot of sellers would be pretty angry with Sony.

I personaly could not care more about the OtherOS, I know a hand full of people who use it because of its coolness, not sure what they see in it, I purchased mine for blu-ray moves and half decent exclusive game (or games which are proven to be better in terms of visual appearence and performance than thier xbox360 counterparts). At the end of the day an option should have been given to remove it or keep it in the update. If sony loose the law suits I sure hope they learn thier lesson.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One thing that has bothered me, does software BC require no extra hardware correct? if it doesnt then why not include it other then to push ps3 sales?

In the EU we only had the software option and I know it was not perfect but I would have used it.

As for OtherOS I used it and I hate the fact they removed it. I am a customer and all who say my opinion/usage is worthless etc since YOU didnt use it please realise OTHERS did! (points at Audioboxer aka Jack Tretton)

I hate the way how AB trashes everyone elses opinions and states its all a "non issue" and we, paying customers are just speaking junk. You sir are the real Troll/Tretton!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.