LiquidSolstice Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Super Mario Galaxy 2, as with most Mario games before it, is a game that Nintendo clearly intends for children to play. In a recent interview, though, series mastermind Shigeru Miyamoto revealed his fear that sometimes things get a little too kid-centric in the Mario games. Speaking with his boss, Nintendo president Saturo Iwata, as part of Nintendo's Iwata Asks series, Miyamoto discussed some of the struggles the team had figuring out how much or how little story to include in the Super Mario Galaxy games. From the interview: "Unless you're careful, there's a tendency for games like Mario that can be played by children to gradually become childish. Those making the game tend to unconsciously make them that way. Taking how Mario's line can be scripted as an example, they even propose to write, 'Where'd my mommy go?' When someone in their fifties like me hears their player-character speak childishly like that, it doesn't quite sit right. After all, Mario wasn't a game only for children in the first place. As I make a game, I try to keep in mind that guys in their fifties will play it, too." What do you think? Do you ever feel weirded out by the more childish aspects of Mario, or do you think Nintendo has done a good job of hitting a balance recently? Source Don't get me wrong. I loved Mario as a kid and still do. BUt no, I don't think for one moment that there is ANY sort of balance between kids and adults in Mario. It's all completely and 100% aimed at kids, regardless of what good ol' Miyamoto would like to think. Nothing wrong with that, but I would be pretty disappointed if Miyamoto attempts to make Mario something it's not; mature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solid Knight Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 Source Don't get me wrong. I loved Mario as a kid and still do. BUt no, I don't think for one moment that there is ANY sort of balance between kids and adults in Mario. It's all completely and 100% aimed at kids, regardless of what good ol' Miyamoto would like to think. Nothing wrong with that, but I would be pretty disappointed if Miyamoto attempts to make Mario something it's not; mature. I think you missed the point. You can aim things at kids without them being too childish. Look at Pixar movies as an example; they are aimed at kids while simultaneously appealing to adults. jerzdawg 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiquidSolstice Posted May 24, 2010 Author Share Posted May 24, 2010 I think you missed the point. You can aim things at kids without them being too childish. Look at Pixar movies as an example; they are aimed at kids while simultaneously appealing to adults. There are no adult references in Mario games like there are in Pixar movies. If there are, they're quite obscure, not rampantly visible like in Shrek. Your logic doesn't work in that scenario. Pixar movies are purposefully intended to hit both age groups. Mario never managed to do that. (Regardless, it attracted both age groups, but the game itself never catered specifically to adults, and that's the point) Off topic, congrats on the 2000th post :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasethebase Reporter Posted May 24, 2010 Reporter Share Posted May 24, 2010 Wrong subforum lol. But it makes sense, and Nintendo's games have constantly had this used as some sort of flamebait by fanboys, which in my eyes is entirely untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiquidSolstice Posted May 24, 2010 Author Share Posted May 24, 2010 Wrong subforum lol. But it makes sense, and Nintendo's games have constantly had this used as some sort of flamebait by fanboys, which in my eyes is entirely untrue. Actually, I put it in here because I felt putting it in the Nintendo section would be sheer trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmatic Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 Source Don't get me wrong. I loved Mario as a kid and still do. BUt no, I don't think for one moment that there is ANY sort of balance between kids and adults in Mario. It's all completely and 100% aimed at kids, regardless of what good ol' Miyamoto would like to think. Nothing wrong with that, but I would be pretty disappointed if Miyamoto attempts to make Mario something it's not; mature. mature and kid-friendly arent mutually exclusive... the most obvious example would be The Simpsons , kids love it because its a cartoon and adults love it because they understand the humour of course this is not directly analogous, just like Pixar movies are also not directly analogous to Mario games... but Mario has always been about game mechanics over presentation... the graphics are never better than they need to be, there is usually hardly any storyline/dialogue/background etc, while the gameplay has set standards for both 2d and 3d platforming... the way i see it, the kids are drawn in by the fancy colours etc and their learning ability lets them get through the game... adults are into it for the exotic and abstract challenges which the game provides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiquidSolstice Posted May 24, 2010 Author Share Posted May 24, 2010 mature and kid-friendly arent mutually exclusive... the most obvious example would be The Simpsons , kids love it because its a cartoon and adults love it because they understand the humour And again, I completely agree with that and the Pixar/Shrek concept, the thing is, those are deliberately aimed at both age groups, where Mario has never quite done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solid Knight Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 There are no adult references in Mario games like there are in Pixar movies. If there are, they're quite obscure, not rampantly visible like in Shrek. Your logic doesn't work in that scenario. Pixar movies are purposefully intended to hit both age groups. Mario never managed to do that. (Regardless, it attracted both age groups, but the game itself never catered specifically to adults, and that's the point) I think he's more worried about the game getting to Dora the Explorer level of childishness than making references to adult subjects. In that respect, he doesn't want to make the game so childish that the adults stop playing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiquidSolstice Posted May 24, 2010 Author Share Posted May 24, 2010 I think he's more worried about the game getting to Dora the Explorer level of childishness than making references to adult subjects. In that respect, he doesn't want to make the game so childish that the adults stop playing it. I suppose in that sense you do have a point. However, I'm going to safely assume that the game mechanics involved in playing the Mario games will always be far too high for them to be related to that level. I mean, there's physics, puzzles, and plenty of reflex-based action to work out in all the Mario games, and for what it's worth, that mixture is classic. Charisma 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmatic Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 I suppose in that sense you do have a point. However, I'm going to safely assume that the game mechanics involved in playing the Mario games will always be far too high for them to be related to that level. I mean, there's physics, puzzles, and plenty of reflex-based action to work out in all the Mario games, and for what it's worth, that mixture is classic. as long as they keep the formula of the Mario games as simple as it has always been, i dont see how being too childish can be a problem... ?if there is going to be too much 'childishness', it would have had to be added in and break the Mario games as we know them...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootWind Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 There are no adult references in Mario games like there are in Pixar movies. If there are, they're quite obscure, not rampantly visible like in Shrek. Your logic doesn't work in that scenario. Shrek is not a Pixar movie. There's a pretty stark contrast between the adult references in a DreamWorks (Shrek) movie vs. a Pixar movie (Up). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeza Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 I suppose in that sense you do have a point. However, I'm going to safely assume that the game mechanics involved in playing the Mario games will always be far too high for them to be related to that level. I mean, there's physics, puzzles, and plenty of reflex-based action to work out in all the Mario games, and for what it's worth, that mixture is classic. perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiquidSolstice Posted May 24, 2010 Author Share Posted May 24, 2010 Shrek is not a Pixar movie. There's a pretty stark contrast between the adult references in a DreamWorks (Shrek) movie vs. a Pixar movie. I never said Shrek was a Pixar movie, I'm including them both in that category, because I don't know when the last time you saw the Toy Story movies, but there are plenty of adult references in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solid Knight Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 I suppose in that sense you do have a point. However, I'm going to safely assume that the game mechanics involved in playing the Mario games will always be far too high for them to be related to that level. I mean, there's physics, puzzles, and plenty of reflex-based action to work out in all the Mario games, and for what it's worth, that mixture is classic. That is true. The mechanics alone make the game inaccessible to young children. However, the presentation, story, and dialog can still affect the appeal to older gamers. If the game gets perceived as being too childish he'll end up narrowing the demographic too much. Don't get me wrong though, the game will always be considered childish (unless he does something drastic) but it is still smart of him to avoid making the game appear too childish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jamesyfx Subscriber² Posted May 24, 2010 Subscriber² Share Posted May 24, 2010 They need to make use of a different series if they want to appeal to adults. Metroid would be a good one to shoot for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiquidSolstice Posted May 24, 2010 Author Share Posted May 24, 2010 That is true. The mechanics alone make the game inaccessible to young children. However, the presentation, story, and dialog can still affect the appeal to older gamers. If the game gets perceived as being too childish he'll end up narrowing the demographic too much. Don't get me wrong though, the game will always be considered childish (unless he does something drastic) but it is still smart of him to avoid making the game appear too childish. Huh? To be honest, I think the game mechanics attract children more than anything else. It's all quite intuitive, really.(Not being sarcastic, I'm being serious) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmatic Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 That is true. The mechanics alone make the game inaccessible to young children. never ever underestimate children... just because you are too old to learn a new game mechanic, doesnt mean that children will never learn it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solid Knight Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 Huh? To be honest, I think the game mechanics attract children more than anything else. It's all quite intuitive, really.(Not being sarcastic, I'm being serious) In my experience Galaxy has been too difficult for children as they have difficulty maneuvering around planetoids. Walking around a sphere and dealing with gravity (sling-shotting) seems to be a bit beyond them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiquidSolstice Posted May 24, 2010 Author Share Posted May 24, 2010 In my experience Galaxy has been too difficult for children as they have difficulty maneuvering around planetoids. Walking around a sphere and dealing with gravity (sling-shotting) seems to be a bit beyond them. I completely agree with that, but I blame that entirely on the wonky first-time feeling of using the Wii controllor. I don't own own, I've only played it before with a cousin, so I suppose that might have just been me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmatic Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 In my experience Galaxy has been too difficult for children as they have difficulty maneuvering around planetoids. Walking around a sphere and dealing with gravity (sling-shotting) seems to be a bit beyond them. if you give any child a wii and a copy of Mario Galaxy and they've never played it before, you cant expect them to excel at it instantly... there is still a learning process involved, it is just that this learning process is much more likely in children than in adults Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solid Knight Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 never ever underestimate children... just because you are too old to learn a new game mechanic, doesnt mean that children will never learn it... Taking a shot in the dark? What age group of children are you referring to? I said young children (4-8). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seta-san Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 maybe somethign like these http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_GLca7ocC8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va8Sh4Agr58&feature=related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slammers Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 I completely agree with that, but I blame that entirely on the wonky first-time feeling of using the Wii controllor. I don't own own, I've only played it before with a cousin, so I suppose that might have just been me. I don't agree with you and I think you've taken the article the wrong way. I think the writing in Mario is far from childish, they put so many little things in it that make me laugh that kids would not understand. So many little references to gaming cliche's etc. I think the latest two mario games SMG2 and NSMB are aimed mostly at teenagers and adults, there's no way kids could get through the entirety of them their just too hard. Just because a game uses bright colors, cute characters and has no real story doesn't mean it's childish. They just streamline the experience to make it as fun and accessible as possible. I also think that's untrue about the wii controller. Anyone that's used a mouse can pretty much naturally use the same skills for pointing the wii remote. Also SMG (and most other Mario games on wii) are almost played exclusively without having to use any pointing. Apart from the sling shotting, walking around a sphere and making sense of gravity is all done with the joystick which makes it no different to any ps3 or xbox game. Also why is this in the microsoft forum section? You say it would be trolling in the nintendo section, it's just an article about something a nintendo rep has said. How's that trolling it blatantly belongs there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiquidSolstice Posted May 24, 2010 Author Share Posted May 24, 2010 I don't agree with you and I think you've taken the article the wrong way. I think the writing in Mario is far from childish, they put so many little things in it that make me laugh that kids would not understand. So many little references to gaming cliche's etc. I think the latest two mario games SMG2 and NSMB are aimed mostly at teenagers and adults, there's no way kids could get through the entirety of them their just too hard. Just because a game uses bright colors, cute characters and has no real story doesn't mean it's childish. They just streamline the experience to make it as fun and accessible as possible. I also think that's untrue about the wii controller. Anyone that's used a mouse can pretty much naturally use the same skills for pointing the wii remote. Also SMG (and most other Mario games on wii) are almost played exclusively without having to use any pointing. Apart from the sling shotting, walking around a sphere and making sense of gravity is all done with the joystick which makes it no different to any ps3 or xbox game. Also why is this in the microsoft forum section? You say it would be trolling in the nintendo section, it's just an article about something a nintendo rep has said. How's that trolling it blatantly belongs there. Calm down, holy crap. I'm pretty sure I said "wonky first-time feeling of using the Wii controllor. I don't own one, I've only played it before with a cousin, so I suppose that might have just been me." If you like the controls or think they're good, that's fantastic for you. This is in the Microsoft section because I visit it far more frequently owing to the fact I own a 360, and also because it's my OPINION underneath the article that I would consider trolling if I drop it in the Nintendo section. Last time I made a thread that mildly touched on the fact that the Wii is not in the same market audience as the PS3 and 360 are (but I made it incredibly clear that I respect the console that it was not bad in any way) I got flamed to hell and back by a bunch of insecure defensive Wii fanboys who saw it as nothing more than "omg he's insulting the Wii". Imagine what this thread would do, if all it took for that was a small reference? I've never considered any Mario game to be "mature", and not mature in the sense of the 17+ game rating, I mean mature as in not a 'everything's oh so damn happy and bubbly' theme for every single game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis W. Veteran Posted May 24, 2010 Veteran Share Posted May 24, 2010 Definitely does not belong in the Microsoft section, so it'll go into the neutral zone. Moved here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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