1337ish Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 The simple fact is RTS + move is still a fail no matter how precise it is. Most RTS games I play have battles that can take an hour and a half to play out (because they are good) and thats before we go online with it. Can you imagine waving that stick about for that long with accuracy without having pain?!?!? A mouse wins due to it being rested on the mat and you can rest your arms, any waving about will be a grind to play out that long with accuracy. Anyone for wii tennis for an hour and a half straight? I think not.... they just added it *because* not because they should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted July 15, 2010 Author Subscriber² Share Posted July 15, 2010 OK... but say it changes to green in front of your green shirt and then you move it to select another unit. Will the camera be able to see it in front of your green shirt? Unless your shirt radiates a bright glow I'd think so :p I have no idea what the colour pallette is either, but I assume it just operates on an RGB scale meaning different shades. Things such as a green ball/green clothing would be more of an issue if the ball was staying green 24/7 with a fast paced FPS, not for a few seconds whilst hovering over enemy/friendly troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironman273 Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Unless your shirt radiates a bright glow I'd think so :p I have no idea what the colour pallette is either, but I assume it just operates on an RGB scale meaning different shades. Things such as a green ball/green clothing would be more of an issue if the ball was staying green 24/7 with a fast paced FPS, not for a few seconds whilst hovering over enemy/friendly troops. From what I've seen (videos) the color of the ball seems very matte, not glowy at all. However, I realized that the controller can also use it's gyro to determine motion and "rough out" where it's moving until it changes color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted July 15, 2010 Author Subscriber² Share Posted July 15, 2010 From what I've seen (videos) the color of the ball seems very matte, not glowy at all. However, I realized that the controller can also use it's gyro to determine motion and "rough out" where it's moving until it changes color. https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/920432-playstation-move-bundled-up-in-pictures/page__view__findpost__p__592906838 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedon Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Just to follow up on your thread assumptions, from the above preview That too was debunked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted July 15, 2010 Author Subscriber² Share Posted July 15, 2010 That too was debunked. What, the developers were debunked on their own game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedon Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 What, the developers were debunked on their own game? Yup My link RUSE Dev Explains Kinect Snub R.U.S.E. developer Eugen Systems has revealed it has no plans to implement Kinect compatibility into the Xbox 360 version of the game, and why it has opted for PlayStation Move support instead.In a NowGamer interview, senior producer at developer Eugen Systems Mathiew Girard revealed that the decision was not based on any technical limitations of Kinect, but rather that the game simply didn't fit the format. "A Kinect version is not in the works right now." said Girard, "Kinect is more for interfaces where you are standing and making more immersive gestures, but in R.U.S.E. you are playing a general commanding armies. It's not as if a main character is appearing on your screen. It made more sense to look to the Move controller than Kinect." "I have to say that Move is very efficient" Girard also explains the team's experience of PlayStation Move control in R.U.S.E. "We also developed R.U.S.E. for multi-touch interfaces on PC, and when we discovered that PlayStation Move was coming, we were intrigued. I have to say that Move is very efficient, allowing you to play on your couch comfortably, using small gestures and point directly at units." So there you have it. Move suits R.U.S.E better, but what do your friendly neighbourhood NowGamer team think of it? Check out our first PlayStation Move impressions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted July 15, 2010 Author Subscriber² Share Posted July 15, 2010 "Kinect is more for interfaces where you are standing and making more immersive gestures" Basically says the same thing, which goes back to MS' whole seated experiences work for "games created based around sitting down". However I'm a bit confused as to how an RTS can't be played sitting down, besides the need for complexity and accuracy through the controls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedon Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Actually it's not the same thing. He just pointed out that Kinect has been shown as an active game accessory. However, there are no technical limitations (ie sitting, which MS has already stated that you can sit). They debunked themselves, and were debunked by MS many times. Derr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted July 15, 2010 Author Subscriber² Share Posted July 15, 2010 Actually it's not the same thing. He just pointed out that Kinect has been shown as an active game accessory. However, there are no technical limitations (ie sitting, which MS has already stated that you can sit). They debunked themselves, and were debunked by MS many times. No one is saying you can't sit down with Kinect full stop, the developers are saying they could not create, or it wasn't worth the effort trying to get Kinect working with RUSE sitting down. Earlier on in the topic you assumed it was because they didn't have Kinect dev kits in time, so I corrected you. Re-read my initial quote from the devs, and then yours, they both say the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedon Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 No one is saying you can't sit down with Kinect full stop, the developers are saying they could not create, or it wasn't worth the effort trying to get Kinect working with RUSE sitting down. Earlier on in the topic you assumed it was because they didn't have Kinect dev kits in time, so I corrected you. Re-read my initial quote from the devs, and then yours, they both say the same thing. Others, such as EA have stated (as I posted above..re correcting you) that they did NOT receive their kits on time. So again, it could be that RUSE didn't have enough time with their kits to develop. It's quite possible that they will figure out more the next time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted July 15, 2010 Author Subscriber² Share Posted July 15, 2010 Others, such as EA have stated (as I posted above..re correcting you) that they did NOT receive their kits on time. So again, it could be that RUSE didn't have enough time with their kits to develop. Do you have the ability to read? We asked Girard if Kinect support would be coming to the game, but sadly, it looks like Xbox 360 users will have to make do with the standard pad. He told us that it had been looked into, but given the issues Kinect has with players sitting down, it would be too tiring for them to stand up for the long periods of time matches can take. senior producer at developer Eugen Systems Mathiew Girard revealed that the decision was not based on any technical limitations of Kinect, but rather that the game simply didn't fit the format. Neither have anything to do with not having enough time to develop, they chose not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedon Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Do you have the ability to read? Neither have anything to do with not having enough time to develop, they chose not to. Sounds good Audioboxer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayepecks Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 I would never play an RTS or any sort of similar strategy game with a motion controller. No way in freaking hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedon Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 I would never play an RTS or any sort of similar strategy game with a motion controller. No way in freaking hell. Not sure if I would or not. I might at least try it to see what it's like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George P Global Moderator Posted July 15, 2010 Global Moderator Share Posted July 15, 2010 I'd play a RTS on a Surface, that's about as far as I'd take it though. I'm not a big fan of RTS games. TRPGs a bit though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayepecks Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 I'd play a RTS on a Surface, that's about as far as I'd take it though. I'm not a big fan of RTS games. TRPGs a bit though. Surface and touch screens are fine. Motion control? That's far worse than a controller (and obviously miles from mouse and keyboard). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted July 15, 2010 Author Subscriber² Share Posted July 15, 2010 Surface and touch screens are fine. Motion control? That's far worse than a controller (and obviously miles from mouse and keyboard). For RTS? It's a flick of the wrist if even that. Someone clearly hasn't realised nearly every Wii game can be played with your arse on the couch and only your wrist moving. All the waving around stuff is sensationalised, especially when it comes to something like an RTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayepecks Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 For RTS? It's a flick of the wrist if even that. Someone clearly hasn't realised nearly every Wii game can be played with your arse on the couch and only your wrist moving. All the waving around stuff is sensationalised, especially when it comes to something like an RTS. Are you kidding me? You would honestly control an RTS game through motion control rather than an actual controller? OK, tell you what: when R.U.S.E. comes out, you go play with your PS Move, then play it with a controller and tell me what your honest opinion on which is better is. Motion control is fine for games where you don't have to be all that precise or when it's just general movements and motions, but an RTS game? No. Plain and simple. No. If your argument is that you can sit on the couch, sure. But I can sit in my chair/couch with a mouse and keyboard/controller, and I guarantee it will be better for making those precise movements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted July 15, 2010 Author Subscriber² Share Posted July 15, 2010 Are you kidding me? You would honestly control an RTS game through motion control rather than an actual controller? OK, tell you what: when R.U.S.E. comes out, you go play with your PS Move, then play it with a controller and tell me what your honest opinion on which is better is. Motion control is fine for games where you don't have to be all that precise or when it's just general movements and motions, but an RTS game? No. Plain and simple. No. If your argument is that you can sit on the couch, sure. But I can sit in my chair/couch with a mouse and keyboard/controller, and I guarantee it will be better for making those precise movements. The whole point of Move is to be pinpoint precise, so if it is and they actually add standard RTS toolbars (no more push R1 then L1, then rotate the analog 60 times to reach a menu) I'm assuming I probably will enjoy the experience. As long as there is some weight to the cursor movement and it doesn't fly around the screen. Drawing a circle and moving around free-form with an analog stick will take longer than 1:1 movement with the Move controller IMO, it's just how comfortable it works out long term (hours of play). RTS/MMO games are two of the most anticipated genres I have for this, considering no devs seem to care about the PS3 having kb/m support it's the only way I can see complex games/complex interfaces not needing to be dumbed down as much for a standard controller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayepecks Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 The whole point of Move is to be pinpoint precise, so if it is and they actually add standard RTS toolbars (no more push R1 then L1, then rotate the analog 60 times to reach a menu) I'm assuming I probably will enjoy the experience. As long as there is some weight to the cursor movement and it doesn't fly around the screen. Drawing a circle and moving around free-form with an analog stick will take longer than 1:1 movement with the Move controller IMO, it's just how comfortable it works out long term (hours of play). RTS/MMO games are two of the most anticipated genres I have for this, considering no devs seem to care about the PS3 having kb/m support it's the only way I can see complex games/complex interfaces not needing to be dumbed down as much for a standard controller. Have you played any recent console RTS games? They all have better menu systems than what you speak of (for example, the Command & Conquer games and Lord of the Rings games). Motion controllers will never be pinpoint precise; they will get close, but they will never be as precise as a controller or a mouse and keyboard. You seem to think they're going to be as precise as a controller for some reason, which I honestly don't understand. That is, technically speaking, impossible. The lag can be minimized, but it will not be as precise. Have you played a Wii? Navigated its menus? I think it's a wonderful invention, and I think that Kinect and Move have a place, but that place is not for RTS games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted July 15, 2010 Author Subscriber² Share Posted July 15, 2010 Have you played any recent console RTS games? They all have better menu systems than what you speak of (for example, the Command & Conquer games and Lord of the Rings games). Motion controllers will never be pinpoint precise; they will get close, but they will never be as precise as a controller or a mouse and keyboard. You seem to think they're going to be as precise as a controller for some reason, which I honestly don't understand. That is, technically speaking, impossible. The lag can be minimized, but it will not be as precise. Have you played a Wii? Navigated its menus? I think it's a wonderful invention, and I think that Kinect and Move have a place, but that place is not for RTS games. I own a Wii, and the jitter and instability at times is horrible. Hence why PS Move is tracked in a much more accurate way. Each to their own, but I enjoy playing my RTS games with a mouse, and if this can somehow mimic a mouse better than a controller then maybe I'll finally take RTS games on consoles more seriously. It won't be long before we get RUSE footage with Move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironman273 Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 I own a Wii, and the jitter and instability at times is horrible. Hence why PS Move is tracked in a much more accurate way. Each to their own, but I enjoy playing my RTS games with a mouse, and if this can somehow mimic a mouse better than a controller then maybe I'll finally take RTS games on consoles more seriously. It won't be long before we get RUSE footage with Move. But isn't the jitter and instability present because of the preciseness? The demo that you linked before showed the guy drawing circles around his units (which he had to start more than once) and the circle looked pretty jittery. What I mean is that holding your arm out, holding a controller, maybe towards the end of a game, your arm probably starts shaking a little and if the control is so precise it'll translate that onto the screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted July 16, 2010 Author Subscriber² Share Posted July 16, 2010 But isn't the jitter and instability present because of the preciseness? The demo that you linked before showed the guy drawing circles around his units (which he had to start more than once) and the circle looked pretty jittery. What I mean is that holding your arm out, holding a controller, maybe towards the end of a game, your arm probably starts shaking a little and if the control is so precise it'll translate that onto the screen. The extent of the jitter on the Wii is down to the way it tracks, just two infrared lights. Heck people have used candles with a Wiimote. It's not that advanced at all. I don't foresee myself holding out my arm, all the PS Eye needs to see is where the large glowing orb is, essentially why the tech was built on a large glowing ball, it's not exactly hard to find in an everyday environment and the size of it from the camera helps project distance. I hope I should be playing sitting on the couch with my right hand resting on my thigh and just my wrist moving around. The looks of this can be compared to the Wii as much as people want, but the tech is far from the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pupik Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 Ubisoft confirms PS Move support for R.U.S.E., no Kinect intergration Makes sense, because the first trailer of the game just screamed for interaction using a vibrator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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