TemperingPick Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 I'm tired of hearing this. Why do people think this and what is your opinion on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Buio Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 My opinion is that for anything else than video or webgames, Flash sucks. I loathe almost every flash-based site there is out there. They are slow, does not conform to normal surf-standards, and are very often badly designed (seems flash takes out the worst in webdesigners). So if HTML5 is able to take over the video part of what Flash is good at, I'd be happy to uninstall it (I don't play webgames). I'm a user though, so I can't comment on "behind the scenes" what is best. Vice 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Unknown_97784568745 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 No, i said nothing even close to that for someone to assume thats what i meant. This sure seem to indicate otherwise: Html5 just makes it easier to display videos without needing a plugin, but for the rest that flash does, you cant really do in html5, so there's really no point Vice and Cupcakes 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Motoko. Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 i hope that he gives me death, because i dont want to live in his world. He's creating an ecosystem where most of the revenue will be going to him and Apple Regardless if it benefits him the real question is will you use what benefits you or stay way from Apple? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Hell-In-A-Handbasket Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Sadly flash isn't going anywhere There is to much money tied up in the flash programs and flash programmers/employees that can do flash They are not just going to throw that money away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Subject Delta Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Until the browser vendors agree universally on a codec to be used with HTML5, flash will continue to reign supreme for the simple reason that the cost involved of serving your content in 3 or 4 different video formats will be to prohibitive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Aaron Olive Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Developers just like to hate on Flash because most of them don't know how to use it. And they are very mistakenly thinking that all the truly special things you can do in Flash with enough proficiency will not need the same level of proficiency in HTML5. If you want a jaw dropping website then you need good programming in addition to good design, simple as that. Even if you can do more with HTML5 without being a programmer, by the time it settles in those features will be as bland as a marquee is now. i don't think so, flash is very easy to use that's why most developers use it instead of other alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ambroos Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 There just are more possibilities with Flash. And at this moment nearly everyone has Flash, while more than half doesn't even have a browser that can display basic HTML5. That's why Flash will stay and HTML5 will remain a niche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Unknown_97784568745 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 I could care less what you think i meant. Im glad you feel you know more than me about html5. Good luck with that knowledge in life. Now drop it. K thanks.Thanks for being so defensive. Good luck with that attitude in life. Vice and Cupcakes 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 ~Matt~ Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 All the applefanboys (and girls) think that HTML5 is going to kill flash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 argonite Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 I suspect a whole bunch of web developers got angry that Adobe didn't optimize their rendering engine and the IDE was too expensive. They declared Flash to be dying and threw its features into the HTML 5 functional spec. In the real world, nobody cares. If HTML 5 replaced Flash transparently on a user's site, they wouldn't care. I don't even think most users know that Flash hogs CPU, because they don't super-multitask like some of us do. Flash just works for most people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 The_Decryptor Veteran Posted July 10, 2010 Veteran Share Posted July 10, 2010 Quick question, what do people think HTML5 actually is? People seem to focus on one section out of a massive multi-page document and declare that's all there is to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 argonite Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 Quick question, what do people think HTML5 actually is? People seem to focus on one section out of a massive multi-page document and declare that's all there is to it. Lots of combined-function tags, some more mutual exclusion between HTML and CSS, DOM, databases, drag and drop, etc... And canvas, video and audio, which is what everyone (and by everyone, I mean not the average joe) is focusing on. To be honest, the focus on the canvas and video elements is more proof that web developers just hate Flash (for personal reasons, sometimes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Vice Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 It's pretty simple why HTML5 will win in the end. I said it at the start, openness but I think a few in this thread don't quite understand what that means. So I just want to eloberate. Flash as we all know is developed by Adobe. They make the standard, they alone have the final say on what goes in to Flash. There is no outside oversight here. They can ask developers what they want and they can decide to add requested features to the platform but at the end of the day Flash is their sandbox and we are all just playing in it. Keeping the above in mind, how is Flash delivered? Through a browser plugin. This takes the control of Flash out of the developers hands. This is contrary to everything else in the browser. CSS, Javascript and all the other web technologies from image rendering to text formatting is handled by the browser. This is so important for a healthy web because with each successive browser version the performance of each part of the browser can be highly tuned. Just look at the huge gains in Javascript performance in the past 12 months. On some browsers the performance has increased 10 fold. These types of performance improvements cannot happen with Flash because Adobe deliver the plugins and it performs the same regardless of browser in use. That is not competition and Flash performance still sucks and there is nothing anyone can do about it (except adobe). Now HTML5 being open and allowing browser makers to improve its performance also means hardware producers can improve its performance. Adobe has partnered with some hardware manufacturers to allow GPU's and phone processors to better render Flash. But again this relies on Adobe to keep partnering. Where is hardware acceleration for Flash with Matrox GPUs? How do we know they don't have an exclusivity agreement with NVIDIA & ATI? - Or do they just not care about anyone else? No Niche support, to costly for Adobe maybe. Video. This is something HTML5 needs to work on. There are a few standards in play H.264, Ogg Theora and now WebM. If we don't standardise now we may find HTML5 not taking over Flash in Video. And it really counts in video because Flash is not efficient enough at video and Adobe seemingly don't care. Even when Flash is using h.264 it doesn't compare to VLC, Media Player Classic, Windows Media Player or even Silverlight. Adobe have had years to fix this, they haven't. Many are wondering why companies like Apple and Microsoft are so head strong with h.264 and that is because they have patents in the MPEG LA consortium that h.264 requires to exist. They feel safe but other companies with no such licenses do not. Other reasons are obvious, device battery life. H.264 is a well understood and implemented video codec with hardware support full across the board. Desktop, Notebook, Phone, Portable Music/Video players all usually include Hardware decoding of h.264. These same devices offer no hardware acceleration of Ogg Theora or WebM. In an ideal world all the browsers will support all the codecs and we will be able to specify which codec will be used in the video tag. This may happen, we need to wait and see. Adobe does have some aces up its sleeve to stave off HTML5 encroaching on the most popular use for Flash. Video. Adobe intend to add P2P distribution which will decrease costs of delivering high fidelity video by many orders of magnitude. The video choices being offered by HTML5 are merely point to point (Server to Client) video transfers there is no P2P technology built in. Developers will need to use Java or another supporting language to implement their own P2P system or rely on Adobes and as Adobe will obviously invest heavily in this they will probably win out. In the end I do believe that HTML5 will win in most areas. Website building, where developers would lean on flash for high quality animation and transitional graphics I believe they will instead use HTML standards. It will be easier to edit a page and see the result straight away which is what people like about HTML and other web languages + the performance benefits from the ever evolving implementations of HTML5 in browsers will drive developers to choose HTML over Flash. Video is if you like the linchpin to total HTML5 dominance over Flash. I believe that if the browser producers come together to finalize on a video codec then video using the HTML5 video tag will overtake Flash. It won't be a night and day type deal. I expect the biggest sites like break.com and Youtube to jump first (In-fact Youtube already has done so with their Mobile site as obviously Android and the iPhone both support the latest HTML5 standards with h.264 video) which will take most video traffic on the web off Flash while most of the smaller sites will stick with flash much longer. When Adobe finally release their P2P distribution system we may see some interesting open source projects that try to bridge the technological gap between HTML5 video and what Flash can deliver. And I think purely based on a monetary standpoint video using HTML5 will need a P2P distribution system to compete here at all. It would be stupid not to use P2P based delivery when the cost savings would be so huge. It is hard to find a video site that actually makes a profit because the cost in bandwidth and storage to supply all those videos is so immense. P2P could change all that and HTML5 doesn't have it built in. It's gonna need it. These are my thoughts on it. So to recap, I still think HTML5 will win in the end but it's not going to be a walk in the park and Adobe won't make it easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 nub Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 Some companies don't want openness... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 argonite Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 Some companies don't want openness... Some customers don't even know why it's relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 TechFreak:) Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 Some customers don't even know why it's relevant. Actually most of them don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 tanjiajun_34 Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 Flash is stillf aster. I don't think it will anytime now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 PT 13 Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 It won't happen... I asked :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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TemperingPick
I'm tired of hearing this. Why do people think this and what is your opinion on it?
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