Rep Changes

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Grand Master

DaveLegg Developer

Posted
  • Developer
Posted

There are pitfalls to that though...

As I'm thinking of it now (I've already considered this issue), and note, this may not be the final implementation, the idea could be that the thread starter has 10 points, to allocate amongst the people who helped in the thread as they see fit, and each relevant post gets a link added automatically to the first post.

Grand Master

Singh400

Posted
Posted
As I'm thinking of it now (I've already considered this issue), and note, this may not be the final implementation, the idea could be that the thread starter has 10 points, to allocate amongst the people who helped in the thread as they see fit, and each relevant post gets a link added automatically to the first post.
Right, but how do you make sure those points are given out fairly? Lets say Fred posts a problem (and lets assume Fred is a complete newbie, zero post count etc etc). I then post a solution, but I don't have a rep for solving problems. But then Bob comes along and posts a similar solution, and he has a lot of reputation for solving issues. Fred would then give the points to Bob, purely because of his previous reputation. Now I am not saying this would happen all of the time, but it is likely to happen. And it only needs to happen once or twice for someone to think "well I never get any rep so there is no point in posting".

It is a very tricky system to implement. More so, with ANY system you implement is open to abuse to some degree.

Not to mention I have seen some troubleshooting threads go at least 5 pages long with the help of around 6-10 members are pooling their knowledge to resolve the issue.

You could say perhaps give people the ability to rep a person if they themselves have replied in that thread - so going back to Fred, Bob and me. Fred might have given Bob the +1, but Bob (assuming Bob is fair and nice, and all that) sees that I have given the solution first and gives me +1. But they would only have a certain number of reps available to gift per thread.

Grand Master

Sethos

Posted
Posted

Sorry if this has been covered already, the problem with the old system was a two-parter, too easy to gain rep and the rep points were useless. With this new system, achievement based or whatever is implemented

you solve one of the problems, what about the other? Why should people care about those reputation points? They need some kinda value for a system like that to ever be truly effective - People need an incentive. Like,

with a right amount of points you could buy subscriptions / reduce your warning by 5/10% / gain some 'exclusive' benefits. It doesn't have to be easy to achieve or something big, just a tiny incentive that has an interest for

members.

Perhaps that's just me?

Grand Master

Fred Derf Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted

Some members will never remember/bother to award those points so the staff will likely need to hand out points for abandoned threads. Not that I see a problem with that but I'm pointing that out.

I would encourage members to hand out the points to whomever said it first unless a later post was far more concise or easy to understand. In which case, the OP would hopefully have the option for splitting votes.

Plus, as an overall safeguard, I'd expect that at least some staff would have the ability to redistribute points more fairly (especially if a member complained they were needlessly excluded).

I realize that is a few areas that places staffers in the position to make judgement calls on behalf of others but that is why members were selected to be staff. They do judge what is fair and what is acceptable on a daily basis.

Sorry if this has been covered already, the problem with the old system was a two-parter, too easy to gain rep and the rep points were useless. With this new system, achievement based or whatever is implemented

you solve one of the problems, what about the other? Why should people care about those reputation points? They need some kinda value for a system like that to ever be truly effective - People need an incentive. Like,

with a right amount of points you could buy subscriptions / reduce your warning by 5/10% / gain some 'exclusive' benefits. It doesn't have to be easy to achieve or something big, just a tiny incentive that has an interest for

members.

Perhaps that's just me?

No, I don't think those are bad ideas. It is possible to have a member that causes us unnecessary stress but on the other hand contributes a fair bit of content to certain forums and thus has more value than a pure troublemaker. This would be a way to quantify that relationship. Of course, it would be nice if they would just behave in the first place... :D

Grand Master

Sethos

Posted
Posted

No, I don't think those are bad ideas. It is possible to have a member that causes us unnecessary stress but on the other hand contributes a fair bit of content to certain forums and thus has more value than a pure troublemaker. This would be a way to quantify that relationship. Of course, it would be nice if they would just behave in the first place... :D

Yeah I know what you ... Wait, I see what you did thar' :hmmm: :laugh:

Grand Master

Steven P. Administrators

Posted
  • Administrators
Posted

Wow, some people here arguing for the sake of it me thinks!?

We survived 9 years and 3 months without the rep system :p And I think we give a lot to this community for very little in return, we aren't all rich by any means, we pay writers and even pay freelance fees to developers, we give away stuff all the time, we invest in the site as a priority before anything else is decided (sending people to tech events etc) recently I even saw one person commenting how we were all undeserving of a get together too, jeez most of the guys here put up with these topics every day of the year for no (forum mods), or little return!

We obviously have a road map for Neowin and there are things in the works that are groundbreaking and will change Neowin for the better, it also isn't free, requires planning and a developer process, so all of your "comments" are taken into account. I think our development process since 2000 has shown we mean business and we give quite a bit to sustain this community; we don't still have active members from 2001 for doing nothing.

The rep system that came with IPB3 does not work for us, and by us I say, yes the management, but also there are a lot of members agreeing to this finding as well, they see it can be easily abused and needs further thought to even be useful.

The minority who feel like they have had it "taken away" from them, well thats just tough, you can't please everyone and I'm sure if I did enable it, there would be something else to whine about.

Grand Master

Growled Member

Posted
  • Member
Posted

Right, but how do you make sure those points are given out fairly? Lets say Fred posts a problem (and lets assume Fred is a complete newbie, zero post count etc etc). I then post a solution, but I don't have a rep for solving problems. But then Bob comes along and posts a similar solution, and he has a lot of reputation for solving issues. Fred would then give the points to Bob, purely because of his previous reputation. Now I am not saying this would happen all of the time, but it is likely to happen. And it only needs to happen once or twice for someone to think "well I never get any rep so there is no point in posting".

I would say this is where the mods need to step in and make sure the system is used fairly.

Grand Master

Argote

Posted
Posted

Well, I think Rep points should be given INSIDE a thread but not persist onto the member's profile, that way you can give a shoutout to a post instead of posting the lame old "+1" reply.

In other words the rep is given to a post, not to a member.

Grand Master

Hedon

Posted
Posted

Well, I think Rep points should be given INSIDE a thread but not persist onto the member's profile, that way you can give a shoutout to a post instead of posting the lame old "+1" reply.

In other words the rep is given to a post, not to a member.

+1

Veteran

Fish

Posted
Posted

We survived 9 years and 3 months without the rep system :p

QFT. So why all the concern over it now? So that new members can be assured they're getting the correct advice? There's an implication that the rest of us can't or won't speak up when somebody has offered wrong or poor advice, which simply isn't true. But what about when conflicting views lead to heated debates which slowly drift off topic and eventually into flaming? Well, isn't that what the report button is for? From where I'm sitting, this whole debate reads as though the Neowin staff have very little faith in their community, which is very sad.

Imo the rep/karma/callitwhatyoulike system is completely unnecessary. I see no value in it other than to stoke personal ego's. Just because you can implement an extra rating system doesn't mean you should.

Grand Master

petrossa

Posted
Posted

I would say this is where the mods need to step in and make sure the system is used fairly.

Sure in an ideal world. But in the real world were some mods themselves incite abuse of the system how much trust can we have in the impartiality of mods, present company excepted ofcourse.?

Given the absolute power they have already, why add to it?What does that make better? Total control is total control. Installing whatever gradesystem that is moderated is not representative of the community, but of the mods.

And the mods have already ample methods to steer any thread any which way.

Grand Master

Steven P. Administrators

Posted
  • Administrators
Posted

From where I'm sitting, this whole debate reads as though the Neowin staff have very little faith in their community, which is very sad.

Sorry if you feel that way, but what we've been trying to hammer out in this thread all along is that we have very little faith in the minority that abuse it, which then makes the system completely useless.

Grand Master

Shaun N.

Posted
Posted

I would say this is where the mods need to step in and make sure the system is used fairly.

Surly this is going to give mods more work to do, some are really busy. So busy that when a post is deleted they don't take the time to let the poster know why its been deleted. (not aimed at anyone in particular)

Grand Master

Steven P. Administrators

Posted
  • Administrators
Posted

Surly this is going to give mods more work to do, some are really busy. So busy that when a post is deleted they don't take the time to let the poster know why its been deleted. (not aimed at anyone in particular)

LOL ;) It was restored with a comment.

Grand Master

Panacik

Posted
Posted

Being with Neowin for a long time now, i have seen many shifts in design, moderator attiudes and member attitudes.

This seems to be the problem Neowin has always faced however. You make ANY change on Neowin and you get the side that shout out about how great it is, that they always wanted it and are generally pleased that "their voice was heard". But then you always end up with the people who are against it, cant understand why Neowin would do such an evil thing and that their comments are NEVER taken in to consideration.

Ultimatly, i have learnt over time that nothing fundimentally changes on Neowin. Yes we get nice features added and we get a lot of free things that the staff on Neowin really dont need to do, but choose to out of sheer kindness and to make Neowin better, but the basis for Neowin never changes. It is and always has been a tech site with loads of news and other topics for its members to explore and enjoy.

To those of you moaning, i really would like to remind you that it means nothing. Any change on Neowin will ultimatly have little impact on you or your online life with Neowin. Its a small change and will result in nothing effecting you. If you dont like something, dont use it. If it ends up getting abused, then the staff will take it away. You need to remeber that the staff on here are always fair and will always back track something if it turns out to be abused or not like they hoped!

Grand Master

Ji@nBing

Posted
Posted

What exactly is the problem? I really don't get why this was disabled. I frequent several forums that use this feature and it's not a problem at any of them. It's actually quite useful. Sure, it's abused sometimes, but who cares? This reminds me of political correctness. Just ban everything because there are a few jackasses in the world. You do stuff like this, and you're just letting the jackasses win.

Grand Master

Colin-uk Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted

?What exactly is the problem? I really don't get why this was disabled. I frequent several forums that use this feature and it's not a problem at any of them. It's actually quite useful. Sure, it's abused sometimes, but who cares? This reminds me of political correctness. Just ban everything because there are a few jackasses in the world. You do stuff like this, and you're just letting the jackasses win.?

It was attracting more abuse than actual usefulness.

we dont want that.

Proficient

HeretikSaint

Posted
Posted

It was attracting more abuse than actual usefulness.

we dont want that.

Not to mention that I would get more people replying to my post and posting "+1" without actually giving me a rep point. I didn't understand the point of that. It just shows that people would rather show that they agree with the post by posting instead of giving someone an anonymous rep point. I'm somewhat disappointed with the removal of the rep system but I understand why it was removed. It seems a lot of forums are beginning to abandon their rep systems due to constant abuse.

Grand Master

markwolfe Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted

I don't get why it was removed (save your arguments), or why people are even arguing about it. Sure it was kind of nice to have, but it didn't really add anything to the forums.

Niiiice! A question and an answer in the same post! :cool:

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